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Epsom 1st June 2018, Oaks Day

  • 01-06-2018 11:43am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭


    I have bet €70 at 30.55 Windstoss in the 12f Coronation Cup, Group 1
    My worry is the jockey will not know Epsom.

    The favourite, Cracksman, is 2/7.
    Cracksman's last two runs were at 10f, he has form on soft, but most of his form is on good. he has won 6 of 8, but one of his defeats was here.
    Today is soft ground on a tough 12f course. There may not be enough runners to make a good pace to test Cracksman.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Mgoraf


    I reckon cracksman will be unbeatable this season if the ground is soft. He clearly loves this surface.

    I think he is an overrated horse tho and will be well worth taking on any tine the ground is quick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭longshotvalue


    Cracksman is 11/8 to win by up to 4.5 lgts.


    Seems that they would be mad to be killing him too much on soft ground.


    I got tempted to have a decent bet but decided against it in the end.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    I thought Galloway Hills was interesting on the step up to 7f with SDS up @8-2.

    However the price is completely gone now. Has he been price-wised does anyone know?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I was at Epsom in 2002 when German horse Boreal hacked up in the Coronation Cup on soft.
    Perhaps i am influenced by that memory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Mgoraf


    kiers47 wrote: »
    I thought Galloway Hills was interesting on the step up to 7f with SDS up @8-2.

    However the price is completely gone now. Has he been price-wised does anyone know?

    Paul kealy NAP' d him


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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    Just laid 8k to Craksman the Frankel rogue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Never in doubt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Saxon Warrior the next odds on hoss to cruise in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    kiers47 wrote: »
    I thought Galloway Hills was interesting on the step up to 7f with SDS up @8-2.

    However the price is completely gone now. Has he been price-wised does anyone know?

    De Sousa is abandoning Juanto Chico for him which is what stands out to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I had a €100 loss on Windstoss but value against a 2/7 fav.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Mgoraf wrote: »
    Paul kealy NAP' d him

    That explains it. Was that on the podcast or something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Mgoraf


    Yeah on the pod.

    Thst was such a strange race. The 2nd was well beaten in the derby last year. By canford cliffs he should be a non stayer

    Cracksman didn't look like he was travelling the whole way. I'd say he hates the track but there isn't a hope he'll be close in an arc imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,625 ✭✭✭✭Johner


    I think it was quite clear he hated the track, he did well to win that considering. I'd still fancy him for Royal Ascot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Mgoraf wrote: »
    Yeah on the pod.

    Thst was such a strange race. The 2nd was well beaten in the derby last year. By canford cliffs he should be a non stayer

    Cracksman didn't look like he was travelling the whole way. I'd say he hates the track but there isn't a hope he'll be close in an arc imo.

    I think they are better off sticking to 10f imo.
    There is a nice break between the Irish and British Champion stakes this year. 5 weeks i think.
    There is a nice path that can be made there.
    Prince of Wales->Eclipse->International->Irish Ch->British Ch

    If he won a couple of them would be great. They could even skip the British Champion and send him to the breeders cup which would be a punt to nothing if he has a couple of them races picked up before it.

    That Oppenheimer lad is a nutter though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    I don't buy into the "he hated the track" talk. He's run there 3 times with two wins and a third in The Derby to show for it and he had the kind of ground which has been the making of him. Before the off I thought his price 30/100 was very generous.

    He ran almost 20lbs below form today, or did he? Idaho ran a stinker, Hawkbill ran a stinker. What we saw today was Salouen running out of his skin from the front. Take Salouen out of it and the pundits would have been hailing another marvelous victory for Cracksman.

    Cracksman to my eyes is a very strange beast, he has massive shoulders and is a very wide horse. He looks like a bull of a sprinter on top of middle-distance legs and stride.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    tryfix wrote: »
    I don't buy into the "he hated the track" talk.
    From the protecting stud value book of excuses.
    Others are "pulled a muscle"; "got struck into"; "finished lame"; "made a gurgling noise".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    €20 Bye Bye Baby at 8.6
    I am confused by this field.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    diomed wrote: »
    From the protecting stud value book of excuses.
    Others are "pulled a muscle"; "got struck into"; "finished lame"; "made a gurgling noise".

    If you look at the times so far for the day, it was the fastest run race so far today. It will be interesting to see if the fillies in the Oaks better his time.

    1st race 6f slow by 4.65
    2nd race 1m 1/2f slow by 5.54
    3rd race 1m 4f slow by 3.99
    4th race 1m 2f slow by 5.27


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I wouldn't mind if Perfect Clarity won as she is in two Oaks/Derby doubles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I had to rush to the door to a courier delivering a Dvorak keyboard, a keyboard with all the keys in the wrong places (i.e. not a qwerty).
    It is beautifully made (by Matias), and has a button to push if you want to switch to qwerty.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    diomed wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind if Perfect Clarity won as she is in two Oaks/Derby doubles.

    She looks like a proper old fashioned Oaks filly, long and rangy with plenty of scope.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Forever together for me. Another group 1 for donnacha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    A pointer to Kew Gardens tomorrow?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    A great ride and they finished well strung out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    No excuses there. She strung them out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Aidan phoning home to order a curry from the local take out. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    The first 5 were in the first 5 throughout the race, with Salouen 's huge run from the front in the Coronation Cup it would appear that the ground is favouring horses that are up with the pace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Forever together for me. Another group 1 for donnacha

    Good lad Donnacha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Galileo, Dubawi, Galileo, Galileo, Galileo.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Time slow by 5.89s


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    tryfix wrote: »
    If you look at the times so far for the day, it was the fastest run race so far today. It will be interesting to see if the fillies in the Oaks better his time.

    1st race 6f slow by 4.65
    2nd race 1m 1/2f slow by 5.54
    3rd race 1m 4f slow by 3.99
    4th race 1m 2f slow by 5.27


    And the Oaks was slow by 5.89 which confirms that Cracksman's Coronation Cup win was much a better performance than it appeared to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Strange how you often see the Oaks field come up the stands side like that at Epsom, 10+ examples off the top of my head.

    I know they are searching for the better ground but I cant remember a single Derby winner coming near side since the 70s and there must have been plenty of softy ground Derbys in that time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    antietam wrote: »
    Just laid 8k to Craksman the Frankel rogue.

    Rough


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    Strange how you often see the Oaks field come up the stands side like that at Epsom, 10+ examples off the top of my head.

    I know they are searching for the better ground but I cant remember a single Derby winner coming near side since the 70s and there must have been plenty of softy ground Derbys in that time.
    Kazzia came near side in the Oaks in 2002, but High Chaparral went far side in the Derby the next day.
    It might be that the ground dries in a day, or jockeys are afraid to "lose" the Derby by coming near side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    diomed wrote: »
    Kazzia came near side in the Oaks in 2002, but High Chaparral went far side in the Derby the next day.
    It might be that the ground dries in a day, or jockeys are afraid to "lose" the Derby by coming near side.

    Yes I think maybe nowadays they may also move the far side rail in on Derby day to open up a fresh strip of ground there.

    Used to be a 4 day meeting with Derby on Wednesday, Oaks on the Saturday which I suppose meant the Oaks got the worst of the ground and that's why they would come stands side.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,061 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    Strange how you often see the Oaks field come up the stands side like that at Epsom, 10+ examples off the top of my head.

    I know they are searching for the better ground but I cant remember a single Derby winner coming near side since the 70s and there must have been plenty of softy ground Derbys in that time.


    It's tradition, a kind of an unwritten rule in the derby you stay far side. I kid you not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Mgoraf wrote: »
    Paul kealy NAP' d him

    Fair play to Kealy saved me a few quid. Haha


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Mgoraf


    diomed wrote: »
    From the protecting stud value book of excuses.
    Others are "pulled a muscle"; "got struck into"; "finished lame"; "made a gurgling noise".

    Cracksman is fine this morning after his win in the Coronation Cup but it turns out that he had a bit of an ordeal in the stalls," said the trainer.

    "The horse next door got upset and Frankie said Cracksman lunged forward just before the stalls opened and gave his head an almighty whack, which is why he missed the break.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Frankie gave him eight almighty whacks in the last furlongs as well. Hope he recovered.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    He didn't miss the break. The horse beside him missed the break.


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