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Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

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Comments

  • #4772
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Absolutely. And obviously. Do you and El Dude think I'm being literal? I'm just saying that it comes down ask permission, then listen to the answer. Generally a good rule for doing anything that involves another person or their property.

    Oh no. I think you’ve sarcastically described a way it doesn’t happen, then assumed you’ve described exactly how it happens.

    I don’t have any confidence you know what you’re talking about.


  • #4773
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Sexual consent is all about inferences. Rarely if ever do people ask for sexual consent. It's just not reality.

    Consent is more often than not conveyed rather than verbally given, which is of course why it's so frustrating listening to people suggesting (/ making laws) that say someone must have been given a verbal 'Yes' otherwise they have committed rape.

    This is why the Cup of Tea analogy was so ridiculous a few years back.

    If someone has reasonably inferred that they have consent (and the person is not in a state which would render them legally incapable of giving it) then they are having consensual sex.

    It’s “all about inference’ that’s not so clear cut all of a sudden.

    So Is everyone still agreed LON is stooopid for wanting to actually add to the discussion about consent?


  • #4774
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It’s “all about inference’ that’s not so clear cut all of a sudden.

    So Is everyone still agreed LON is stooopid for wanting to actually add to the discussion about consent?

    I think stooopid in the way she goes about it outside of her fictional works


  • #4775
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Deleted User wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It’s “all about inference’ that’s not so clear cut all of a sudden.

    So Is everyone still agreed LON is stooopid for wanting to actually add to the discussion about consent?

    I think stooopid in the way she goes about it outside of her fictional works

    But it’s actually quite a worthwhile discussion and she’s an active part of that discussion. Might be a bit difficult to admit that after all the guff spouted about her in this thread


  • #4776
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Oh no. I think you’ve sarcastically described a way it doesn’t happen, then assumed you’ve described exactly how it happens.

    I don’t have any confidence you know what you’re talking about.

    I'm talking about consent classes for adults. They're BS. Its simple: if you have permission then go for it. If you don't have permission, stop. Any adult that can't understand that is a asshole.

    Now if you are talking consent classes as part of a comprehensive sex education program that should begin in primary school, then yes that's a good thing.


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  • #4777
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    So Is everyone still agreed LON is stooopid for wanting to actually add to the discussion about consent?

    In her own words, we have a rape culture here in Ireland. I wouldn't want my children being educated or taking pointers from someone who holds that opinion.


  • #4778
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,879 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    But it’s actually quite a worthwhile discussion and she’s an active part of that discussion. Might be a bit difficult to admit that after all the guff spouted about her in this thread

    Active part of the discussion...or using certain events to further her own agenda more like. Screaming in a cottage because of some BS claim about a facebook page sharing nudes...that was found to not exist after a thorough investigation.

    Using the Belfast case to promote her book after a verdict was reached, in a country with a judicial system that's nothing like the republic.
    Screaming about 'privilege' then ignoring incidents where women are targeted or violently and horrifically raped by people who don't 'fit her agenda'...

    Lon isn't a part of 'the discussion'-O'Neill is using horrific events to further her profile, sell her wares, and increase her bank balance.

    Profiteering from ideological propaganda, while actually ignoring genuine issues. She's a misery merchant.


  • #4779
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Sigh.
    Another thread ruined.


    WifPHr


  • #4780
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It’s “all about inference’ that’s not so clear cut all of a sudden.

    What are you on about "all of a sudden". It's been discussed to death on the site.

    The last LON thread just one example.

    Also, the only ones saying it's "clear cut" are those that say it's rape if a verbal Yes hasn't been received.
    So Is everyone still agreed LON is stooopid for wanting to actually add to the discussion about consent?

    You're making a strawman argument. Nobody said she was stoopid for wanting to discuss consent. What people take issue with is her trying to push the notion that we live in a rape culture.


  • #4781
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Nobody said she was stoopid for wanting to discuss consent. ..
    He knows dude. He knows.


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  • #4782
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,879 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    Zulu wrote: »
    Sigh.
    Another thread ruined.


    WifPHr

    I'm sorry if I contributed to it.


  • #4783
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    I'm talking about consent classes for adults. They're BS. Its simple: if you have permission then go for it. If you don't have permission, stop. Any adult that can't understand that is a asshole.

    Now if you are talking consent classes as part of a comprehensive sex education program that should begin in primary school, then yes that's a good thing.

    Hold your horses. ‘ If you don't have permission, stop. Any adult that can't understand that is a asshole’ how exactly do you know if you have permission or not?

    The most explicit way is to simply check verbally. The other poster said it’s ‘all about inference’ and body language. Some people don’t get inference and body language it’s a common symptom of autism spectrum disorders. Are those people assholes in you opinion?

    I am talking about consent classes for children, but I also think it’s important for adults to discuss it. Why on earth would anyone say it’s a good idea for children to learn about it but not a good idea for adults to discuss it?

    I suppose this is all just ‘fluffy language’ since you summed it all up in your pithy post earlier.


  • #4784
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Zulu wrote: »
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Nobody said she was stoopid for wanting to discuss consent. ..
    He knows dude. He knows.
    How’s ignoring me going for you? You just can’t quit me Zulu. Ha ha.


  • #4785
    the purple tin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    LouLou is appearing on desert island discs next week. Here's a sneak peek at her choices...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcrppevM46Q



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25_jgiY51I



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqdErI9uss


  • #4786
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Hold your horses. ‘ If you don't have permission, stop. Any adult that can't understand that is a asshole’ how exactly do you know if you have permission or not?

    I believe the best way is to Tweet LON. Ask her if you have permission.


  • #4787
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »
    I'm sorry if I contributed to it.

    That’s ok tap out any time you need to

    But lots of other people aren’t finished talking about it. LON isn’t sorry she’s contributing to it and she probably going to continue contributing to it. If men don’t contribute to the discussion then that’s fine. The discussion will go on regardless, tings will change and men will wonder why the world is changing and they don’t understand it.

    Naturally, he choice is yours.


  • #4788
    givyjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    But it’s actually quite a worthwhile discussion and she’s an active part of that discussion. Might be a bit difficult to admit that after all the guff spouted about her in this thread

    Ha, you're one to talk about guff. You spray your nonsense over every single thread you're in.


  • #4789
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Hold your horses. ‘ If you don't have permission, stop. Any adult that can't understand that is a asshole’ how exactly do you know if you have permission or not?

    I believe the best way is to Tweet LON. Ask her if you have permission.

    That’s grand. There’s a real discussion about this stuff happening out there. You seem to think you have it all sussed to the extent that you only seem to discuss it in sarcasm. As I said earlier, I don’t have any confidence that you have a clue what you’re talking about.


  • #4790
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    I just got invited to see this play at the weekend. My friend is involved in the production. May even get to meet the lovely lady herself :pac:
    I’m thinking of excuses as we speak.


  • #4791
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    givyjoe wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    But it’s actually quite a worthwhile discussion and she’s an active part of that discussion. Might be a bit difficult to admit that after all the guff spouted about her in this thread

    Ha, you're one to talk about guff. You spray your nonsense over every single thread you're in.

    It’s just a chat. Geez. Take it easy.

    You don’t have to take party if you don’t have anything to contribute. If you have something to contribute, it might be interesting to hear it.


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  • #4792
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,879 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    That’s ok tap out any time you need to

    But lots of other people aren’t finished talking about it. LON isn’t sorry she’s contributing to it and she probably going to continue contributing to it. If men don’t contribute to the discussion then that’s fine. The discussion will go on regardless, tings will change and men will wonder why the world is changing and they don’t understand it.

    Naturally, he choice is yours.

    I was responding to Zulu-I'm not tapping out.


  • #4793
    Diana Warm Litter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭ Diana Warm Litter


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I just got invited to see this play at the weekend. My friend is involved in the production. May even get to meet the lovely lady herself :pac:
    I’m thinking of excuses as we speak.

    would be amusing to see how insufferable she is...heard stories of her being difficult


  • #4794
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I just got invited to see this play at the weekend. My friend is involved in the production. May even get to meet the lovely lady herself :pac:
    I’m thinking of excuses as we speak.

    Periscope it!





    I mean the LON meeting, not the play :P


  • #4795
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,879 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »
    would be amusing to see how insufferable she is...heard stories of her being difficult

    Yeah, you can get the inside scoop.

    And of course she can difficult-her mam tried to feed her her mushy peas at the weekend. She threw a right strop, pulled off the bib-threw her plastic bowl on the ground...

    Apparently airplane's trigger her.


  • #4796
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I just got invited to see this play at the weekend. My friend is involved in the production. May even get to meet the lovely lady herself :pac:
    I’m thinking of excuses as we speak.

    Oh no. Go and report back! The regulars will dine out on a bad review for weeks!


  • #4797
    givyjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It’s just a chat. Geez. Take it easy.

    You don’t have to take party if you don’t have anything to contribute. If you have something to contribute, it might be interesting to hear it.

    Despite your endless pontificating, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone credible who believes your posts contribute anything. Apologies if I hurt your feelings.


  • #4798
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

    I was responding to Zulu-I'm not tapping out.

    Delighted to hear it. The conversation is happening whether or not men take an active part. Better that men stay engaged and shape the discussion


  • #4799
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,537 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    givyjoe wrote: »
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It’s just a chat. Geez. Take it easy.

    You don’t have to take party if you don’t have anything to contribute. If you have something to contribute, it might be interesting to hear it.

    Despite your endless pontificating, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone credible who believes your posts contribute anything. Apologies if I hurt your feelings.

    Thanks brah. No hurt feelings. Like I said, if you have something to contribute it might be interesting to hear it. If you can’t contribute, feel free to lob an insult or 2 and retreat.

    It’s actually an interesting topic of discussion.


  • #4800
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    retro:electro wrote: »
    I just got invited to see this play at the weekend. My friend is involved in the production. May even get to meet the lovely lady herself :pac:
    I’m thinking of excuses as we speak.


    take one for the team and go. if you do meet her ask does she not feel anyway guilty having her mother run around after her


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  • #4801
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Sexual consent is all about inferences. Rarely if ever do people ask for sexual consent. It's just not reality.

    Consent is more often than not conveyed rather than verbally given, which is of course why it's so frustrating listening to people suggesting (/ making laws) that say someone must have been given a verbal 'Yes' otherwise they have committed rape.

    This is why the Cup of Tea analogy was so ridiculous a few years back.

    If someone has reasonably inferred that they have consent (and the person is not in a state which would render them legally incapable of giving it) then they are having consensual sex.

    The danger is the flexibility that "withdrawal of consent" is being applied. While people are suggesting that consent should be verbally given (which as you said isn't done that often, and perhaps only with a stranger), withdrawal of consent can be verbal, non-verbal, or after the event.

    This is why consent is becoming such a thorny issue. It isn't so much about when consent is actually being given, but when it is being withdrawn, or breaking down into parts what consent was given. She gave consent for oral sex but not for penetrative sex, and yet, no verbal rejection or objection was given until after the fact. etc. These kind of examples are becoming more common as real life cases, rather than bizarre examples on a discussion board.


This discussion has been closed.
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