When did parents stop parenting?

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 05-06-2018 04:11PM

Buckfast W wrote: »

All that is true but it doesn't absolve from bad parenting. Children should not be using an underground car park as a playground under any circumstances. In my estate the other week a child was almost knocked down by a car while playing in the underground. No doubt the parents of the child would be blaming the driver and not themselves if something serious had happened.

I totally agree. I feel sorry for parents who are trying to bring up children in Irish apartment blocks, but at the end of the day they still have to consider the safety of their children and the right to consideration of other residents.

Letting kids run around car parks, or damage communal property is not on, regardless of where you live.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 05-06-2018 04:11PM

listermint wrote: »

What i find amusing is these folks think they are in the Majority.

Look at the birth rates OP, you are the minority. Most of these people have no wish to live in a poxy size apartments next to grumpy yolks giving out. They would much prefer to be out somewhere with outside space for their children. But these are the cards that we dealt.

Il say what i say to all folks when they buy an apartment, You literally live on top of people, if you dont like noise then dont be a spanner and buy / rent an apartment. Live somewhere else.

Kids will play , people will make noise - people living on top of each other is a dream..................

Why does someone being in the minority mean they have fewer rights to consideration?

whisky_galore · 05-06-2018 04:13PM

The 'Irish Dream' of owning your own house with a lawn and space for a trampoline is just a dream now for many people.

Re screaming kids, this country was never the best at civic responsibility, that's why people here fly tip and let their dogs wander and shyte with impunity.

05-06-2018 04:48PM

Buckfast W wrote: »

In my estate the other week a child was almost knocked down by a car while playing in the underground. No doubt the parents of the child would be blaming the driver and not themselves if something serious had happened.

Remember that little bit of traffic law about driving in a manner that allows you to stop within the distance you can see to be clear?

TheFever · 05-06-2018 04:50PM

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Bit of a rant haha

Absolutely sick of all the kids out playing in the common area in our apartment block.The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

I have no problem with kids playing but these kids have no manners at all. They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

I don't know how the parents let the kids out like that, the complex has a gate but there's always people coming in and out so anything could happen.

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

End rant haha

Sounds fantastic, much better than being stuck in a sitting room with an i pad.

Kids are the solution .

OldMrBrennan83 · 05-06-2018 04:52PM

This post has been deleted.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 05-06-2018 04:59PM

TheFever wrote: »

Sounds fantastic, much better than being stuck in a sitting room with an i pad.

Kids are the solution .

Why do some people feel the only alternative to kids being allowed run wild is to have them stuck inside with their ipad? The above post may be tongue in cheek, but you see this kind of response over and over on threads like this one.

Birneybau · 05-06-2018 05:05PM

TheFever wrote: »

Sounds fantastic, much better than being stuck in a sitting room with an i pad.

Kids are the solution .

To what question?

TheFever · 05-06-2018 05:40PM

Birneybau wrote: »

To what question?

Kids are the solution to everything .

Buckfast W · 05-06-2018 06:09PM

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Remember that little bit of traffic law about driving in a manner that allows you to stop within the distance you can see to be clear?

Yeah that's not always the case when I'm coming to a blind corner to turn up the ramp to exit the underground and the kids are flying down because they're using for there scooters, even if I stopped the car and inched forward they can still come down at speed and seriously hurt themselves because they have no way to see where they're going, but sure it's my fault because I'm in a car and I'm obviously being insensitive to the needs of the other residents that feel an underground car park with all its dangers is an appropriate place for their children to play.

Is that answer sufficient enough or would you like to throw in another smart remark?

ceadaoin. · 05-06-2018 06:11PM

Why do Irish estates and apartment buildings have zero facilities? Years ago I lived in Park West. There was a huge empty field in front the apartments, perfect space for a playground and exercise facilities given that there was no park within walking distance. Instead it was populated by tenants drinking cans on sunny days. Same with housing estates, most have plenty of open spaces like fields, with nothing on them. What is the point of that? Playgrounds and tennis courts etc only seem to exist in large parks.

Why shouldn't kids be able to play where they live? It's normal behaviour. If there were proper facilities then it wouldn't be a problem. Would it not foster a better sense of community for residents to have playgrounds, sporting, bbq and dog walking areas where they live?

OldMrBrennan83 · 05-06-2018 06:13PM

This post has been deleted.

Buckfast W · 05-06-2018 06:15PM

ceadaoin. wrote:

Why shouldn't kids be able to play where they live? It's normal behaviour. If there were proper facilities then it wouldn't be a problem.

There's a playground less than 60 seconds from where I live, another one at the end of the estate and a big park 15 min walk(maximum) away but it's easier for the parents to open their doors and ignore their children screaming around the courtyard.

ceadaoin. · 05-06-2018 06:17PM

Patww79 wrote: »

There's a big green straight across the road here, numerous goal posts and all, and the little brats still play on the road outside the house. Outside this house naturally as Mummy and Daddy have them well trained not to damage their own cars.

Well what is the point of just a "green" is what I'm saying. Not all kids want to play ball. If there was something on there like a playground or bike track, picnic area, basketball court etc then it might be more appealing to kids (and adults). I suppose the residents would complain about that too.

Graces7 · 05-06-2018 06:23PM

At what point , reading about kids racing round in underground car parks, does this all become parental negligence?

Blanchy90 · 05-06-2018 06:23PM

My issue isn't the kids playing it's children being completely unsupervised. As for the size of the apartments most of them here are actually a decent size (except the one beds, they're shoeboxes and I'm in one). Granted there are no facilities for children in the complex but within a 15 minute walk there are 3 parks all with playgrounds and other facilities

ceadaoin. · 05-06-2018 06:37PM

Graces7 wrote: »

At what point , reading about kids racing round in underground car parks, does this all become parental negligence?

Kids playing in carparks is negligence. Kids playing where they live is not (once they are adequately supervised). Just because some people don't have kids doesn't mean they are entitled to never have to see or hear any. Children are part of society, they live in apartments and they like to play. Get used to it!

ceadaoin. · 05-06-2018 06:40PM

Buckfast W wrote: »

There's a playground less than 60 seconds from where I live, another one at the end of the estate and a big park 15 min walk(maximum) away but it's easier for the parents to open their doors and ignore their children screaming around the courtyard.

Well parents can't spend every minute of the day in Parks and playgrounds. They have other things to do. Same as how my daughter would play in the garden while I'm making dinner. They shouldn't be unsupervised though.

Birneybau · 05-06-2018 06:48PM

TheFever wrote: »

Birneybau wrote: »

To what question?

Kids are the solution to everything .

Global hunger? There's not much eating on most of them

Buckfast W · 05-06-2018 06:50PM

ceadaoin. wrote:

Well parents can't spend every minute of the day in Parks and playgrounds. They have other things to do. Same as how my daughter would play in the garden while I'm making dinner. They shouldn't be unsupervised though.

Well these children are unsupervised. If the parents feel so strongly that the children need to play they could take it in turns to bring the kids to the playground for an hour. Instead for them it's out of sight out of mind.

It always amazes me that people just shrug of the behaviour of children with "kids will be kids". A lot of my neighbours don't have children so why should they be subjected to the constant noise and disruption from other people's kids?

My brother has 2 children in the same estate but he actually does things with them.

eviltwin · 05-06-2018 06:53PM

Small children shouldn't be out alone but it's unreasonable to expect parents to stay outside with 9 or 10 yr olds. Kids make noise, city life is noisy.

ceadaoin. · 05-06-2018 06:55PM

Buckfast W wrote: »

Well these children are unsupervised. If the parents feel so strongly that the children need to play they could take it in turns to bring the kids to the playground for an hour. Instead for them it's out of sight out of mind.

It always amazes me that people just shrug of the behaviour of children with "kids will be kids". A lot of my neighbours don't have children so why should they be subjected to the constant noise and disruption from other people's kids?

My brother has 2 children in the same estate but he actually does things with them.

Yes, taking it in turns to supervise would be a good idea. But again it's not practical to always have to be in the park. Maybe you could get on to management to put up 'children must be supervised at all times' signs? Although if they're the type to leave their kids to it they will probably ignore them.

As I said earlier just because you don't have children it's unreasonable to expect to never hear or see them. They live there too.

I do tons of stuff with my child, she still likes to play outside when she is home. Luckily we have our own outside space for her to play in. I think it would be unfair on kids to keep them inside just to keep the neighbours happy.

JupiterKid · 05-06-2018 07:02PM

I was very fortunate to grow up in a middle class suburban area of Dublin in a nice housing estate built in the 1970s with decent back gardens and close to a big park but from the age of about 7 or so friends and I were allowed out to play on the streets - local greens and we went around the place on our bicycles, climbed trees etc.

My late mum on the summer school holdidays was only too glad to get me and my sisters out of the house and out of her hair. We were of course told not to talk to “ strangers” or get into a stranger’s car - this was the 1980s but we played outdoors all the time in decent weather. But we were taught manners and not to be bothering other neighbors - especially elderly ones. We were in each other’s houses a lot when the weather wasn’t so great.

I suppose they were more innocent times. And a time when a family with 3 or 4 children could afford a decent sized suburban house on one income. Those days are long gone now.

The new reality is that unless they live far out in the bloated commuter belt, families can’t afford the “ suburban dream” any more unless they are on very high incomes. So many families must settle for having their families - usually one or max 2 kids now - in apartments or small terraced houses. So big gardens for play are not an option now. This is the new reality of housing in Dublin and will only increase in the coming years.

So it is imperative that we start to think more along Continental European lines - good quality, well built spacious affordable (ha ha!!:rolleyes:) apartments in our cities that can cater to families with decent communal open spaces, good soundproofing (very very important if you live beside a young family) and adequate playground facilities.

But Irish builders are simply not catering to this new reality and thus the problems of children playing in unsuitable areas and annoying adult neighbors arises.

I myself have a good sized 2 bed apt built in the 1980s with a good sized communal garden and in the last couple of years some families with young children have moved in.

Most of these are immigrant families but I have to say the kids are largely well behaved and fortunately the Phoenix Park is on my doorstep. But alas no playground nearby and with both parents working full time these days to make ends meet so supervising the children is more difficult than it would have been in the past.

Be prepared for a big surge in children living in apartments in Dublin over the coming decade. We are undergoing a huge change in the housing environment.

Buckfast W · 05-06-2018 07:02PM

ceadaoin. wrote:

Yes, taking it in turns to supervise would be a good idea. Maybe you could get on to management to put up 'children must be supervised at all times' signs? Although if they're the type to leave their kids to it they will probably ignore them.

ceadaoin. wrote:

As I said earlier just because you don't have children it's unreasonable to expect to never hear or see them. They live there too.

ceadaoin. wrote:

I do tons of stuff with my child, she still likes to play outside when she is home. Luckily we have our own outside space for her to play in. I think it would be unfair on kids to keep them inside just to keep the neighbours happy.

I'd honestly have no problem if the kids here played like normal children, I have my balcony door open and am currently listening to 3 kids under the age of 8 having what appears to be a screaming contest. This is constant, from when the kids finish school until at least 10pm every night. How's this is anyway fair for decent parents who have younger children or babies and want to get them asleep for the night?

Signs are up everywhere and letters have been sent to all residents but there just ignored

ceadaoin. · 05-06-2018 07:16PM

Buckfast W wrote: »

I'd honestly have no problem if the kids here played like normal children, I have my balcony door open and am currently listening to 3 kids under the age of 8 having what appears to be a screaming contest. This is constant, from when the kids finish school until at least 10pm every night. How's this is anyway fair for decent parents who have younger children or babies and want to get them asleep for the night?

Signs are up everywhere and letters have been sent to all residents but there just ignored

Yes, I can see why that would be annoying. If my daughter was outside screaming I'd definitely be having words with her! Reasonable noise from children playing, yes fine and to be expected. But that does sound like a nuisance. It's up to the management to enforce the policies. Where I live you can get fined for excessive noise and other trangressions if people complain.

Buckfast W · 05-06-2018 07:30PM

ceadaoin. wrote:

Yes, I can see why that would be annoying. If my daughter was outside screaming I'd definitely be having words with her! Reasonable noise from children playing, yes fine and to be expected. But that does sound like a nuisance. It's up to the management to enforce the policies. Where I live you can get fined for excessive noise and other trangressions if people complain.

That sounds like a really good idea but unfortunately I don't think it's gonna happen here. We're having problems with our management company :-(

cherryghost · 05-06-2018 07:48PM

The mentality of modern urban buildings are tall grey blocks, squeeze as many apartments as legally plausible, meet absolute minimum safety requirements, have a management company run it. There's little-to-no thoughts about the people who occupy them, family or not.

When family planning in Ireland, apartments are the back of the building list. Out in Japan nearly every apartment block has a playground within 200m, no smoking areas and everything is generally well run. It's a completely different living space over there, and if similar building ethnics were run here, having a family in an apartment would be something I would then consider

jobbridge4life · 05-06-2018 08:02PM

Graces7 wrote: »

At what point , reading about kids racing round in underground car parks, does this all become parental negligence?

For part of my childhood I grew up in a thoroughly middle class housing estate. My road was a through road to the second phase of the development, but it was also a playground. We played football, we danced in the road, we ran across it in a heartbeat playing hide and go seek, tip the can etc. An underground carpark in an a complex, seems like an infinitely safer option to me?

jobbridge4life · 05-06-2018 08:04PM

cherryghost wrote: »

The mentality of modern urban buildings are tall grey blocks, squeeze as many apartments as legally plausible, meet absolute minimum safety requirements, have a management company run it. There's little-to-no thoughts about the people who occupy them, family or not.

When family planning in Ireland, apartments are the back of the building list. Out in Japan nearly every apartment block has a playground within 200m, no smoking areas and everything is generally well run. It's a completely different living space over there, and if similar building ethnics were run here, having a family in an apartment would be something I would then consider

You don't need to (and arguably shouldn't) look to far-east Asia for livable family apartments. Barcelona is in my experience an excellent example of what is achievable in even a modest population city like Dublin.

Mrs OBumble · 05-06-2018 08:20PM

Blanchy90 wrote: »

They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

....

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

If the kids really are that young, then it's potentially neglect. You, and the randoms on here, aren't qualified to decide if it is or not. Phone Tulsa, and make it their problem. Details here.

When did parents stop parenting?

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