Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

jm08 · 10-06-2018 12:19PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

http://www.secondcaptains.com/2018/02/09/episode-1083-donnacha-ryan-life-paris-life-rugby-sexton-schmidts-secret-sauce-ken-v-caesar-eddie-jones-pokes-dragon/

''In the end,'' he wasn't disappointed. That suggests he was disappointed initially. He just got on with it and is making the best of it.

http://www.offtheball.com/Off-The-Ball/Jesus-youd-love-to-stay-and-keep-playing-forever--Donnacha-Ryan-on-leaving-Munster-for-Racing-92

irishbucsfan · 10-06-2018 12:21PM

jm08 wrote: »

''In the end,'' he wasn't disappointed. That suggests he was disappointed initially. He just got on with it and is making the best of it.

http://www.offtheball.com/Off-The-Ball/Jesus-youd-love-to-stay-and-keep-playing-forever--Donnacha-Ryan-on-leaving-Munster-for-Racing-92

It was nothing to do with the contracts.

You know you're way off the deep end when they guys' own words aren't enough. The victimhood is so strong that you won't even listen to the guys own reasoning.

jm08 · 10-06-2018 12:30PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It was nothing to do with the contracts.

You know you're way off the deep end when they guys' own words aren't enough. The victimhood is so strong that you won't even listen to the guys own reasoning.

Its obvious to me that there was no ''financial difference''*. The difference was that he had no future with Ireland as he wasn't offered a new central contract like Heaslip & Toner.

*Munster (not Ireland) made him the same financial offer as Racing.

And please, give over with this ''victimhood'' narrative.

awec · 10-06-2018 12:32PM

Jermaine Big Barium wrote: »

The 6N.

Indeed, but there is a big difference between saying it's not must win and being ok with a series loss.

The target has to be to win the series.

Burkie1203 · 10-06-2018 12:34PM

jm08 wrote: »

Its obvious to me that there was no ''financial difference''*. The difference was that he had no future with Ireland as he wasn't offered a new central contract like Heaslip & Toner.

*Munster (not Ireland) made him the same financial offer as Racing.

And please, give over with this ''victimhood'' narrative.

What has heaslip and toner got to do with it.
They wanted to stay. They stayed. Why do they get dragged into a conversation of which they were not a part of.

Ryan and Zebo wanted to go. They left. Zebo has gone on record as saying he doesn't want to play the way Joe wanted him to play. Maybe the difficulty was with Zebo and not the IRFU/Joe.

thomond2006 · 10-06-2018 12:35PM

Donnacha Ryan doesn't play for Ireland anymore.

awec · 10-06-2018 12:36PM

This conversation about Donnacha Ryan is beyond boring at this stage. Give over everyone.

Burkie1203 · 10-06-2018 12:37PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

Team for next week:
Kearney
Earls
Ringrose
Henshaw
Stockdale
Sexton
Murray
Healy
Herring
Furlong
Ryan
Henderson
POM
Leavy
Conan

Would like to see Conway, Larmour Stockdale back 3.

Henshaw and Ringrose in the centre outside Sexton with Cooney maybe at 9

We need to see Conan at 8 a few tests too.

Dubinusa · 10-06-2018 12:38PM

I'd like to see Ross Byrne get some game time. See what he can do. I think Marmion should start a game also. He's quicker off the rucks than Murray, may create more openings.
Conway should get a run also, maybe at fb. Pity VDF is hurt, cos these high paced teams would really suit his playing style.

shootermacg · 10-06-2018 12:40PM

awec wrote: »

The target has to be to win the series.

No the target should be..... to further your own concerns against one of the best teams in the world with a view to giving us the best chance in the world cup.

You would like to go back to the old days of starting one lucky player on the bench vs Italy? And subsequently bemoaning the lack of squad depth when we're down a few players?

shootermacg · 10-06-2018 12:44PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

I'd like to see Ross Byrne get some game time.

I'd like to see this too, although I don't know if he would have done any better that Carbery tbh. That was a very tough test match.

ScissorPaperRock · 10-06-2018 01:04PM

A game like yesterday's would certainly be a baptism by fire for Ross Byrne in his first test

Exclamation Marc · 10-06-2018 01:15PM

I fully expect Cronin will start next week. Herring had a good outing but think Joe will give Cronin a start alongside Healy and Furlong.

10-06-2018 01:41PM

jm08 wrote: »

My understanding is that he wasn't offered an IRFU central contract and from that Ryan got the message that unlike Heaslip he was surplus to requirements with Ireland (despite starting the game v. ABs in Chicago with Toner on the bench who did get a central contract).

Zebo knew that his days with Ireland were limited as Schmidt didn't/does not rate him, so pointless sticking around. As far as I can recall, he was refused a central contract which meant that he was completely dependent on probably injuries to Rob Kearney to get any starts for Ireland (and hence his earning income was much depleted).

There is reason why Zebo & Ryan left - they knew they had no future with Ireland which is what keeps most of the best players here.

I do enjoy reading your posts

stephen_n · 10-06-2018 02:42PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The game passed Carbery by quite a bit, I'm holding off judgement until we see Sexton in there. Hopefully with himself Henshaw/Ringrose we'll be a bit more aggressive in our use of the ball.

In fairness to Carbery he wasn’t getting a great deal to work with, Australia were effective at slowing our ruck ball and we were making that much headway with our ball carriers.

RoundBox11 · 10-06-2018 02:56PM

I thought Carbery had a good game. He was under huge pressure from such a fast Australian defense. For a 22 year old, he held his nerve well.
I'm hoping Ringrose will make a big difference next week because Henshaw looked completely at sea at times defending the 13 channel. That miss on Beale around the 19 minute mark was awful.

I'd like to see Cronin, Leavy and Furlong to start in the pack with Beirne and Toner on the bench. Conan just looks out of his depth, even when he's coming off the bench.

sydthebeat · 10-06-2018 03:07PM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I thought Carbery had a good game. He was under huge pressure from such a fast Australian defense. For a 22 year old, he held his nerve well.
I'm hoping Ringrose will make a big difference next week because Henshaw looked completely at sea at times defending the 13 channel. That miss on Beale around the 19 minute mark was awful.

I'd like to see Cronin, Leavy and Furlong to start in the pack with Beirne and Toner on the bench. Conan just looks out of his depth, even when he's coming off the bench.

Conan was very good for the minutes he was on the pitch, not out of his depth at all.

RoundBox11 · 10-06-2018 03:10PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Conan was very good for the minutes he was on the pitch, not out of his depth at all.

I've been quite unimpressed with him lately, as a leinster fan, even with my blue tinted glasses.

Squidgy Black · 10-06-2018 03:12PM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I've been quite unimpressed with him lately, as a leinster fan, even with my blue tinted glasses.

What? Conan has been playing some of his best rugby lately, I don't know what games you've been watching....

10-06-2018 03:13PM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I've been quite unimpressed with him lately, as a leinster fan, even with my blue tinted glasses.

Are you for real? Made a huge impact in the Euro cup final and then put in excellent performances in the Pro14 knockouts.

Buer · 10-06-2018 03:56PM

I'm not a huge Conan fan due to areas of his game being lacking, I feel.

But he has been superb for Leinster over the last month. I don't know how anyone could think he was anything below very good.

awec · 10-06-2018 04:43PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

Team for next week:
Kearney
Earls
Ringrose
Henshaw
Stockdale
Sexton
Murray
Healy
Herring
Furlong
Ryan
Henderson
POM
Leavy
Conan

I think Toner or Beirne will take Ryan's place.

AbusesToilets · 10-06-2018 05:03PM

awec wrote: »

Agree with all of this. Our attack is fairly limited, always has been the weakest facet of our game under Schmidt, and we struggle to adapt during a game to what’s in front of us if it isn’t working.

For whatever reason, if it hasn’t been solved by now then it’s unlikely to be solved.

Next week is very significant in my opinion. Another defeat in the same manner will not look good, in fact it would be pretty concerning. That’s the interesting thing about these tours, playing the same team three times in a row is a very different prospect to any of our other series of games.

Still think a series win must be the goal here. Still quietly confident we’ll get the win next week.

I'd be interested to see a comparison between Ireland and Leinster's attacking shape. Different levels etc but my impression is that Leinster due a much better job of emphasizing support runners and attacking options than Ireland do.

AbusesToilets · 10-06-2018 05:06PM

Buer wrote: »

I'm not a huge Conan fan due to areas of his game being lacking, I feel.

But he has been superb for Leinster over the last month. I don't know how anyone could think he was anything below very good.

Paired with other options who are better on the ground, he's excellent in link play. Possibly the best ball in hand backrow we have at the minute.

shootermacg · 10-06-2018 07:30PM

I have a feeling that we'll win the next game.

Former Former · 10-06-2018 07:42PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd be interested to see a comparison between Ireland and Leinster's attacking shape. Different levels etc but my impression is that Leinster due a much better job of emphasizing support runners and attacking options than Ireland do.

Things like that take time. Leinster have continuity that Ireland don't (and we saw what happened Leinster when they had to field patched up teams late in the season).

Yesterday was the first game after a brief enough build up as a squad, with an out half making his first meaningful start. It was always going to be a bit stuttery.

That said, the midfield combo isn't working. I'd expect to see Ringrose play the next two games with the other lads playing one each inside him.

Chex LeMeneux · 10-06-2018 08:46PM

Wonder what people's opinions on the centre partnership for next week are? Aki was poor to get caught in possession for the second Aussie try but I think he was our highest ball carrier and lead tackler in the backs. On the other hand thought Henshaw had two poor defensive decisions one leading to a try and one almost leading to one. I think Ringrose at 13 has to come in from an attacking/creative POV at least but I think I would go with Aki at 12 as I think he had the better game overall on Saturday (my obvious Connacht bias not withstanding!!).

irishbucsfan · 10-06-2018 08:48PM

I think Henshaw is guaranteed to start. He's on another level athletically and in terms of this work rate. So I think it just depends whether Joe wants to see Ringrose or Aki.

Dog Botherer · 10-06-2018 08:53PM

Have a sneaking suspicion we'll see Sexton and Marmion start next week. Murray didn't have a great game and gave away that stupid penalty for mouthing off resulting in Schmidt hooking him immediately. Might need to ride the pine for a bit to get his head right, and Marmion is more than capable of stepping up.

Chex LeMeneux · 10-06-2018 08:57PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Henshaw is guaranteed to start. He's on another level athletically and in terms of this work rate. So I think it just depends whether Joe wants to see Ringrose or Aki.

Think to get the best out of Aki he needs to play at 13. I'm not saying that he's the best 13 for Ireland but I think his skillsets (offloads/footwork/defence) suit 13 more than 12. His weakness (IMO distribution) is highlighted at 12. I'm not sure if he has got a proper go at 13 for Ireland. Some of his best performances for Connacht (obviously a good few steps below international- but even in ECC v Toulouse 2016/17 for example) have come at 13. Think Joe might see him as a crash ball merchant but think he is a little more nuanced than that. It's unlikely to happen before one of the AIs (Italy or Argentina maybe) but perhaps worthy of consideration.

Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

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