Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

Arrival · 20-06-2018 09:00PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/study-proves-cannabis-can-lead-to-psychosis-36917630.html

The hysterical ‘well what about booze’ is the stoners default argument as well. Some losers are going to smoke weed every day anyway, so legalise away. But stop pretending that the drug is not a dirty, dangerous, demotivating substance that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking creatures.

Cannabis can not cause these mental health issues, it basically triggers them in people who had latent mental health issues. These are a minority. The huge majority of cannabis users and people who would try cannabis upon legalisation would suffer no such negative effects, so how about we act in the interests of the majority instead of pandering to a minority for an argument?

Furthermore, you'll see it in part of this video, there is a strong correlation between prohibition and the strength of the available strains of cannabis. The criminals involved in the cannabis industry are not required to follow and laws or regulations and are risking a lot and so they develop the strongest strains of cannabis they possibly can, with maximum THC levels and minimum CBD levels. With legalisation and suitable regulation, harmful strains of cannabis could be made a thing of the past and consumers would be able to enter a dispensary and choose to buy a nice, gentle strain of cannabis with the effects they wish to experience. It's not too dissimilar to choosing the alcohol you wish to consume when you enter an off license; if you want a few cans in the evening after work to just relax you can easily do this and choose them according to their % vol. or you could pick up a bottle of hard liquor and get langers after a few quick drinks (this is basically the only option available to cannabis consumers currently as they can't choose their strains, they take whatever their criminal dealer happens to have available). There is SO much misinformation and ignorance on this topic. It's time to allow adults to make informed decisions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP15q815Saw

the_syco · 20-06-2018 09:01PM

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I still can't find the answer to the question "why was it ever banned in the first place?"

Paper.

Samuel T. Cogley · 20-06-2018 09:02PM

Probably become legal with a full public smoking ban. Smokers are smelly bastards but cannabis smokers are in a different fecking league entirely.

the_syco · 20-06-2018 09:06PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

I agree that, like all drugs, it affects people in different ways. Alcohol causes black-outs, aggressiveness, psychosis and schizophrenia, but all of these are often ignored as it doesn't harm the majority of people, and the alcohol industry is fairly powerful.

wexie · 20-06-2018 09:10PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

And I would imagine that said psychiatrist more likely than not was very careful to point out the impact cannabis may have on the developing brain.

Which is precisely why, if it does get legalized, it will still not be legalized for teenagers.

Benteke · 20-06-2018 09:13PM

wexie wrote: »

And I would imagine that said psychiatrist more likely than not was very careful to point out the impact cannabis may have on the developing brain.

Which is precisely why, if it does get legalized, it will still not be legalized for teenagers.

He also mentioned people are not buying what they think they're buying, Drug dealers contaminate their product to maximise profits, That would not happen if legilised

Samuel T. Cogley · 20-06-2018 09:25PM

Benteke wrote: »

He also mentioned people are not buying what they think they're buying, Drug dealers contaminate their product to maximise profits, That would not happen if legilised

Aye because the cigarette industry is beyond reproach.

buried · 20-06-2018 09:31PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Aye because the cigarette industry is beyond reproach.

Well then shout and fight to make their product illegal then? Ban the cigs, why legitimise one and not the other?

Pauliedragon · 20-06-2018 09:36PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Probably become legal with a full public smoking ban. Smokers are smelly bastards but cannabis smokers are in a different fecking league entirely.

You don't have to smoke it. I used to get belted on the stuff without ever inhaling anything.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 20-06-2018 09:42PM

seamus wrote: »

The medicinal uses are very overhyped tbh.

You didn't have any evidence at the time you typed this, did you Seamus? There's a plethora of anecdotal evidence online which is quite overwhelming to be honest. It seems to be very effective for some people dealing with epilepsy. For others it's chronic pain, depression, insomnia, anxiety (this one surprised me), stress etc etc.

All the social media articles would have you believe that it's a wonder drug, when realistically very few proper studies have confirmed any medicinal use.

It's only been used for thousands of years. Why do we need more "proper" reports? What's the minimum number of "proper" reports one needs in order for the information to be trusted?

That's not to say I'm against legalisation, but be honest about the fact that you just want to get high, don't use pop science and anecdotes to pretend you're looking for medicine. You're not, you're looking to get off your tits. And that's fine.

Some people want to get high, others want to medicate. As it's still illegal, saying you want to get messed up may not be the best way to accomplish your goals

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/study-proves-cannabis-can-lead-to-psychosis-36917630.html

The hysterical ‘well what about booze’ is the stoners default argument as well. Some losers are going to smoke weed every day anyway, so legalise away.

But stop pretending that the drug is not a dirty, dangerous, demotivating substance that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking creatures.[/QUOTE]

Well, how can you possibly support one drug and discredit another, and then promote another drug which is more harmful than the two combined?

What makes you say that cannabis is "dirty, dangerous and demotivating that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking?" Stuck in your 'aul ways are you? No idea where "dirty" comes from, but you could make an argument about the dangers of the drug, but the rest of your statement is just so out of sync with reality. This approach tends to come from those who listen to Jim and Mary down the local talking about their neighbor who OD'd on the devils lettuce and was a victim of the "reefer madness". "Them weed smokers would rob the eyes out of your head to feed their habit..." Your views are outdated, and it's very unfortunate that those who are less likely to be brain washed by the parish priest need the older, more ignorant generations to kick the bucket before we can see some proper change. What's really hysterical here is your statement, and the irony will be completely lost on you.

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why, when there is a huge campaign underway to deter people from smoking cigarettes, would you legalise another dangerous drug. It's baffling. And the alleged medical benefits are greatly over hyped.

Tobacco is substantially more dangerous than marijuana. There are multiple ways to ingest marijuana which are very safe (Oil, vaping, edibles) and are nothing in comparison to the dangers of other drugs, widely available to the public.

Have any evidence to back up your "over hyped" statement? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?

wexie · 20-06-2018 09:46PM

Adriel Teeny Furnace wrote: »

butane?! :eek:

like cooking sausages on the BBQ butane?

Potential-Monke · 20-06-2018 09:48PM

I'm surprised to see Cannabis so high on that list (and laughing so hard that shrooms, LSD and MDMA are so low!). What was the 'harm' they're talking about in that picture?

wexie wrote: »

butane?! :eek:

like cooking sausages on the BBQ butane?

They inhale it to get the high, like petrol but stronger!

wexie · 20-06-2018 09:51PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm surprised to see Cannabis so high on that list (and laughing so hard that shrooms, LSD and MDMA are so low!). What was the 'harm' they're talking about in that picture?

I suspect perhaps (from that graphic) that they're talking overall harm, as in if the occurrence of use is higher it causes more harm.

Doesn't seem to be listed in a way of 'how harmful is this drug for you'

Arrival · 20-06-2018 09:52PM

wexie wrote: »

There's a study being done in Dublin on the use of ketamine in depression, some interesting (and very promising) work being done with psilocybin as well in London.

But it's all just in it's infancy from what I gather

Ketamine is already being successfully used in clinics in New York to treat mental health issues, many things I've read about that drug seem seriously impressive. But again, people's stupidity prevents them from disregarding their bias and looking at these things objectively. You can tell someone has bad critical thinking skills when it comes to the topic of drug legalisation.

Dempsey · 20-06-2018 10:05PM

I think Cannabis should be legal here and it should of happened here a long time ago

Between the tax take, taking money out of organized crime, freeing up policing/legal/prison systems/resources, investment/improvement in health services as a result offers far more positives to irish society than negatives

In 20 years time, we will be wondering why we were so resistant

buried · 20-06-2018 10:09PM

Surely some strains of the plant itself would thrive off the long daylight hours and temperate climate that the island of Ireland gets in the summer? There could be serious money to be made with the agricultural landscape that covers near 95% of the country.

quintana76 · 20-06-2018 10:19PM

Chewbacca wrote: »

I know man, tbats what I was going for. I need to start using smileys.

No objection generally. Only objection is that over the years it has been designed to be a stronger drug than it used to be. It can now mess people up. The good thing is choice can be involved as to strength. I hear about blank packaging in Canada. Punters need to know.

seamus · 20-06-2018 10:24PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I really can't see any positives to it for those who don't smoke themselves.

Your money won't be wasted chasing and prosecuting people for trading in a relatively harmless substance.

Adriel Teeny Furnace wrote: »

You didn't have any evidence at the time you typed this, did you Seamus? There's a plethora of anecdotal evidence online which is quite overwhelming to be honest. It seems to be very effective for some people dealing with epilepsy. For others it's chronic pain, depression, insomnia, anxiety (this one surprised me), stress etc etc.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. There are people who claim drinking bleach cures their IBS. That taking a drop of water that's had some ritual performed on it can take away all sorts of diseases.

Medicine doesn't work because, "lots of people swear it works for them". It works because we test the living fnck out of it to find out what actually works and throw away the sh1t that doesn't.

I understanding what you're saying about proving cannabis's worth with a legitimate use that isn't just getting high off your ass. But that's the long road. That's years of clinical trials. A number of limited cases have been allowed to take CBD oil and various products, but that's mostly public and political pressure rather than any raw proof that it's generally effective.

The easy road is just legalising it. Stop trying to jump through hoops, creatively interpret trial results and gather meaningless anecdotes so you can prove it's useful for another purpose that you don't want it for. It's about as harmful as alcohol, it's less addictive, and it lets people get a little off their head like most of us enjoy doing every now again with our substance of choice. So stop wasting my money clamping down on it.

freddie1970 · 20-06-2018 10:30PM

A friend of my girlfriend has a husband who does abuse cannabis he sits at home all day smoking and playing playstation ..a waster...
she was saying look how how harmful it is ..
Then i said to her alright imagine he was an alcoholic getting pissed everyday ..would it be worse ..and yes she agreed it would ...the cost would be much more ...more likely to be aggressive ..much more risk taking behaviour ..
Alcohol is the drug that causes nearly all the problems we have in society ..

freddie1970 · 20-06-2018 10:34PM

Im a father myself and my main worry would be my son getting drunk or getting attacked by someone off their head drunk ...him getting attacked by someone stoned is not a worry believe me

Yamanoto · 20-06-2018 10:38PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cannabis is an extremely dangerous drug. The top psychiatrist in Ireland was on the radio recently talking about the epidemic of young men presenting to mental health services with life changing psychosis and schizophrenia. Nearly all young men, many from small rural towns, all completely ruined by ‘innocent’ cannabis.

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/study-proves-cannabis-can-lead-to-psychosis-36917630.html

The hysterical ‘well what about booze’ is the stoners default argument as well. Some losers are going to smoke weed every day anyway, so legalise away. But stop pretending that the drug is not a dirty, dangerous, demotivating substance that makes regular users pathetic and sickly looking creatures.

Whole heap of FlutterinBantam about that post.

AndyBoBandy · 20-06-2018 10:45PM

freddie1970 wrote: »

A friend of my girlfriend has a husband who does abuse cannabis he sits at home all day smoking and playing playstation ..a waster...

No, he’s just a lazy waster. Full Stop. The cannabis didn’t make him that way.

Someone doesn’t punch their wife and blame it on having 12 pints of beer making them do it. They were already a scumbag, and the beer might have merely brought their scummy behaviour to the fore, but certainly not caused them to become a scumbag. That’s something that they had all by themselves.

Brian? · 20-06-2018 10:46PM

Prohibition against any drugs is a nonsense idea to me. It’s the very essence of nanny statism. It makes even less sense when you selectively choose which drugs are legal.

Legalize them all. Take the enourmous cash flow out of the hands of dangerous criminals. Free up Garda resources. Spend the money saved on enforcement and the new revenue from taxes on education on the dangers of drugs and rehabilitation for those with serious drug habits.

Some people can drink once a week and be grand. Some people are alcoholics. Other drugs are the same. Most drug addicts are self medicating to numb pain, mostly psychological pain that they haven’t dealt with. The drugs aren’t actually the problem, they’re a symptom.

freddie1970 · 20-06-2018 10:47PM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

No, he’s just a lazy waster. Full Stop. The cannabis didn’t make him that way.

Someone doesn’t punch their wife and blame it on having 12 pints of beer making them do it. They were already a scumbag, and the beer might have merely brought their scummy behaviour to the fore, but certainly not caused them to become a scumbag. That’s something that they had all by themselves.

yes i agree with u he is a lazy waster ..but i feel over indulging in booze carries more problems than over indulging in cannabis ...

Atlantic Dawn · 20-06-2018 10:49PM

It's certainly time for a referendum on it for medicinal use.

Brian? · 20-06-2018 10:54PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's certainly time for a referendum on it for medicinal use.

We don’t need a referendum. There’s no constitutional ban.

kevinandrewz · 20-06-2018 10:59PM

Look it's not that complicated, realistically what do you think is better give two options a unregulated market or a regulated market. It's obvious, weed isn't illegal cos its dangerous its illegal due to the fact many players in society stand to gain from it being illegal big tobacco/pharma & alcohol, court system lawyers gov etc and multi national corporations who would have competition if weed/hemp was made legal. Most if not all drugs should be legalized as people should have the right to choose their own freedoms rather than have someone else tell them what they can or cannot do with their bodies. Why should you dictate to another person what they can and cant do with their own self if it does not harm anyone else, if a guy wants to smoke weed that is his business and no ones else. Why should any government have the power to interfere in someones else own life and personal choices. Making cannabis etc illegal does more harm than good, you are just allowing violent cartels to have a monopoly over a product in which they have no morals and are liable to do anything they wish in the process. Why isn't alcohol, cigarettes and fast food banned as well they are very harmful too we must ought not to have obese people who are addicted to McDonald's it will cause them numerous problems later in life, by the same standards they should be arrested due to the fact they are damaging their own bodies and are addicted to a harmful substance. If you believe in choice, freedom and individual responsibility for ones own action it makes zero sense to have a plant made illegal but ideally any government doesn't want you growing a plant in your back garden cos it would lose tax revenue and hurt big corporation pockets.
youtube(dot com) /watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

HappyAsLarE · 20-06-2018 11:01PM

Easy to spot the potheads from the posts on this thread.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 20-06-2018 11:07PM

seamus wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. There are people who claim drinking bleach cures their IBS. That taking a drop of water that's had some ritual performed on it can take away all sorts of diseases.

Medicine doesn't work because, "lots of people swear it works for them". It works because we test the living fnck out of it to find out what actually works and throw away the sh1t that doesn't.

I understanding what you're saying about proving cannabis's worth with a legitimate use that isn't just getting high off your ass. But that's the long road. That's years of clinical trials. A number of limited cases have been allowed to take CBD oil and various products, but that's mostly public and political pressure rather than any raw proof that it's generally effective.

The easy road is just legalising it. Stop trying to jump through hoops, creatively interpret trial results and gather meaningless anecdotes so you can prove it's useful for another purpose that you don't want it for. It's about as harmful as alcohol, it's less addictive, and it lets people get a little off their head like most of us enjoy doing every now again with our substance of choice. So stop wasting my money clamping down on it.

Anecdotal evidence is actual evidence, it's just not the evidence you are after.

Do the research yourself, see what it does for people? Or don't, and remain ignorant. That's your choice.

kevinandrewz · 20-06-2018 11:12PM

You shouldn't really jump to conclusions I have never actually smoked it or cigarettes. Why would you care what an other person consumes once it doesn't affect you. If a guy wants to smokes his brains out and drink alcohol till the cows come that's his choice but I wont partake in such activity. How is alcohol allowed to be even advertised when its one of the most dangerous drugs out there it doesn't make sense. You wouldn't allow your local coke dealer to take out ads in a newspaper and why would you allow a retailer to post 'Paddy's day deals' on xyz

Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

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