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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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Comments

  • #4142
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    doomshine wrote: »
    Aww, how nice of them. How considerate, how humane to cling to this kind of silly bollocks well into the 21st century.

    Imagine the queues at the heaven check in desk and the confusion due to all the baggage.


  • #4143
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    wexie wrote: »
    hmmmyeah....but a jewish zombie fairytale written by primitive savages and believed by hundreds of millions of people worldwide.

    So dismissing it as a jewish zombie fairytale written by primitive savages is highly disrespectful, incredibly narrowminded and dangerously simplistic


    If I'm wrong, may their god strike everyone else who has posted in this thread dead.


  • #4144
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,057 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    Nettle Soup wrote: »
    Some great posts Spookwoman! :)

    Thanks. I see none of them have come on to argue the points. Can't say I'm lying cause it is a direct quote from the bible and the popes etc for and against that's written into history..


  • #4145
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »
    Edgy.


    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/edgy


  • #4146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I’m sick to my back teeth of seeing people dismiss the 8th having a hand in Savita’s death.
    It’s infuriating, and the height of disrespect to the woman’s memory.

    Despite the disquiet the Miss P case caused, Savita's case and the public reaction to it was a catalyst for actually getting the referendum.
    The no side of course aren't to happy that we got the referendum and that it didn't go their way, so of course their going to be still be saying the 8th had nothing to do with her death.

    Their use of her image as part of their campaign backfired and pissed a lot of people off and just help sink them even more, so unfortunately your going to hear it said a lot.


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  • #4147
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »
    Edgy.


    Be careful not to cut yourself with that edge.


  • #4148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    But she was told “this was a Catholic country” etc.

    And whether you believed the 8th played a part, or the laws, or the medical code of ethics, or the hospital policies, it’s indisputable that had she been granted an abortion she would have lived. Voting for the repeal means that less constricting laws can be had which prevent ambiguous situations where the doctors are left citing Catholicism to deny a termination.

    There’s also the people who were on those investigations who have come out and said the 8th played a role in her death. I can only assume that the reason this wasn’t in their report if because it was out of their scope to say so at the time.

    Alright I must have read some lies


  • #4149
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Alright I must have read some lies

    well there have been plenty of em around. You'll hardly have been the only one.


  • #4150
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    It's easier for some people to dismiss the truth when it conflicts with the .. picture they have painted in their heads.

    Indeed


  • #4151
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I’m sick to my back teeth of seeing people dismiss the 8th having a hand in Savita’s death.
    It’s infuriating, and the height of disrespect to the woman’s memory.

    Not sure I want to get into this.... I find it disrespectful that her death is used as a political tool. I was glad to see most of the Yes campaign avoided using her in their posters.


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  • #4152
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Indeed

    No need to edit my post. I specified 'pretty picture' deliberately because the status quo seemed perfect to the No side. I think the subtleness was wasted on you.


  • #4153
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not sure I want to get into this.... I find it disrespectful that her death is used as a political tool. I was glad to see most of the Yes campaign avoided using her in their posters.

    Yet using the idea that billions of babies were dying wasn't distasteful?


  • #4154
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Yet using the idea that billions of babies were dying wasn't distasteful?
    Well, it is true...

    What was that about pretty pictures?


  • #4155
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Well, it is true...

    What was that about pretty pictures?

    Not billions but certainly thousands or tens of thousands and buried in unmarked graves or dumped in septic tanks. However, the no side didn’t care about babies because babies were born.


  • #4156
    Aidric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    At the risk of repeating myself the Irish electorate have proved themselves to be informed, considerate and above all compassionate. They don't want to be preached at, rather they want the arguments to be presented to them in a balanced and honest way.

    The no side seemed to think that they could ride on the coattails of the Trump and Brexit result by fudging and obfuscating as much as they could. At its heart was dishonesty. Fortunately the Irish electorate are capable of cutting through the nonsense. The headbangers leading the no campaign didn't have the self awareness to realise this.

    That said, the absolute brass neck of some members of the catholic church coming out with the 'sinner' statements today. They were quiet during the lead up to the vote for good reason and they have no moral authority to chip in post debate with their pontificating.


  • #4157
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Well, it is true...

    No it's not. Not even when you distort the definition of a baby to include the fetus. Hell, since Roe vs. Wade the United States has only been able to "chop up" not even a mere 50 million "babies" - billions is a baseless lie. Stop hitting yourself.


  • #4158
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Ok, I haven't seen these 'billions' mentioned before, but millions is true


  • #4159
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Ok, I haven't seen these 'billions' mentioned before, but millions is true

    Only when you pretend a fetus is the same thing as a baby - kind of like how the 8th pretended a zygote was the same thing as an adult woman.


  • #4160
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Well, it's more true than denying the fetus is alive, or is human...


  • #4161
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Well, it's more true than denying the fetus is alive, or is human...

    Now you're confusing gestation with living.


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  • #4162
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Aidric wrote: »
    That said, the absolute brass neck of some members of the catholic church coming out with the 'sinner' statements today. They were quiet during the lead up to the vote for good reason and they have no moral authority to chip in post debate with their pontificating.

    If you belong to a church that not 40 years ago advocated what was essentially slavery and tossing babies into septic tanks, then no, they have absolutely no right to try assume th moral high horse.

    Some opinions can be quite rightly ridiculed.


  • #4163
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Not sure I want to get into this.... I find it disrespectful that her death is used as a political tool. I was glad to see most of the Yes campaign avoided using her in their posters.



    Her father said/asked it her image to be used by thr Yes side :

    In April Mr Yalagi said he wanted Savita’s image used by those campaigning for a Yes vote.

    “Of course. It should be shown. The rules in Ireland about abortion should change” he said.


  • #4164
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    From what I've read, the doctors failed to realise that she was in danger of dying from sepsis. Once they realised this, they performed an abortion but it was too little too late. The symptoms of sepsis are identical to that of pregnancy so its difficult to diagnose. It cannot be said with certainty that an earlier abortion would have saved her life. Women who have abortions die from it, women who give birth die from it, anyone who undergoes surgery can die from it. Sepsis is a common enough killer. I'm 100% pro repeal and pro choice but I do think her death has been used as a political tool.

    This is the conclusion I came to not too long ago when I did a bit of research. If I have this wrong, I'll gladly change my position.


  • #4165
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    From what I've read, the doctors failed to realise that she was in danger of dying from sepsis. Once they realised this, they performed an abortion but it was too little too late. The symptoms of sepsis are identical to that of pregnancy so its difficult to diagnose. It cannot be said with certainty that an earlier abortion would have saved her life. Women who have abortions die from it, women who give birth die from it, anyone who undergoes surgery can die from it. Sepsis is a common enough killer. I'm 100% pro repeal and pro choice but I do think her death has been used as a political tool.

    This is the conclusion I came to not too long ago when I did a bit of research. If I have this wrong, I'll gladly change my position.

    The symptoms of pregnancy are in no way similar to sepsis. I stopped reading at that point.


  • #4166
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The symptoms of pregnancy are in no way similar to sepsis. I stopped reading at that point.

    Read the last paragraph in this: https://www.sepsis.org/sepsis-and/pregnancy-and-childbirth/


  • #4167
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #4168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Fair enough. I'll look into it


  • #4169
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She was having a miscarriage. There was no hope for the baby.
    She was left in hospital for a week, at the start of which she requested an abortion to speed up the inevitable.
    She was refused and made sit there waiting for her baby to die, a few extra requests for an abortion were also denied.
    She was left to suffer, developed sepsis, and died.

    If she had been granted an abortion when she first requested one she wouldn’t have developed sepsis and woulda have died.
    It’s that simple.


  • #4170
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    From what I've read, the doctors failed to realise that she was in danger of dying from sepsis. Once they realised this, they performed an abortion but it was too little too late. The symptoms of sepsis are identical to that of pregnancy so its difficult to diagnose. It cannot be said with certainty that an earlier abortion would have saved her life. Women who have abortions die from it, women who give birth die from it, anyone who undergoes surgery can die from it. Sepsis is a common enough killer. I'm 100% pro repeal and pro choice but I do think her death has been used as a political tool.

    This is the conclusion I came to not too long ago when I did a bit of research. If I have this wrong, I'll gladly change my position.

    They knew she was at risk for sepsis, she was on antibiotics. "Inevitable Miscarriage" was recorded on her records. The next day,

    "Aware that her baby will not survive, Mrs Halappanavar asks her consultant Dr Astbury for a termination.

    The consultant tells her that "in this country it is not legal to terminate a pregnancy on the grounds of poor prognosis for a foetus". A foetal heartbeat is present and her life is not at risk so it is not legally possible to carry out the termination.

    Midwife manager Ann Maria Burke tries to calm an upset Savita and explains that the termination cannot be carried out because Ireland is "a Catholic country"."

    The next morning,

    "Dr Uzockwu notes a foul-smelling discharge and diagnoses an infection of the foetal membranes. He puts Savita on stronger antibiotics and orders tests."

    Same day, the Attending Consultant who told her this was a Catholic country,

    "8.25am Another two hours pass and consultant Dr Astbury visits Savita.

    She does not read the notes herself and is not told about the discharge by the register looking after Savita, Dr Anne Helps.

    She is told about the infection diagnosis and expresses concern.

    She says she may have to carry out a termination despite the heartbeat. More tests are ordered and more antibiotics prescribed. Sepsis is diagnosed, rather than severe sepsis, because her blood pressure is not low.

    She told the inquest she would have carried out a termination sooner had she been told about the discharge."

    By Astburys own admissions she would've terminated sooner if she felt it was *severe* sepsis, not just plain old sepsis(?!?) having previously denied the ability to perform a termination because "this is a catholic country," believing " "in this country it is not legal to terminate a pregnancy on the grounds of poor prognosis for a foetus." That poor prognosis being an "inevitable miscarriage."

    The 8th amendment quite demonstrably played a heavy influence on the poor judgement of the attending consultant, which resulted in Savita's death. I fail to see how anything less is in dispute.


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  • #4171
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    From what I've read, the doctors failed to realise that she was in danger of dying from sepsis. Once they realised this, they performed an abortion but it was too little too late. The symptoms of sepsis are identical to that of pregnancy so its difficult to diagnose. It cannot be said with certainty that an earlier abortion would have saved her life. Women who have abortions die from it, women who give birth die from it, anyone who undergoes surgery can die from it. Sepsis is a common enough killer. I'm 100% pro repeal and pro choice but I do think her death has been used as a political tool.

    This is the conclusion I came to not too long ago when I did a bit of research. If I have this wrong, I'll gladly change my position.

    Septic miscarriage that the doctors allowed to continue because her life was not in danger, or so they thought. By the time they did think her life was in danger, things had progressed too far.
    That's the 8th in action right there, and directly contributed to her death.


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