Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

Edna_Ennky wrote: »

I was under the impression that in relation to point two that Ryan wanted to remain with Munster. But as you said that if Ryan wanted to leave then fair enough. However the opinion that I still believe to be the case today that the IRFU prioritized keeping Jamie Heaslip in these shores and did not go the extra mile to keep Ryan in Ireland. That is my opinion and I look forward to hearing what views people have on this issue.

There is no relationship between Heaslip staying and Ryan leaving. Just a myth concocted by people who didn't like Heaslip and were bitter about a quality player departing Munster. Ryan had previously tried to get a deal to join Leinster, he just wanted to experience a new environment, which is fair enough.

Edna_Ennky wrote: »

I think it is about time that Joe Schmidt appointed a backs coach to the Ireland coaching ticket. Once again we looked rudderless, clueless and shapeless with our attack play so narrow. Our attack strategy seems centered on our back row and our center partnership going the direct route one, crashing over the gainline.

People that criticize Earls and Stockdale must understand that under the direct hard running, attritional style that we play that it does not give our backline a chance to express ourselves. They simply don't get enough of the ball and it must be so frustrating for them. Using brute force as a number one weapon for our attack simply won't cut it in international rugby. If people think that Schmidt will change philosophy over the next 15 months to the World Cup then you will be very disappointed. Finally on this issue of our lack of ambition the continued lack of offloads is simply an issue that is not going away.

I don't agree that on the back of a Grand Slam and one defeat in 13 games we need to change the coaching structure. However even if we did change it would be an attack coach rather than a backs coach we would need anyway. When we get into the red zone we need to see a few more offloads, backs are rarely involved in those situations, James Ryan is good at it (think Fardy's try against the Scarlets) but in those tight areas where defences are watertight it's probably the best way to break them down, but it's high risk.

Edna_Ennky wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

1. Zebo this very week said he wasn't putting his life on hold for the rwc. He wanted to go. Nobody alienated Zebo but Zebo. His media remarks since have been nothing but dumb. If you want to win a place in the squad you dont go crying to the media.

2. Donnacha Ryan wanted to go. He said as much himself. He was offered a contract to stay btw.

I was under the impression that in relation to point two that Ryan wanted to remain with Munster. But as you said that if Ryan wanted to leave then fair enough. However the opinion that I still believe to be the case today that the IRFU prioritized keeping Jamie Heaslip in these shores and did not go the extra mile to keep Ryan in Ireland. That is my opinion and I look forward to hearing what views people have on this issue.

No view because it’s not an issue, James Ryan and Tadhg Beirne have come through and Donnacha is happy out playing some great rugby in France.

Team for next week:
Kearney
Earls
Ringrose
Henshaw
Stockdale
Sexton
Murray
Healy
Herring
Furlong
Ryan
Henderson
POM
Leavy
Conan

Our attack wasn't great but I think it's being overstated a little bit. We made a few breaks and we had a few opportunities. In fact we made more line breaks and beat more defenders than Australia despite our midfield defense being all over the place in the first half. It's far better now than it was last year I'd say.

The game passed Carbery by quite a bit, I'm holding off judgement until we see Sexton in there. Hopefully with himself Henshaw/Ringrose we'll be a bit more aggressive in our use of the ball.

The reactionaries are out. This is not a must win series, this is about giving the wider squad a chance at starting a game at the highest level.

I think this Australian team played a better game than their last game against NZ -which they won btw We had chances, but kicked them away or into touch. Although tired we were definitely in that game.

Australia are discovering what works for them, kick chase to gain territory using Felou (why wouldn't you? He's a banker).

There are two things in this world that are certain, death and taxes. In Australia there are four, the aforementioned death and taxes, Israel Folau will win high balls and Pocock will turn them over.

Mid season, you can ruck Pocock out of the game. At the end of a long season, he's a banker. He didn't even bother contesting that much in the first half either, he turned it on in the second half when we were tiring.
I would say Joe will be having a word about Hooper lying all over the ball, which didn't help our rucking.


All in all, I was happy with what I saw from Ireland, considering how fatigued they were.

There were some great learning too:

We know we have a 10 that can start and run a very tough game.
We now know that we need two 13s (Farrell, Ringrose) and Aki and Henshaw are our 12s.
We know JR can do a job for us (wouldn't mind seeing Cronin get a run at 1 either, he's the best loose-head we have on the ground).
We know Herring is up to the job.
We know that we need to give Beirne a spot on the bench, because the best way to deal with turned over ball is of course to win it back.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There is no relationship between Heaslip staying and Ryan leaving. Just a myth concocted by people who didn't like Heaslip and were bitter about a quality player departing Munster. Ryan had previously tried to get a deal to join Leinster, he just wanted to experience a new environment, which is fair enough.

My understanding is that he wasn't offered an IRFU central contract and from that Ryan got the message that unlike Heaslip he was surplus to requirements with Ireland (despite starting the game v. ABs in Chicago with Toner on the bench who did get a central contract).

Zebo knew that his days with Ireland were limited as Schmidt didn't/does not rate him, so pointless sticking around. As far as I can recall, he was refused a central contract which meant that he was completely dependent on probably injuries to Rob Kearney to get any starts for Ireland (and hence his earning income was much depleted).

There is reason why Zebo & Ryan left - they knew they had no future with Ireland which is what keeps most of the best players here.

Jermaine Big Barium wrote: »

Have you not embarrassed yourself enough in the past talking about Ryan leaving? You don't even have your basic facts straight, Toner and Ryan BOTH started that match, Henderson was injured and out of the 23.

The point remains that Ryan was a starter for Ireland when his central contract was recinded.

And no, I don't get embarrassed for myself or anyone else on an anonymous message board.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You should listen to his own words. He said the IRFU were “fantastic” to deal with and there was no difference in the contracts and it was absolutely not a contractual decision.

But again, what would he know!

Link please.

jm08 wrote: »

http://www.the42.ie/donnacha-ryan-munster-racing-92-move-3308462-Mar2017/

It seems you don't know what 'rescinded' means, but it absolutely is not the same thing as choosing not to renew something.

jm08 wrote: »

Link please.

http://www.secondcaptains.com/2018/02/09/episode-1083-donnacha-ryan-life-paris-life-rugby-sexton-schmidts-secret-sauce-ken-v-caesar-eddie-jones-pokes-dragon/

Were you upset you didn't get a better offer?

Ryan: No. In the end, it was definitely not a financial decision.

http://www.offtheball.com/Off-The-Ball/Jesus-youd-love-to-stay-and-keep-playing-forever--Donnacha-Ryan-on-leaving-Munster-for-Racing-92

In the end from a contract point of view there was no difference at all. There was no difference between staying and going. It's going to come down to a stage where you are going to have to leave, you are going to finish, you are going to leave. Whereas, how hard would I find that leaving as well if it was out of my hands. I suppose I said I need to prepare for that as well, and that's probably the reason why. Look, it does get difficult for players when they do get older."

Jermaine Big Barium wrote: »

That's nice.

His contract still wasn't rescinded. Paddy Jackson's contract was rescinded. Stuart Olding's contract was rescinded.

thanks for the English language lesson.

I know you're an absolutely rabid Munster supporter, you'll desperately try and find some victimhood angle no matter what, and this might be hard for you to take but he wanted to leave. That's the long and short of it.

Victimhood?

I've no problem with Ryan (or Zebo) leaving Ireland and moving to a place where they are actually appreciated.