Nct failure on high emissions

Chad111 · 27-05-2018 01:42AM #1

I had my nct last week and failed on high emissions.

Low idle co 0.09 vol% pass
Lambda 0.98 pass
High idle co 0.66 vol % FAIL

I PUT DIPTANE and drove it hard. Put another bottle and did italian tune up on motorway before test. Reached at test centre and car went for nct straightaway.

Now high idle co is 0.42% . Still fail as it's above 0.20. Please suggest the reason of high emissions and way out.

I'll be grateful

Stoolbend · 27-05-2018 02:46AM

Like every other thread on emissions.

Make, model and engine size?

Looks like cat but who knows.

Chad111 · 27-05-2018 03:10AM

Stoolbend wrote: »

Like every other thread on emissions.

Make, model and engine size?

Looks like cat but who knows.

Ford focus 1.4 lx petrol. 2005 . 150 k
Changed cat about 6 months ago but from scrapyard.

Bmw123d · 27-05-2018 11:07AM

Chad111 wrote: »

Ford focus 1.4 lx petrol. 2005 . 150 k
Changed cat about 6 months ago but from scrapyard.

The cats give trouble on them all the time. So that could be ur problem. But I’ve defo changed a few lambda sensors on them down the years. In fairness being on hear is all well and good asking but without me doing me own or anyone else for that matter doing the checks. It’s all just guess work.

But my money is on either of what I’ve mentioned.

rex-x · 27-05-2018 11:56AM

The lambda reading is slightly rich which will increase the co reading but it shouldnt be an issue for a good cat. Unfortunately for you it really can only be your cat thats gone bad.

Chad111 · 27-05-2018 05:19PM

rex-x wrote: »

The lambda reading is slightly rich which will increase the co reading but it shouldnt be an issue for a good cat. Unfortunately for you it really can only be your cat thats gone bad.

I have changed Cat In last Oct but it was used. Any advice for buying a good cat but not too dear. Already spent money on few things. What is universal cat?

Another thing I forgot to mention is that car is burning too much oil for the last few months. I couldn't find any whitish stuff in engine oil or coolant. Is it also because of cat or something else.

rex-x · 27-05-2018 06:19PM

Chad111 wrote: »

I have changed Cat In last Oct but it was used. Any advice for buying a good cat but not too dear. Already spent money on few things. What is universal cat?

Another thing I forgot to mention is that car is burning too much oil for the last few months. I couldn't find any whitish stuff in engine oil or coolant. Is it also because of cat or something else.

Get a low mile second hand genuine cat it's the only way. Don't go near universal ones

Chad111 · 27-05-2018 09:11PM

rex-x wrote: »

Get a low mile second hand genuine cat it's the only way. Don't go near universal ones

Thank you for the reply. As you said cat is the only option so i will start looking. Had a bad experience last time.it was original n used but lasted for only 6 months. Should o only replace cat or sensors also.

Bmw123d · 27-05-2018 09:50PM

Chad111 wrote: »

Thank you for the reply. As you said cat is the only option so i will start looking. Had a bad experience last time.it was original n used but lasted for only 6 months. Should o only replace cat or sensors also.

Use the sensors that come in the replacement cat

Chad111 · 28-05-2018 06:07PM

Bmw123d wrote: »

Use the sensors that come in the replacement cat

Went to a local garage today. He checked and changed the temp sensor today and said it would be fine for nct. He said there is no engine light and cat looks fine. Confused again

Bmw123d · 28-05-2018 06:58PM

Chad111 wrote: »

Went to a local garage today. He checked and changed the temp sensor today and said it would be fine for nct. He said there is no engine light and cat looks fine. Confused again

I did tell u the sensors from the start. And look it was done. I told u that any one that’s done abit with them focuses would know that them sensor do go. So I’d take his word on it and retest it.

Best of look

Chad111 · 29-05-2018 07:44PM

Bmw123d wrote: »

I did tell u the sensors from the start. And look it was done. I told u that any one that’s done abit with them focuses would know that them sensor do go. So I’d take his word on it and retest it.

Best of look

Just an update.

Had nct today but failed again on emissions

High idle reading was 0.71 even higher than last time which was.0.42.

So ect sensor change is not the solution. Now Machanic is saying that changr 2nd lambda sensor. I think it hit and try situation here. As per his opinion cat would be last thing as there is no engine light on and readings are not that unusual.

Already had nct 3 times and still problem is not diagnosed.

rex-x · 29-05-2018 07:47PM

Chad111 wrote: »

Just an update.

Had nct today but failed again on emissions

High idle reading was 0.71 even higher than last time which was.0.42.

So ect sensor change is not the solution. Now Machanic is saying that changr 2nd lambda sensor. I think it hit and try situation here. As per his opinion cat would be last thing as there is no engine light on and readings are not that unusual.

Already had nct 3 times and still problem is not diagnosed.

The problem is the cat. The 2nd lambda sensor doesn't control the emissions so I don't know where he is going there! Get a good 2nd hand cat and use your original sensors and your problem will be gone
It was never the coolant sensor and never could have been from your readings.

Leonard Hofstadter · 29-05-2018 08:07PM

What are the HC emissions like? Is it burning oil? I note you haven't posted those readings. It probably is the cat, as previously mentioned, but it would be worth knowing the answers to the above.

The post-cat sensor is supposed to monitor the efficacy of the cat. It would have little to no affect on the running of the engine.

Chad111 · 29-05-2018 08:23PM

captainspeed wrote: »

What are the HC emissions like? Is it burning oil? I note you haven't posted those readings. It probably is the cat, as previously mentioned, but it would be worth knowing the answers to the above.

The post-cat sensor is supposed to monitor the efficacy of the cat. It would have little to no affect on the running of the engine.

Reading at first nct.

Low idle co 0.09 vol% pass
Lambda 0.98 pass
High idle co 0.66 vol % FAIL

Then advised to put dipetane but failed again

Low idle and lambda same
High idle. 0.42 but fail

Then advised to change ect sensor but again failed

High idle 0.71 vol%

Now Machanic opinion is to change 2nd lambda sensor which will not change the emissions readings as explained by one of member. SO CAT LOOKS the only option. If knew earlier I wouldn't have wasted money on nct retests and labour/part charges.

Car is also being oil and you see a black carbon and water when cold start

crosshair1 · 29-05-2018 08:43PM

As you've been told already, it needs a cat.
The lambda value is ok, on the richer side, 2 tests have confirmed that the air/fuel ratio is acceptable when testing - this suggests that the engine is running in closed loop and that all is in order on that side.
The co is ok at idle and failing at high idle - this is classic cat failure.
The test for this is to check the output from both o2 sensors and if sensor 2 is switching like 1 then the cat is not doing its job.
I would guess its about a 50/50 of getting a working one from a breakers.

Leonard Hofstadter · 29-05-2018 09:27PM

The only way the cat will really be fixed is by getting a new one. Since it's a Ford they can't be that expensive.

As they say, buy cheap buy twice.

You still haven't told us what the HC readings are. We've got the CO ones but not the HC.

If they're high it could be because the engine is worn out or burning copious quantities of oil - and a new cat won't fix that.

If it goes at least 600 miles or 1000 km on a litre of oil then oil consumption won't cause it to fail an emissions test.

Chad111 · 29-05-2018 09:39PM

captainspeed wrote: »

The only way the cat will really be fixed is by getting a new one. Since it's a Ford they can't be that expensive.

As they say, buy cheap buy twice.

You still haven't told us what the HC readings are. We've got the CO ones but not the HC.

If they're high it could be because the engine is worn out or burning copious quantities of oil - and a new cat won't fix that.

If it goes at least 600 miles or 1000 km on a litre of oil then oil consumption won't cause it to fail an emissions test.

I understand but Machanic argument is that car is not loosing power , no rattling sound and no check engine lights on. As I don't wanted to spend much so took a chance. You are right that buying a cat from yard would be a chance again. I bought the cat about 6 months ago from yard it fails nct. Anyway as suggested o would have to go for another used cat and take a chance. Would you think that burning oil is also because of bad cat?

Is the cat same for 1.4 and 1.6 of 2005 focus

Thanks a million

rex-x · 29-05-2018 09:42PM

Chad111 wrote: »

I understand but Machanic argument is that car is not loosing power , no rattling sound and no check engine lights on. As I don't wanted to spend much so took a chance. You are right that buying a cat from yard would be a chance again. I bought the cat about 6 months ago from yard it fails nct. Anyway as suggested o would have to go for another used cat and take a chance. Would you think that burning oil is also because of bad cat?

Thanks a million

Your mechanic sounds like an idiot if that's his argument to be honest. He has no idea what he's doing

Chad111 · 29-05-2018 09:55PM

captainspeed wrote: »

The only way the cat will really be fixed is by getting a new one. Since it's a Ford they can't be that expensive.

As they say, buy cheap buy twice.

You still haven't told us what the HC readings are. We've got the CO ones but not the HC.

If they're high it could be because the engine is worn out or burning copious quantities of oil - and a new cat won't fix that.

If it goes at least 600 miles or 1000 km on a litre of oil then oil consumption won't cause it to fail an emissions test.

Low idle co 0.09
(810)rpm HC 26 ppm

Lambda 0.98

High idle co 0.66
(3150)rpm HC 96ppm

Engine oil temp 83 c

Leonard Hofstadter · 29-05-2018 10:02PM

Chad111 wrote: »

I understand but Machanic argument is that car is not loosing power , no rattling sound and no check engine lights on. As I don't wanted to spend much so took a chance. You are right that buying a cat from yard would be a chance again. I bought the cat about 6 months ago from yard it fails nct. Anyway as suggested o would have to go for another used cat and take a chance. Would you think that burning oil is also because of bad cat?

Is the cat same for 1.4 and 1.6 of 2005 focus

Thanks a million

I don't know if they're the same, but I do know if you'd paid out for a new one in the beginning you wouldn't still be having problems with it.

Burning oil is nothing to do with a faulty cat - but sustained oil burning will shorten the life of a catalytic converter for sure and eventually wear it out.

As I mentioned previously, unless it's using more than a litre of oil every 600 miles or 1000 km, it's unlikely to be the cause of your problem.

I'm not familiar with Fords but many petrol engines do burn a bit of oil as they get older and it's fine once it's not more than the threshold I mentioned above.

The HC is fairly high at high idle (so it must be using some oil) although it's still well below the acceptable limit. My money is on it needing a new cat, as the others have mentioned.

Chad111 · 30-05-2018 11:59PM

I am going to change used cat converter tom. I have been advised to drain the old oil and put 15w 40 before cat change. Does it make any difference for nct. I was using 5w30 earlier.

Anybody have an idea about 2005 1.4 ford focus cat change. Will it be simple fix or any welding invloved.

Thanks

rex-x · 31-05-2018 12:01AM

Chad111 wrote: »

I am going to change used cat converter tom. I have been advised to drain the old oil and put 15w 40 before cat change. Does it make any difference for nct. I was using 5w30 earlier.

Anybody have an idea about 2005 1.4 ford focus cat change. Will it be simple fix or any welding invloved.

Thanks

Put the correct oil in. Fords of that era take 5w30 semi synthetic not fully. You will probably only be able to get it in a motorfactors

tcawley29 · 31-05-2018 02:08AM

rex-x wrote: »

Put the correct oil I'm. Fords of that era take 5w30 semi synthetic not fully. You will probably only be able to get it in a motorfactors

I thought with older engines you could put in a slightly thicker grade?

I remember in my corollas manual there was quite a few grades listed (depending on climate temperature).

I looked at the time as a dealer used 10w40 to service it and I thought it was supposed to get 5w30. Only difference I noticed was slightly better mpg when I did that. Not enough to be a big deal.

rex-x · 31-05-2018 03:16AM

tcawley29 wrote: »

I thought with older engines you could put in a slightly thicker grade?

I remember in my corollas manual there was quite a few grades listed (depending on climate temperature).

I looked at the time as a dealer used 10w40 to service it and I thought it was supposed to get 5w30. Only difference I noticed was slightly better mpg when I did that. Not enough to be a big deal.

Fords are fussy, they like their specific 5w30 semi synth oil (The only manufacturer I know of that uses it)

Leonard Hofstadter · 31-05-2018 11:10AM

tcawley29 wrote: »

I thought with older engines you could put in a slightly thicker grade?

I remember in my corollas manual there was quite a few grades listed (depending on climate temperature).

I looked at the time as a dealer used 10w40 to service it and I thought it was supposed to get 5w30. Only difference I noticed was slightly better mpg when I did that. Not enough to be a big deal.

Using 10W40 will use a little more fuel than 5W30. It also won't offer the same protection for the engine when it is cold.

The reason to go for thicker oil is when a car starts burning some, 10W40 will cut oil consumption down fairly handily compared to 5W30. Excess oil consumption will cause higher HC emissions and will damage the catalytic converter, O2 sensors etc.

If we had a hotter climate then yes thicker oil is necessary, otherwise the engine won't be properly protected when it's fully warmed up with all the heat, but 5W30 should be fine for most cars in this country.

tcawley29 · 31-05-2018 12:34PM

captainspeed wrote: »

Using 10W40 will use a little more fuel than 5W30. It also won't offer the same protection for the engine when it is cold.

The reason to go for thicker oil is when a car starts burning some, 10W40 will cut oil consumption down fairly handily compared to 5W30. Excess oil consumption will cause higher HC emissions and will damage the catalytic converter, O2 sensors etc.

If we had a hotter climate then yes thicker oil is necessary, otherwise the engine won't be properly protected when it's fully warmed up with all the heat, but 5W30 should be fine for most cars in this country.

Yeah I had switched back to 5w30 myself as there was no issues with the car and it was the top recommended grade

standardg60 · 31-05-2018 07:41PM

Chad111 wrote: »

I am going to change used cat converter tom. I have been advised to drain the old oil and put 15w 40 before cat change. Does it make any difference for nct. I was using 5w30 earlier.

Anybody have an idea about 2005 1.4 ford focus cat change. Will it be simple fix or any welding invloved.

Thanks

Everyone in the game advises to do that if the car is burning oil but if the piston rings are worn, which I suspect, it won't make a scintilla of difference.

You said the the cat was changed six months ago, was it for the same reason? eg. nct emissions fail? Just change the cat, I wouldn't bother with a new oem one unless you fix the source or you'll be replacing it every year anyway.

Either do the rings or just replace the car would be my advice.

Chad111 · 01-06-2018 01:01AM

standardg60 wrote: »

Everyone in the game advises to do that if the car is burning oil but if the piston rings are worn, which I suspect, it won't make a scintilla of difference.

You said the the cat was changed six months ago, was it for the same reason? eg. nct emissions fail? Just change the cat, I wouldn't bother with a new oem one unless you fix the source or you'll be replacing it every year anyway.

Either do the rings or just replace the car would be my advice.

Changed the cat because of rattling sound. Had nct valid at that time.will be replacing cat tom and do the nct. Not happy with ford at all and will switch to toyota. Saw the old cat and flexi pipe is also broken. Not sure if it makes any difference. Already changed brakes serviced and I think it would be easy to sell with nct

Chad111 · 05-06-2018 12:20AM

Chad111 wrote: »

Changed the cat because of rattling sound. Had nct valid at that time.will be replacing cat tom and do the nct. Not happy with ford at all and will switch to toyota. Saw the old cat and flexi pipe is also broken. Not sure if it makes any difference. Already changed brakes serviced and I think it would be easy to sell with nct

Replaced the catalytic converter 3 days ago. While replacing Machanic found oil leakage into cat and in his opinion it could be demaged engine seals. But he said if nct passed you drive it for few months and scrap it. I am going for nct in 2 days time. In my case should I go with hot engine temp or cold. Also should I use dipetane before test.

I hope not much oil is leaked in cat in a week time and nct test would be pass.

Leonard Hofstadter · 05-06-2018 09:50AM

Yes, the engine should be good and hot before it's tested. Turn up early and they'll test it straight away if it's not too busy, that again will help with it passing.

Depending on where the oil leaks are, it may not be expensive at all to fix (for example, a rocker cover gasket wouldn't cost much more than €100 to fix - certainly no more than €150 anyway - and that would cause oil to leak onto the catalytic converter depending on the engine) - and certainly not grounds to scrap a car that is otherwise running fine. You will probably get some sort of advisory or note on the NCT report telling you where the leaks are anyway if there really are oil leaks.

No, Diptane won't make any difference (except for lightening your wallet).

Nct failure on high emissions

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