Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 02:24PM

Faugheen wrote: »

I know for a fact that he got 2, and then they were withdrawn when the clubs realised how bad he was for their brand.

Nothing to say about how he shouldn't be held accountable? You think he should be allowed to just walk back into his privileged 400k a year job just because a court found him not guilty?

We have different standards for our high-ranking civil servants than we do of our sportsmen if that's the case.

The fervour and faux outrage has dissipated so much that Olding now has a contract.
There will come a point for Jackson too.

And you will just have to get over that.

This is just revealingly hilarious in fairness.

You think he should be allowed to just walk back into his privileged 400k a year job just because a court found him not guilty?

30-05-2018 02:30PM

razorblunt wrote: »

It's funny how people are citing the What's App messages when, Gilroy, one of the main culprits for the lewd chat finished off the season nicely with Ulster and will be there next year.

I think he missed two matches and had to apologise to twitter. His language was arguably the worst so to claim its attitude towards women that's keeping PJ and SO out is simply not true. They are still guilty of rape in the mob's eyes.

facehugger99 · 30-05-2018 02:39PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The fervour and faux outrage has dissipated so much that Olding now has a contract.
There will come a point for Jackson too.

And you will just have to get over that.

This is just revealingly hilarious in fairness.

I'm sure you're right as usual Francie lad

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There will be plenty of interest in Jackson if he makes himself available. Wouldn't be suprised if he had a deal done before the IRFU made it's decision.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is now a distinct possibility. For Jackson at least, he is playing for a top team in Europe right under the noses of the Irish rugby public.
The IRFU were careful to not say these are life bans, and Jackson and Olding very clearly stated their intentions to 'prove' themselves again and to 'rebuild the trust'.
They are very carefully crafted statements.

You think if he develops into the player he promised to be that there will not be calls for him to be re-instated that will drown out the mob?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jackson heading to Clermont.
Olding heading to Exeter.

Brilliant, two good enough teams and still in the Irish public eye. Delighted.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Olding and Jackson are also suing the BBC in what looks like an open and shut case. Probably won't even go to court.

Might force some action on anonymity in future cases.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, but as deportations go, it isn't too bad.
Playing in the Irish public eye gives Jackson and Olding every chance to get back on the Irish team after a time. Maybe even for the World Cup squad.
I am sure the mob will have distracted themselves with some other poor bastards career and life by then.

*Beginning to wonder if this was all concocted by the IRFU. Such a good outcome out of a bad situation for the lads, if stories are true.

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 02:41PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The fervour and faux outrage has dissipated so much that Olding now has a contract.
There will come a point for Jackson too.

And you will just have to get over that.

This is just revealingly hilarious in fairness.

So you don't think they should be held accountable. Nice to know you support the way your wife and daughters are treated so.

Also, you were the one that that thought it was all forms of a disgrace that they were sacked in the first place. So don't tell me to 'get over it'. I'm more an entitled to give an opinion on people who abuse their privileged positions, get caught, and then use said positions to do what they want (which backfired in Jackson's case).

Deleted User wrote: »

I think he missed two matches and had to apologise to twitter. His language was arguably the worst so to claim its attitude towards women that's keeping PJ and SO out is simply not true. They are still guilty of rape in the mob's eyes.

A woman didn't leave Gilroy's company bleeding and in hysterics.

Anyone who thinks what Gilroy did is on the same level as Jackson and Olding then they really don't get it.

Jackson and Olding weren't just sacked for the WhatsApp messages, it was for their behaviour which became clear throughout the trial that brought their respective positions into disrepute. This happens in all walks of life.

Triangle · 30-05-2018 02:42PM

Faugheen wrote: »

So you don't think Tony O'Brien should have been held accountable? Or Martin Callinan and his subsequent successor Noirin O'Sullivan?

If you think they should be held accountable then fine, but just remember they weren't found guilty in court either.

Jackson, like others in high-paying positions and in the public eye, should be held accountable when he makes a bags of it and you don't need a guilty verdict for that.

What I'm saying is that this outrage about mistreatment of women is solely pointed at male figureheads. Women who were in directly accountable positions as opposed to indirectly accountable positions were actually promoted for their mistreatment of women.
Mistreatment of people (edit: irrespective of gender) is wrong, Just like the bowel cancer issue in 2016 in wexford (similar story to this one in misdiagnosis)

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 02:47PM

Faugheen wrote: »

So you don't think they should be held accountable. Nice to know you support the way your wife and daughters are treated so.

You just get better and better.

Also, you were the one that that thought it was all forms of a disgrace that they were sacked in the first place. So don't tell me to 'get over it'. I'm more an entitled to give an opinion on people who abuse their privileged positions, get caught, and then use said positions to do what they want (which backfired in Jackson's case).

You are doing great at making the best of normality returning (predictably) for these players. Carry on.

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 02:47PM

Triangle wrote: »

What I'm saying is that this outrage about mistreatment of women is solely pointed at male figureheads. Women who were in directly accountable positions as opposed to indirectly accountable positions were actually promoted for their mistreatment of women.
Mistreatment of people (edit: irrespective of gender) is wrong, Just like the bowel cancer issue in 2016 in wexford (similar story to this one in misdiagnosis)

That's not true. Grainne Flannelly got just as much of it if not more than O'Brien as the clinical director of CervicalCheck before she stepped down and it would be incoherently wrong to suggest otherwise.

I do see what you're getting at, though.

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 02:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You just get better and better.

You are doing great at making the best of normality returning (predictably) for these players. Carry on.

And you carry on promoting performing sexual acts on sleeping women.

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 02:51PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm sure you're right as usual Francie lad

The signing of Olding was headline sports news here. There will, of course, be interest in how he is getting on among real Irish rugby fans.
Must be a killer for those who want these guys living in penury for the rest of their days. Ah well...;)

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 02:52PM

Faugheen wrote: »

And you carry on promoting performing sexual acts on sleeping women.

Ha ha ha. The bitterness is strong Faugheen, very strong. Get out and enjoy the evening sun maybe?

Muahahaha · 30-05-2018 02:54PM

razorblunt wrote: »

If he played anything more than a full season for Waikato before going Super it would be a lot.

Couple of more years in Japan after that, few medical joker signings in Europe and he could have a decent nest egg sorted for himself.

I would tend to agree with that but I dont think it is set in stone either. The decision for his progress will always have to be run by the sponsors who pay the wages. Super 14 teams have blue chip sponsors who are global brands, the likes of Heineken, AIG, HSBC, etc and if their marketing depts thought for one minute that Jackson playing for the rugby club that they throw several million a year into would hurt their global brand in any way, shape or form then the deal would be off IMO. It is the nature of the beast nowadays and Jackson doesnt have a clear road ahead of him just yet, his rehab hasnt even begun.

30-05-2018 02:55PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

............. Get out and enjoy the evening sun maybe?

Lol, u are welded to this topic for months

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 03:00PM

Augeo wrote: »

Lol, u are welded to this topic for months

I'm in the sun, drinking fizzy. Not a hint of bitterness or vengeance in the air here. :cool:

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 03:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha ha ha. The bitterness is strong Faugheen, very strong. Get out and enjoy the evening sun maybe?

I'm perfectly fine. I've predicted everything that has happened to Jackson and Olding thus far while you lived in a bubble thinking they'd walk into any club.

You point a finger of blame at everyone else except the lads™ for the predicament they find themselves in.

Also, its a privilege to be in a position to play professional sport, not a right. You **** it up, you pay the price.

If using your logic that they should just be allowed to waltz back to whatever they want to do, what does it say to the likes of Johnny McPhillips who has behaved himself and conducted himself properly?

Whatever happens to the pair of them, I don't care. I do take exception to people championing this, though, as if to get one over on people who share genuine concerns about how they treated women.

You are the above paragraph, Francie, you'd rather laugh at the 'Twitterati' and then refuse to answer any points when you're called out on it rather than understand the issues that people have with Jackson (moreso) and Olding playing professional sport again.

facehugger99 · 30-05-2018 03:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The signing of Olding was headline sports news here.

No, no it wasn't.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There will, of course, be interest in how he is getting on among real Irish rugby fans.

Doubt anyone will give a sh;te tbh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Must be a killer for those who want these guys living in penury for the rest of their days. Ah well...;)

Wonder who all those people were

You seem like you're frantically building up the strawmen so you can knock them down and declare a great victory - shall I do another trawl through your previous posts? - I got bored after page 1 the last time.

facehugger99 · 30-05-2018 03:02PM

Augeo wrote: »

Lol, u are welded to this topic for months

Coming up to his 250th post now..........:pac::pac::pac::pac:

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 03:04PM

Faugheen wrote: »

I'm perfectly fine. I've predicted everything that has happened to Jackson and Olding thus far while you lived in a bubble thinking they'd walk into any club.

You point a finger of blame at everyone else except the lads™ for the predicament they find themselves in.

Also, its a privilege to be in a position to play professional sport, not a right. You **** it up, you pay the price.

If using your logic that they should just be allowed to waltz back to whatever they want to do, what does it say to the likes of Johnny McPhillips who has behaved himself and conducted himself properly?

Whatever happens to the pair of them, I don't care. I do take exception to people championing this, though, as if to get one over on people who share genuine concerns about how they treated women.

You are are the above paragraph, Francie, you'd rather laugh at the 'Twitterati' and then refuse to answer any points when you're called out on it.

I said they would play top level rugby again after a period of time.

I believe and have said again and again that the lads behaved badly, like many lads before them. But they have paid a heavy price.

I cannot stand moral high grounders in any aspect of life.

Your lack of care for one set of people while pretending to care about others is so typical of a disappearing Irish mindset.

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 03:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said they would play top level rugby again after a period of time.

I believe and have said again and again that the lads behaved badly, like many lads before them. But they have paid a heavy price.

I cannot stand moral high grounders in any aspect of life.

Your lack of care for one set of people while pretending to care about others is so typical of a disappearing Irish mindset.

My lack of care? They've given me nothing to give any sh*t about them.

They behaved badly, yet you still think they shouldn't be held accountable for that behaviour.

You've boasted and bellowed about how they'd be earning the big bucks in England or France, which shows you don't care for how they treated someone to the point that you would be delighted for them to not only return to their privileged position that so many well-behaved lads would sell their soul for, but you'd be happy to see them earn even MORE money to do so.

You don't give a **** how they behaved on the night. Stop pretending that you do.

"Your lack of care for one set of people while pretending to care about others is so typical of a disappearing Irish mindset."

ohnonotgmail · 30-05-2018 03:17PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said they would play top level rugby again after a period of time.

I believe and have said again and again that the lads behaved badly, like many lads before them. But they have paid a heavy price.

I cannot stand moral high grounders in any aspect of life.

Your lack of care for one set of people while pretending to care about others is so typical of a disappearing Irish mindset.

Whatever about Jackson i cant see Olding playing top level rugby again. He hasnt been the same player for a while now and less than 60 games for Ulster in 6 years is not great. His versatility will make him an asset for a second tier team but that is probably where he is at career wise. If it wasnt for the presence of Jeremy Davidson at Brive i doubt they would have signed him.

Muahahaha · 30-05-2018 03:17PM

I knew I shouldnt have went on to Twitter :eek:

https://twitter.com/hear_I_am_now/status/1001148200126943232
https://twitter.com/_millmill_/status/1001129907441762304
https://twitter.com/Browssieboy/status/1001446986795704320
https://twitter.com/FrancescaJane__/status/1001437222548201472

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 04:01PM

Faugheen wrote: »

My lack of care? They've given me nothing to give any sh*t about them.

They behaved badly, yet you still think they shouldn't be held accountable for that behaviour.

You've boasted and bellowed about how they'd be earning the big bucks in England or France, which shows you don't care for how they treated someone to the point that you would be delighted for them to not only return to their privileged position that so many well-behaved lads would sell their soul for, but you'd be happy to see them earn even MORE money to do so.

You don't give a **** how they behaved on the night. Stop pretending that you do.

"Your lack of care for one set of people while pretending to care about others is so typical of a disappearing Irish mindset."

No Faugheen, I have accepted that they behaved badly and made a mistake and I recognise that they have paid a high price for that.

What I don't do is try to advocate that they pay with their careers.

You are typical of a high moral ground mindset that doesn't really care about human beings when it comes down to it, as long as your bull**** self serving moral code is complied with. Ireland was riddled with it.

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 04:03PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I knew I shouldnt have went on to Twitter :eek:

https://twitter.com/hear_I_am_now/status/1001148200126943232
https://twitter.com/_millmill_/status/1001129907441762304
https://twitter.com/Browssieboy/status/1001446986795704320
https://twitter.com/FrancescaJane__/status/1001437222548201472

There are as many complimentary posts on that twitter page.

spurious · 30-05-2018 04:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are as many complimentary posts on that twitter page.

Still, it's not going to go away.

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 04:47PM

spurious wrote: »

Still, it's not going to go away.

No it's not. There will always be a self appointed rump of moral guardians.

It's just that the numbers chasing these 'heinous criminals' has fallen away dramatically.
Other teams will be taking note and will probably go after Jackson soon. Talent will out.

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 06:36PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

My lack of care? They've given me nothing to give any sh*t about them.

They behaved badly, yet you still think they shouldn't be held accountable for that behaviour.

You've boasted and bellowed about how they'd be earning the big bucks in England or France, which shows you don't care for how they treated someone to the point that you would be delighted for them to not only return to their privileged position that so many well-behaved lads would sell their soul for, but you'd be happy to see them earn even MORE money to do so.

You don't give a **** how they behaved on the night. Stop pretending that you do.

"Your lack of care for one set of people while pretending to care about others is so typical of a disappearing Irish mindset."

No Faugheen, I have accepted that they behaved badly and made a mistake and I recognise that they have paid a high price for that.

What I don't do is try to advocate that they pay with their careers.

You are typical of a high moral ground mindset that doesn't really care about human beings when it comes down to it, as long as your bull**** self serving moral code is complied with. Ireland was riddled with it.

You don't think they should pay with their careers, fine, but don't come on here basically laughing at people who disagree with you by talking about the money they could earn someday. To me, that stinks of someone who doesn't care about what they did and that you want this redemption craic to happen so you can stick it to those who are genuinely concerned about their treatment of that woman.

As I've said, being a professional sportsman is a privilege, not a right, and with it comes responsibilities that nobody wants put it comes with the career whether you like it or not.

If Jackson is genuinely sorry as he claims, he'd stop playing the victim and suing everyone, and not only that but losing the cases too.

His mate Olding said straight away that he 'hopes' to play again, which recognises the privilege that he had. Jackson essentially made a demand to play it again as if it was his God-given right to do so.

That's why Olding has been signed but Jackson hasn't. Jackson has a hell of a lot more baggage than Olding does and all of that is his fault.

And I do care about what happened to that girl. Whatever about the night in question, but she was put on trial for 8 days, her underwear shown in court, and her name said numerous times by the defence counsels in open court in front of a packed viewing gallery of Joe Soaps who helped turn the trial into a circus, despite her right to anonymity.

She was accused of trying to play the 'perfect victim' (which is an insult to all victims of rape) by Jackson's barrister. And you want this guy to earn more money than he ever did?

Don't tell me that my opinions are self-serving. She was treated like **** both on the night in question and in court, yet some assholes want those to lads to earn so much money playing rugby to stick it to her and to stick it to those who have genuine concerns about what happened to her. Nice priorities, eh?

I want them to be held accountable for their actions. Does that mean never play again? No not so much, Olding will earn pennies what he's doing and he seems to understand the repercussions of his actions that night.

His little cowardly mate on the other hand has a lot more to prove.

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 07:01PM

Faugheen wrote: »

You don't think they should pay with their careers, fine, but don't come on here basically laughing at people who disagree with you by talking about the money they could earn someday. To me, that stinks of someone who doesn't care about what they did and that you want this redemption craic to happen so you can stick it to those who are genuinely concerned about their treatment of that woman.

As I've said, being a professional sportsman is a privilege, not a right, and with it comes responsibilities that nobody wants put it comes with the career whether you like it or not.

If Jackson is genuinely sorry as he claims, he'd stop playing the victim and suing everyone, and not only that but losing the cases too.

His mate Olding said straight away that he 'hopes' to play again, which recognises the privilege that he had. Jackson essentially made a demand to play it again as if it was his God-given right to do so.

That's why Olding has been signed but Jackson hasn't. Jackson has a hell of a lot more baggage than Olding does and all of that is his fault.

And I do care about what happened to that girl. Whatever about the night in question, but she was put on trial for 8 days, her underwear shown in court, and her name said numerous times by the defence counsels in open court in front of a packed viewing gallery of Joe Soaps who helped turn the trial into a circus, despite her right to anonymity.

She was accused of trying to play the 'perfect victim' (which is an insult to all victims of rape) by Jackson's barrister. And you want this guy to earn more money than he ever did?

Don't tell me that my opinions are self-serving. She was treated like **** both on the night in question and in court, yet some assholes want those to lads to earn so much money playing rugby to stick it to her and to stick it to those who have genuine concerns about what happened to her. Nice priorities, eh?

I want them to be held accountable for their actions. Does that mean never play again? No not so much, Olding will earn pennies what he's doing and he seems to understand the repercussions of his actions that night.

His little cowardly mate on the other hand has a lot more to prove.

I didn't read it ^^ after the preachy first sentence, but I suspect that to be more moralising about what everybody else should do whether they feel they have been wrongly vilified or have had their careers destroyed by a mob with little else to do but poke their noses in others bedrooms essentially.

RabbleRouser2k · 30-05-2018 07:19PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't read it ^^ after the preachy first sentence, but I suspect that to be more moralising about what everybody else should do whether they feel they have been wrongly vilified or have had their careers destroyed by a mob with little else to do but poke their noses in others bedrooms essentially.

It wasn't a mob 'poking their noses in'-it was a very high profile rape case which exposed those in the trial as rather nasty individuals.
This was far different to enquiring into one's bedroom antics-it was a court.

It was in the media-you couldn't avoid it.

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 07:33PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

It wasn't a mob 'poking their noses in'-it was a very high profile rape case which exposed those in the trial as rather nasty individuals.
This was far different to enquiring into one's bedroom antics-it was a court.

It was in the media-you couldn't avoid it.

It was a Not guilty of rape verdict in a case were it was revealed that some rugby players made private nasty comments about one woman.

Of course what we then witnessed was the braying of a mob that didn't get the blood they thought they were entitled to. And now, since the majority of that mob have lost interest, we have a few who want and wish for career long vengeance for what was essentially a few rude comments about one woman.

Dressing those comments up as comments about 'womankind' is asembarrassing as it ever was.

Faugheen · 30-05-2018 07:39PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

It wasn't a mob 'poking their noses in'-it was a very high profile rape case which exposed those in the trial as rather nasty individuals.
This was far different to enquiring into one's bedroom antics-it was a court.

It was in the media-you couldn't avoid it.

It was a Not guilty of rape verdict in a case were it was revealed that some rugby players made private nasty comments about one woman.

Of course what we then witnessed was the braying of a mob that didn't get the blood they thought they were entitled to. And now, since the majority of that mob have lost interest, we have a few who want and wish for career long vengeance for what was essentially a few rude comments about one woman.

Dressing those comments up as comments about 'womankind' is asembarrassing as it ever was.

It wasn't just the text messages. You don't get it.

Jackson's barrister described someone as the 'perfect rape victim' which tells the public what a rape victim looks like. Whether you believe her story or not, that's a disgraceful comment to make and it ties in to your narrative about people telling others how they should feel, which you find the idea of deplorable. Jackson may not have said those words, but someone else did on his behalf.

Not to mention what came out after the trial. More blood stains? They weren't hers, granted, but is she then the only girl that he's made bleed through his actions? Very possible that she wasn't. What else does this say about him and his treatment of women in his company?

You're basing everyone else's arguments off the text messages, which is absolutely not the texts. If this was the case, Gilroy would have lost his job too.

FrancieBrady · 30-05-2018 07:46PM

Faugheen wrote: »

It wasn't just the text messages. You don't get it.

Jackson's barrister described someone as the 'perfect rape victim' which tells the public what a rape victim looks like. Whether you believe her story or not, that's a disgraceful comment to make and it ties in to your narrative about people telling others how they should feel, which you find the idea of deplorable. Jackson may not have said those words, but someone else did on his behalf.

Not to mention what came out after the trial. More blood stains? They weren't hers, granted, but is she then the only girl that he's made bleed through his actions? Very possible that she wasn't. What else does this say about him and his treatment of women in his company?

You're basing everyone else's arguments off the text messages, which is absolutely not the texts. If this was the case, Gilroy would have lost his job too.

Sure why not fire in some sensationalist speculation. I mean Jackson has to be got, eh? :rolleyes:

Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

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