A legalise drugs thread. This time it’s different.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 11:07PM

italodisco wrote:

Easy spot who's not from Dublin / from an area ravaged by heroin.

Heroin, only in Dublin! Are you for real! It's in every nuck and cranny of this country now, and has been for years! It can be easily argued that alcohol and tobacco are just as dangerous as heroin, if not worse.

Arghus · 31-05-2018 11:07PM

So far this is not so different.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 11:09PM

italodisco wrote: »

Yes sure decriminalising one of the most addictive soul destroying substances on the planet is sure to help....

Supports are in place and have been for a very long time.

I think you'll find the issues with heroin, in Dublin anyway, are more on a social level.

Much of the harm comes from the fact that it’s illegal. Provide it on prescription and you do a number of things:

- take the market from the dealers and gain the ability to control and regulate it, making it harder for the next generation to take it up
- provide clean drugs. Clinically pure heroin, while addictive, is far less harmful than street heroin
- couple that with clean needles and facilities to shoot up
addicts
- use this as an opportunity to give addicts an alternative and actually attempt to rehabilitate them
- greatly reduce violent crime. Anyone who knows an addict knows that they are soft as ****e once they’ve had a hit.
- free up the massive amount of resources currently used to prosecute

If you haven’t read the link in the OP about Portugal, I suggest you give it a read.

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:10PM

This is a post about decriminalisation in Ireland, focus on Ireland.

Growing up in Teresa's gardens watching gear head zombies floating around all day long, the majority of friends having a gear head brother or sister in the family, the numerous unsuccessful attempts at putting them through treatment only for them to end up strung out to bits again a few months later, hepatitis C killing off half the users in the area....

Compared to maybe two alcoholic men from the flats that lived into their 70s....

Not going to debate this with you, I've lived it, witnessed it life long growing up, don't tell me me dublin has a alcoholism problem up there with heroin abuse

Jerichoholic · 31-05-2018 11:10PM

The coke problem in this country is absolutely crazy now. You can't legalize it, it would get completely out of hand.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 11:12PM

Jerichoholic wrote:

The coke problem in this country is absolutely crazy now. You can't legalize it, it would get completely out of hand.

It's been like that for years now. would it really?

Jerichoholic · 31-05-2018 11:14PM

It's never been like it is now. It's grown rapidly in the last 5 years.

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:15PM

italodisco wrote: »

This is a post about decriminalisation in Ireland, focus on Ireland.

You can't cut off examples of what works because it doesn't fit your narrative.

italodisco wrote: »

Growing up in Teresa's gardens watching gear head zombies floating around all day long, the majority of friends having a gear head brother or sister in the family, the numerous unsuccessful attempts at putting them through treatment only for them to end up strung out to bits again a few months later, hepatitis C killing off half the users in the area....

Heroin doesn't cause HepC. Forcing heroin underground causes HepC.

italodisco wrote: »

Compared to maybe two alcoholic men from the flats that lived into their 70s....

So did Lou Reed (just!) If Alcohol was illegal those lads would have died in their 30's from drinking illegal shyte.

italodisco wrote: »

Not going to debate this with you, I've lived it, witnessed it life long growing up, don't tell me me dublin has a alcoholism problem up there with heroin abuse

No largely because it's not illegal. Look at the issues prohibition caused in the States.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 11:15PM

italodisco wrote: »

This is a post about decriminalisation in Ireland, focus on Ireland.

Growing up in Teresa's gardens watching gear head zombies floating around all day long, the majority of friends having a gear head brother or sister in the family, the numerous unsuccessful attempts at putting them through treatment only for them to end up strung out to bits again a few months later, hepatitis C killing off half the users in the area....

Compared to maybe two alcoholic men from the flats that lived into their 70s....

Not going to debate this with you, I've lived it, witnessed it life long growing up, don't tell me me dublin has a alcoholism problem up there with heroin abuse

Hep C could be eliminated if heroin was administer in a controlled way with clean needles. It’s not the heroin that gives you Hep C.

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:16PM

Jerichoholic wrote: »

The coke problem in this country is absolutely crazy now. You can't legalize it, it would get completely out of hand.

Honest question. Do you think more people would do Coke if possession was decriminalised or are people who want to do Coke, probably doing Coke?

P_1 · 31-05-2018 11:17PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Well it's better than the alternative. The OP is proposing legalising all drugs. That's absolutely ridiculous.

So you'd be happy enough for your ambulance driver to arrive to pick you up monged off his head on grass. Bleary-eyed dropping you to the hospital via KFC because he got the munchies.

Young people these days are running riot. Imagine what it would be liken it you add disco biscuits to the mix.

I assume you're also happy with your ambulance driver being geeeyed from his 10 pints and few chasers in that case...

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:19PM

stimpson wrote: »

Much of the harm comes from the fact that it’s illegal. Provide it on prescription and you do a number of things:

- take the market from the dealers and gain the ability to control and regulate it, making it harder for the next generation to take it up
- provide clean drugs. Clinically pure heroin, while addictive, is far less harmful than street heroin
- couple that with clean needles and facilities to shoot up
addicts
- use this as an opportunity to give addicts an alternative and actually attempt to rehabilitate them
- greatly reduce violent crime. Anyone who knows an addict knows that they are soft as ****e once they’ve had a hit.
- free up the massive amount of resources currently used to prosecute

If you haven’t read the link in the OP about Portugal, I suggest you give it a read.

-Clean needles are readily available, there's at least 6 needle exchanges we're im living with a que of users and the occasional bodybuilder mixed in with them on a daily basis.

-There are plenty of resources there to help addicts rehabilitate

-reduce violent crime? The majority of violent crimes in our big cities are not carried out by addicts, heroin addicts are typically opportunists, Ive had plenty of run in with them over the years, a 12 year old boy could boot the head off one.

- providing clean drugs is all well and good if it's e's and weed, you don't end up strung out to bits off them (unless you lived through the early dance music scene in the 90s and ended up on heroin due to using it to come down off pills), heroin though, it just takes a couple of tries to be be hooked unless you are EXTREMELY strong willed

- look at benzo's, nobody gets done for possession of benzo's, I could walk out my door now and get a handful of strips without hassle.
Look at how foked folk are now from using them, walk down talbot street any time of day and you'll see it. Lots of treatment options available too, it ain't working though.

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:21PM

stimpson wrote: »

Hep C could be eliminated if heroin was administer in a controlled way with clean needles. It’s not the heroin that gives you Hep C.

Where are you living? Needle exchanges are everywhere in Dublin, everywhere.

I even have bodybuilding mates that go to needle exchanges specifically set up to cater for steroid users due to the recent popularity in steroid use.

There's 6 in my area alone, go 10 mins down the road there's 3 with walking distance of each other, there's a certain charity that give out sharps and wipes throughout the night too.

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:23PM

stimpson wrote: »

Hep C could be eliminated if heroin was administer in a controlled way with clean needles. It’s not the heroin that gives you Hep C.

I'll agree though, we certainly need injection rooms

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:24PM

italodisco wrote: »

Where are you living? Needle exchanges are everywhere in Dublin, everywhere.

I even have bodybuilding mates that go to needle exchanges specifically set up to cater for steroid users due to the recent popularity in steroid use.

There's 6 in my area alone, go 10 mins down the road there's 3 with walking distance of each other, there's a certain charity that give out sharps and wipes throughout the night too.

The issue there is one associates a certain level of disorganisation with your garden variety Heroin connoisseur. If there were 24 hour facilities where these people could get their fix, a one stop shop if you will, there would be a massive drop in overall crime.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 11:24PM

italodisco wrote: »

-

- providing clean drugs is all well and good if it's e's and weed, you don't end up strung out to bits off them (unless you lived through the early dance music scene in the 90s and ended up on heroin due to using it to come down off pills), heroin though, it just takes a couple of tries to be be hooked unless you are EXTREMELY strong willed

If the government own the heroin market, you will only be able to get it from a doctor. You visit the clinic, see the doctor, get a new needle and your dose. Take it there and then. On you go with your day. How is anyone going to get their hands on any when the supply is tightly controlled? This is key. It gives the government the ability to regulate it. There is nothing stopping a teenager from scoring some gear and trying it out right now. The current system is broken and needs change.

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:25PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You can't cut off examples of what works because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Heroin doesn't cause HepC. Forcing heroin underground causes HepC.

So did Lou Reed (just!) If Alcohol was illegal those lads would have died in their 30's from drinking illegal shyte.

No largely because it's not illegal. Look at the issues prohibition caused in the States.

Don't know where you live but heroin ain't underground where I am, people bang up in phone boxes, bus shelters, benches in the park. Coppers stroll on by, can't blame them either....

wexie · 31-05-2018 11:25PM

italodisco wrote: »

-Clean needles are readily available, there's at least 6 needle exchanges we're im living with a que of users and the occasional bodybuilder mixed in with them on a daily basis.

-There are plenty of resources there to help addicts rehabilitate

-reduce violent crime? The majority of violent crimes in our big cities are not carried out by addicts, heroin addicts are typically opportunists, Ive had plenty of run in with them over the years, a 12 year old boy could boot the head off one.

- providing clean drugs is all well and good if it's e's and weed, you don't end up strung out to bits off them (unless you lived through the early dance music scene in the 90s and ended up on heroin due to using it to come down off pills), heroin though, it just takes a couple of tries to be be hooked unless you are EXTREMELY strong willed

- look at benzo's, nobody gets done for possession of benzo's, I could walk out my door now and get a handful of strips without hassle.
Look at how foked folk are now from using them, walk down talbot street any time of day and you'll see it. Lots of treatment options available too, it ain't working though.

Okay so....I'm not going to argue with your experiences cause I can't.

But what do you think the solution would be then? Or the first step to a solution?

I think we can probably agree on the fact the current approach isn't exactly working out too well?

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:27PM

italodisco wrote: »

Don't know where you live but heroin ain't underground where I am, people bang up in phone boxes, bus shelters, benches in the park. Coppers stroll on by, can't blame them either....

Dublin 8 for ten years and now Dublin 5. I've my fair share of experience with Heroin users. That's not what I mean by underground, I'm talking about prohibition and the surrounding issues that causes directly.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 11:27PM

italodisco wrote:

Don't know where you live but heroin ain't underground where I am, people bang up in phone boxes, bus shelters, benches in the park. Coppers stroll on by, can't blame them either....

It's a health issue, not a legal issue

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:27PM

stimpson wrote: »

If the government own the heroin market, you will only be able to get it from a doctor. You visit the clinic, see the doctor, get a new needle and your dose. Take it there and then. On you go with your day. How is anyone going to get their hands on any when the supply is tightly controlled? This is key. It gives the government the ability to regulate it. There is nothing stopping a teenager from scoring some gear and trying it out right now. The current system is broken and needs change.

If it is restricted to a gp giving it out then there'll still be dealers selling it, fairnenough its very rare nowadays to find a lot of new users, most of the new generation are strung out on blueys, zimos and upjohns

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:28PM

italodisco wrote: »

If it is restricted to a gp giving it out then there'll still be dealers selling it, fairnenough its very rare nowadays to find a lot of new users, most of the new generation are strung out on blueys, zimos and upjohns

Okay I'm gonna admit to having to google that. :pac:

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:32PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's a health issue, not a legal issue

Well the reality is that heroin is going to be the least of our worries soon, the health system is going to be over run with serious cases of benzo addiction any time now judging by the endless empty strips of diazepam and zanax all over the streets around the city centre.

I asked a junkie about it one day, he said heroin has become fierce hard to get the last year so they bang 30mg of diazepam down the hatch and lash a can into them and it has a similar effect and its easy to source.

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:33PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Okay I'm gonna admit to having to google that. :pac:

Sorry it's the towny in me lol

screamer · 31-05-2018 11:33PM

Absolutely no problem....people are taking these illegal substances..... Whether we like it or not, people are dying from drugs, people take them in secret and don't feel safe to seek medical attention for fear of prosecution...... It's a reality we need to face up to and show compassion....sound familiar?
So if we can legalise abortion on medical and compassionate grounds, drugs are no different at all, legalise them and grow up Ireland.

PARlance · 31-05-2018 11:34PM

Jerichoholic wrote: »

The coke problem in this country is absolutely crazy now. You can't legalize it, it would get completely out of hand.

I would say it's completely out of hand at present. It's part a normal night out for the average joe in a lot of cases.

wexie · 31-05-2018 11:35PM

italodisco wrote: »

Well the reality is that heroin is going to be the least of our worries soon, the health system is going to be over run with serious cases of benzo addiction any time now judging by the endless empty strips of diazepam and zanax all over the streets around the city centre.

From how it's been explained to me benzos are actually harder to get off of than heroine

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:35PM

italodisco wrote: »

Sorry it's the towny in me lol

Thanks for the other side Italodisco, highly encourage you to fill out the survey with your experience if you haven't already. Far too many people like me shouting about this. Balance is certainly needed.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 11:36PM

italodisco wrote:

Well the reality is that heroin is going to be the least of our worries soon, the health system is going to be over run with serious cases of benzo addiction any time now judging by the endless empty strips of diazepam and zanax all over the streets around the city centre.

Already on the radar of some in the health services, so I believe, you d be surprised how well informed some people are in our services. Has krokodil made it to Ireland yet?

wexie · 31-05-2018 11:37PM

screamer wrote: »

Absolutely no problem....people are taking these illegal substances..... Whether we like it or not, people are dying from drugs, people take them in secret and don't feel safe to seek medical attention for fear of prosecution...... It's a reality we need to face up to and show compassion....sound familiar?

I don't know if this still happens (been out of the country a long time) but back in the day in Holland the cops realized this very thing and it culminated with there being stands at raves where you could get your drugs tested....by the police who would then give it back (or not) with an approval : this is good ****.

They realized they weren't going to stop kids taking this stuff (E mostly) and shifted the focus on stopping kids dying from bad stuff.

A legalise drugs thread. This time it’s different.

Comments