I wasn't even 15' - A Magdalene survivor's story

Augeo wrote: »

Is anything along those lines planned?

Yes, protests will happen. Peaceful of course and not directed in anyway towards members of the public attending events.

I just don't understand how the Church was able to get away with this. Now, I'm approaching this from a place of ignorance (I'm British and I was raised to be atheist), I didn't even know about the laundries before coming to live in Ireland eighteen years ago.

I try to get it straight in my head: there was no sex education in school and it was seemingly taboo in homes, too. A previous poster mentioned their mother being afraid of pregnancy after just a dance with a man. So, girls didn't even know how pregnancies occurred?

It seems quite galling, therefore, that girls would be so heavily punished for society's failings in addressing the issue to begin with. Worse, they were shunned by the community until their families shipped them off to these appalling forced labour places.

In Britain, according to my older relatives, girls often went on "holiday" for nine months (a euphemism for having illegitimate babies, obviously). But then they just came back (baby having been given up for adoption) and carried on as normal. While people may have suspected the truth, nothing was said overtly. And it was literally for the duration of the pregnancy, they weren't forced to stay in whatever institution they'd been shipped off to.

Was that not an option in Ireland? Couldn't they discreetly give birth in some other part of the country and then come home, no one else any the wiser? It just seems bizarre that the only option was to send vulnerable girls off to these forced labour camps.

Trasna1 wrote: »

What I'll never understand was how, in the majority of cases it was parents who put their daughters voluntarily in these institutions. It's a point often overlooked.

It was lack of respect for women from all church, state and family was endemic at the time.

and where were the gardand public prosecutors? Surely these institutions were violating all sorts of laws

Lady Spangles wrote: »

I just don't understand how the Church was able to get away with this. Now, I'm approaching this from a place of ignorance (I'm British and I was raised to be atheist), I didn't even know about the laundries before coming to live in Ireland eighteen years ago.

I try to get it straight in my head: there was no sex education in school and it was seemingly taboo in homes, too. A previous poster mentioned their mother being afraid of pregnancy after just a dance with a man. So, girls didn't even know how pregnancies occurred?

It seems quite galling, therefore, that girls would be so heavily punished for society's failings in addressing the issue to begin with. Worse, they were shunned by the community until their families shipped them off to these appalling forced labour places.

In Britain, according to my older relatives, girls often went on "holiday" for nine months (a euphemism for having illegitimate babies, obviously). But then they just came back (baby having been given up for adoption) and carried on as normal. While people may have suspected the truth, nothing was said overtly. And it was literally for the duration of the pregnancy, they weren't forced to stay in whatever institution they'd been shipped off to.

Was that not an option in Ireland? Couldn't they discreetly give birth in some other part of the country and then come home, no one else any the wiser? It just seems bizarre that the only option was to send vulnerable girls off to these forced labour camps.

A lot of them were sent to a relative, yes. Poorer families had to depend on the laundries.

Also, the impression is sometimes given that girls/women were in the laundries for years and years, this was only a tiny fraction of them, almost all of them left after having their babies

Lady Spangles wrote: »

I just don't understand how the Church was able to get away with this. Now, I'm approaching this from a place of ignorance (I'm British and I was raised to be atheist), I didn't even know about the laundries before coming to live in Ireland eighteen years ago.

I try to get it straight in my head: there was no sex education in school and it was seemingly taboo in homes, too. A previous poster mentioned their mother being afraid of pregnancy after just a dance with a man. So, girls didn't even know how pregnancies occurred?

It seems quite galling, therefore, that girls would be so heavily punished for society's failings in addressing the issue to begin with. Worse, they were shunned by the community until their families shipped them off to these appalling forced labour places.

In Britain, according to my older relatives, girls often went on "holiday" for nine months (a euphemism for having illegitimate babies, obviously). But then they just came back (baby having been given up for adoption) and carried on as normal. While people may have suspected the truth, nothing was said overtly. And it was literally for the duration of the pregnancy, they weren't forced to stay in whatever institution they'd been shipped off to.

Was that not an option in Ireland? Couldn't they discreetly give birth in some other part of the country and then come home, no one else any the wiser? It just seems bizarre that the only option was to send vulnerable girls off to these forced labour camps.

I think it's helpful to look at the state of mind in society with regards to religion.

God existed back then. God was a very real and tangible entity. He made us and sent his son to die for our sins.

And you had two choices. Either you rejoiced or you faced damnation. As ridiculous as it sounds today, you either had two outcomes. You went to heaven or you went to hell.

The thinking and the belief system was that black and white. You certainly didn't question it or risk your reputation by criticizing God or those who espoused his words and wishes.

Now in this madness, which is exactly what it was, it was decided, among a litany of other nonsense, that a child should be born in a marriage. A marriage was conducted in the presence of God. The belief was that 'he' was actually there when a marriage was carried out by a Priest, who himself had decided to dedicate his life to impersonating his son. This imbued Priests with infallibility. This son of God himself was conceived without the actual need for sex. Thus sex was bad. The devils domain.

Marriage was the solution to that particular problem.

So again there was this two sides of the equation, children born to a marriage who would be deemed clean and those not who were born in a framework that was a sin against God. They were damned and they were going to hell unless something was done to prevent that. Interestingly enough, those who came up with this bull**** were themselves 'clean' of course. The procreating wasn't done properly according to conclusions reached in a work of fiction.

So what do do with these sinners against God? The mothers who didn't know any better, who were just being human? What to do with these children born in the devils domain, unclean and damned for all eternity?

Penance.

Now what should have been a simple confessional with a Priest to absolve such a sin of actually procreating wasn't enough. For whatever reason it became a class A sin to have a child outside of marriage.

Families shunned their daughters, sisters to that end. The only thing for it was penance. Their collective consciences would be cleared that they would be doing the right thing for the woman in the eyes of God by having her repent and serve under the help and grace of the nuns to absolve them of such an awful sin. They were doing Gods work and in this bizarre state of mind, that was the right and correct action. What better place for them than in the care of the sisters after all, who were themselves married to Jesus. Surely they would be cared for and prayed for with the compassion, love and understanding of women married to Jesus himself? There was also the impact of what will the neighbors think? As it was a grade A sin, then it was a devastating blow to the reputation of the family. To have it be seen that it was dealt with by sending say a 16 year old Jacinta to the Nuns was a cowardly way to deflect from that blow to the families reputation. It was the family doing the Christian thing after their child was tempted by the Devil. (it's worth noting that he actually doesn't exist, but back then he did in a major and influental way_

In the same way, those who disposed of the bodies of neglected infants and small children in septic tanks and if they were lucky unmarked, unconsecrated graves, these people too, whoever they were, were simply doing God's work.

They and their mothers were the product of the Devil himself and would be treated with such callousness and righteous arrogance that seeing that this was allowed to happen for so long, that nobody called it out for the nonsense that it is is infuriating to look back on.

It was a psychological cocktail of ignorance, fear and obedience during those days. And for those who were themselves clean what business was it of theirs what happened to these women and their children and their association with the devil?

So to see God as being actually real helps get a sense and grasp of how this madness was enabled to poison society. They were many who saw through the dangerous lies of religion and protected those mothers and their children. Unfortunately, the fear of god was real for many and many mothers suffered needlessly because of ignorance.

TeaBagMania wrote: »

A great place to look into how some of Ireland operated in the past.

Very knowledgeable staff give a guided tour

http://irishworkhousecentre.ie/

Agreed.

But it wont take off 'cos it doesn't fit the narrative: No nuns or priests operating the place, or delivering people up to it. People committing themselves to it- if anything management didn't want to take them in.