Brexit discussion thread III

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

That's true. But they had a chance to change that system as recently as 2011 and opted not to.

Indeed. However, as David Laws explains in his chronicle of the Coalition it was a tremendous fudge. Only the Liberal Democrats and the Pirate Party supported it and it was presented such that the general public were told that the person with the second highest amount of votes would win. Laws himself recounts an anecdote where one of his voters felt that he was working hard enough. She'd heard that a Yes vote might make MP's work harder so she voted no.

Leroy42 wrote: »

This idea of a protest vote doesn't stack up.

If such a protest, then why did they vote in record numbers for the Tories, and basically abandon UKIP?

And why do the voters continue to largely back Brexit, even now. If a vote was held today, Remain might win but not by much.

One can only conclude that whilst a part of it would have been a protest, there is no apparent appetite for a new party to represent that, and one can only conclude that this is indeed what the people want. I mean, they had 2 years prior to the vote, and if somehow they didn't pay attention during that it is inescapable to have heard about Brexit since as it really is the only thing the government is focused on.

The UK do not want to be in the EU anymore. Everyone needs to accept that. What the UK needs to decide now is how much of the benefits of the EU they are prepared to give up to get away from the negatives (and there are plenty of negatives with the EU).

It appears that the UK hasn't worked this out.

I believe that the idea of a protest vote does hold up.

The vote to Leave is one of the first real choices the British public has been able to make for years. For much of the past two decades, there was little or no difference between the two main parties. Margaret Thatcher even describes Tony Blair & New Labour as her biggest achievement.

Look at how both of these parties have treated the electorate. Top down reforms of the NHS after explicit promises not to, a botched attempt cut income tax credits despite the same only stopped by the unelected House of Lords, the Iraq War, Atos, tuition fees for the Lib Dems, the expenses scandal, the top 1% making a killing while the poorest get disability and welfare cuts and so on and so on.

It's not hard to see why the elites are held in such contempt. British democracy has a lot of the characteristics of being a closed shop which is rigged against the electorate. A third of voters who did not vote for either Labour or the Conservatives last election effectively have no representation, as did the 4-odd million UKIP voters in 2015.

However, after the referendum British politics has reverted to its previous state of business as usual. Northern working class types, BME voters and Cosmopolitans have gone back to voting Labour while parochial rural Southern English voters, social conservatives, big business types are now voting for the Conservatives once again. These voters are convinced that Brexit will proceed while the remnants of the pitiful and clinical Remain campaign are still sticking to the failed economic doom and gloom narrative. Both parties have committed to Brexit so people have become comfortable reverting to their previous voting habits resulting in the consignment of UKIP to the history books.

Until someone comes up with a positive view of the EU that resonates with the working classes, Brexit will not be reversed. This is why the Lib Dems did so badly last year. They were seen as undemocratic and elitist. The British political system needs to adopt meaningful democratic reforms such as an elected upper chamber and a PR voting system. People feel abandoned and out of touch with Politics so they struck back when the opportunity to do so presented itself.