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Canada close to cannabis legalisation

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Comments

  • #62
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Stoners are absolutely pathetic creatures.

    You should have just said that because it explains your position far more clearly then all the other nonsense you type..


  • #63
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Well alcohol is legal which can really impair the mind and judgement causing endless amount of road fatalities so i don't see why cannabis shouldn't be legalised as well after all its a recreational drug like any other and if someone is that determined to smoke it being illegal won't stop them from getting it they will just get their hands on it through other means.


  • #64
    Chaos Tourist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭Chaos Tourist


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    'productivity', what does this actually mean, and are the spoils of all this 'production' truly spread evenly around the planet? You d be surprised how many people drink alcohol, and consume other highly addictive substances, are these also poor role models?

    Imagine if all legal mind altering drugs (alcohol, coffee, SSRIs etc) and the illegal ones disappeared overnight. The global economy would surely collapse! Many could not function without them.


  • #65
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Rennaws wrote: »
    You should have just said that because it explains your position far more clearly then all the other nonsense you type..

    Is Professor Jim Lucey talking nonsense when he states that the effects of strong cannabis use has a devestating impact on its users - mainly young men?


  • #66
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,728 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Chaos Tourist wrote: »
    Imagine if all legal mind altering drugs (alcohol, coffee, SSRIs etc) and the illegal ones disappeared overnight. The global economy would surely collapse! Many could not function without them.

    not only would humans struggle to deal with it, our complex economic systems require them, and probably would lead to a major global economic crash


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  • #67
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,545 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    The ‘but what about alcohol’ argument is a really shît one. It’s the definition of whataboutery. Of course alcohol is a dangerous drug when misused. It’s dangerous because it’s freely available and socially acceptable, and about 7% of the population will become addicted. So why introduce another dangerous drug into society? One primarily used by young men of below average intelligence who risk having catastrophic mental health issues as a result of regularly using it.

    Stoners are absolutely pathetic creatures.

    I presume you don't drink alcohol?


  • #68
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Is Professor Jim Lucey talking nonsense when he states that the effects of strong cannabis use has a devestating impact on its users - mainly young men?

    If they were the words he used then yes he is talking nonsense.

    If he was to suggest that it may have a devastating effect on a very small minority of people who abuse it then I would say he's probably closer to the truth.

    That aside, i'll take the results of a multi faceted study over the words of Prof Jim Lucy any day and their results were quite clear..

    Alcohol is by far the most devastating drug of them all by a wide margin..

    So based on your argument, do you think we should ban it ?


  • #69
    Malayalam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    Rennaws wrote: »
    .

    Alcohol is by far the most devastating drug of them all by a wide margin..

    It really is. The amount of rapes, incest and murders that are fueled by alcohol, not to mention road deaths. I would say alcohol is the driving factor in a huge percentage of sexual violence.

    Years ago I spent a while living in a small village in the Himalayas where the cannabis plant grows wild and abundantly. Everyone used it - old men, women, it even formed the basis for medicinal drinks for children. Bhang, hemp, ganja was an indelible part of their peaceful culture. Sure, there was what might be perceived as a general air of laziness and hanging around chatting in the tea shops. What the hell else is one going to do in blazing heat anyway, once the crops and animals have been tended? Or in withering cold for that matter, when the village is cut off from the world. 5 years after the initial visit, I returned to spend a while. The atmosphere had completely altered. Alcohol had been deregulated. It was now available freely in the corner shacks and the men were devoted to it. Before it had been extremely difficult to get alcohol, beyond local occasional brews. Drunks lying around on the side of the dusty trails was now a common sight, one that had NEVER been seen before. People were poorer, the family money almost universally going into drink. But worst of all were the screams regularly echoing up from the valleys at night, the sounds of abuse and violence in homes because of alcohol. It was horrific and saddening, and an example in real time of the brutal effects of the societally accepted drug of choice of our civilisation - Ethyl Alcohol. The pathetic debate around the legalisation of drugs makes me laugh.


  • #70
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Berserker wrote: »
    It will not take it out the hands of criminals. The criminals will be able to supply drugs to the general consumer far cheaper than any legal outlet and consumers will use the cost factor as justification to buy it from the illegal source.
    Cost on the street in Toronto: approx $10/g
    Cost in canna clinic, Toronto: $11.30/g ($10 + GST/HST)

    Added to that if you go somewhere like Canna Clinic, you get informed staff letting you know what each strain will give you in terms of a high, able to recommend if you're looking for recreational, pain relief, sleep aid, etc, as well as the peace of mind you won't be ripped off.

    There is a reason ao many canna clinics and the like have been popping up everywhere in Canada for the last 3+ years. People would prefer to buy from an establishment.


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Berserker wrote: »
    My wife is from Vancouver. What did you make of Downtown Eastside with respect to drugs? I have a follow on question regarding your colleague's husband based on your answer above.

    I don't think you can take DTE and make it this shining light for how legalisation is bad.

    There are a number of factors at play. Vancouver is a hot spot for homeless in Canada given its much, much milder winters. I've heard stories of other cities giving their homeless one way Greyhound tickets to Vancouver. People are usually homeless for a variety of reasons, mental health and drug addiction being the main ones.

    I've been around there at night, it's not as dangerous as you'd think and most of the drug use is heroin, not marijuana. Heroin as we all know, is a vicious and dangerous drug. Nowhere near parallel with marijuana.

    East Hastings is certainly an issue, but it's not caused by people smoking weed. Far from it.

    Let's not forget alcohol and drug abuse issues with the First Nations as a result of abhorrent policies enacted by the Canadian government over time. People from a First Nations background make up a sizeable percentage of addicts in that area. Again, weed isn't the issue.


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  • #72
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Didn't east Hastings become how it is largely because they closed a mental hospital there a few years back and left many of the patients out on the streets?

    Never been to Vancouver but that what I've heard second hand off people in Toronto from BC.


  • #73
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    circadian wrote: »
    Let's not forget alcohol and drug abuse issues with the First Nations as a result of abhorrent policies enacted by the Canadian government over time. People from a First Nations background make up a sizeable percentage of addicts in that area. Again, weed isn't the issue.

    It's the same in Australia.

    Interesting article on it here which seems to make a lot of sense and ties in with more recent theories on addiction..

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/aboriginal-people-and-alcohol-not-a-genetic-predisposition-1.2660167


  • #74
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭scamalert


    this debate is never ending, in Ireland and as OP stated probably another 20 years once every other country will make it legal.


    compared to alcohol its safer alternative - id rather run into stoner group then into bunch of lads off their heads on booze looking to smash someone up.


    Trouble in Ireland is that due to black market and no regulations many who use it mix it with tobacco, also youth like to add alcohol on top, as against where its legal ppl mainly use pure cannabis and results are sluggish,munchies and good sleep.


    main problem is having it properly controlled - mj tests at work , also due to its longevity it may cause issues for anyone driving as cannabis stays quite few days last time ive read somewhere.


    thou cigs and alcohol cause major issues in this country and adding weed to culture that cant handle a drink is a no go
    its bad enough streets littered with puke and piss after each weekend so MJ would be adding to issue that's been ignored for way to long and you cant change that culture sadly.


  • #75
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    The link between cannabis abuse and psychosis cannot be ignored. The Professor of Psychiatry in TCD (also the head honcho in St Patrick’s Hospital) was on Pat Kenny a few months back and spoke about the absolutely devastating effects cannabis is having on users - mainly young men, often from small rural towns. Life changing mental health issues. The prognosis for recovery is not good.

    A visit to their website also says regular smoking of weed causes the following:

    Social withdrawal and isolation
    Anxiety, agitation, and irritability
    Sleep disturbances e.g. reverse sleep cycle
    Mood changes e.g. mood swings, depression or reduced emotional expression
    Impaired concentration, motivation and handling of everyday stress
    Loss of interest and deterioration in school, work and self-care.


    It’s a nasty, dirty drug. This harmless narrative is a dangerous myth.


    Don't forget that he's only going to be encountering the extreme cases, so his views on its effects are going to be skewed.


  • #76
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    scamalert wrote: »
    thou cigs and alcohol cause major issues in this country and adding weed to culture that cant handle a drink is a no go
    its bad enough streets littered with puke and piss after each weekend so MJ would be adding to issue that's been ignored for way to long and you cant change that culture sadly.

    I agree with most of your post but not on this.

    Think outside the box. The answer is often staring us in the face. It's usually pretty simple and can often appear counter intuitive. I honestly believe legalisation for recreational use would help reduce harmful drinking in this country.

    In fact for many thousands of individual cases, it already does.

    The evidence on legalisation is clear. it's not a question of whether it works or not. We know it does. It's a question of why haven't we done it yet and when are we going to do it.

    Why the **** do we have to wait 20 years for something that could be done tomorrow..

    We need to just get over this nonsense and move with the times.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it


  • #77
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Rennaws wrote: »
    Agreed. Weed is as common as cornflakes. Legalizing it just takes it out of the hands of criminals and saves those who enjoy it from risking prosecution.

    It’s a complete no brainer. We just need our politicians to catch up and accept the inevitable reality which means we might be waiting..

    It wouldn't. Cigarettes are legal and black market tobacco is one of the most lucrative rackets on the island today.

    Criminals undercut the State. You can get 10 packs of Marlboro Red for between 45 and 50 euro from a criminal. Buy the same from the State and it will cost you €125.

    They'll do the same with cannabis.


  • #78
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Tomaldo wrote: »
    Members of The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Bob Dlyan used it, were they not 'productive people'

    They were creative minds doing something which they had a passion for.

    Would the same productivity have been seen if they had been pen pushers in some office building.


  • #79
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    It wouldn't. Cigarettes are legal and black market tobacco is one of the most lucrative rackets on the island today.

    Criminals undercut the State. You can get 10 packs of Marlboro Red for between 45 and 50 euro from a criminal. Buy the same from the State and it will cost you €125.

    They'll do the same with cannabis.

    There’s already more money in tobacco then drugs apparently which is why we’re seeing so many seizures. That’s what happens when you try and tax them out of existence.

    So yes if they put ridiculous tax on weed and make it way more expensive then the black market then people will probably still use the black market but the obvious answer is not to put a ridiculous tax on it.

    The gangs will always find a way to make money but if weed Is legalized and sold at current prices they won’t be making it on that. People will opt for consistency and quality over black market crap.

    It’s a flower on a plant so it’s not exactly expensive or difficult to produce.


  • #80
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    This is Ireland though Rennaws, of course they'll stick a massive tax on it.


  • #81
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    This is Ireland though Rennaws, of course they'll stick a massive tax on it.

    I hear ya..

    And it would be counter productive.

    That said, I imagine some people will still pay a premium for choice, quality and consistency.


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  • #82
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Cigs must have the highest mark up of any item for sale in the country.

    They're dirt cheap to produce. You can sell a pack for less than 1 US dollar in parts of Asia and still make a tidy profit.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    This is Ireland though Rennaws, of course they'll stick a massive tax on it.

    They can't, as it's not physically additive like cigarettes and alcohol (and alcohol is also a core part of society in Ireland).

    Sure, some people will be mentally addicted to it, but that's a minority.


  • #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Cigs must have the highest mark up of any item for sale in the country.

    Actually, I'm pretty sure popcorn in cinemas is the most marked up item.


  • #85
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Actually, I'm pretty sure popcorn in cinemas is the most marked up item.

    Any shop sandwich would give that a run for its money. Never mind any tea or coffee anywhere.


  • #86
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Rennaws wrote: »
    It's the same in Australia.

    Interesting article on it here which seems to make a lot of sense and ties in with more recent theories on addiction..

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/aboriginal-people-and-alcohol-not-a-genetic-predisposition-1.2660167

    Oh, well that explains higher Irish alcoholism rates.


  • #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Any shop sandwich would give that a run for its money. Never mind any tea or coffee anywhere.

    Off-topic but apparently, the average popcorn markup in America is 1,275%.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/20-products-giant-markups-115730856.html


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