The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Bunny Colvin · 24-05-2018 04:05PM

There won't be any celebrations when the yes vote is official but at the same time, it'll be nice to know that Stein, Mullens Waters, The Iona Institute, LoveBoth and all of the other backwards thinking folk in Ireland took a good beating.

gmisk · 24-05-2018 04:06PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

there's going to be a significant minority that will feel totally alienated in the country they live in.

Just a quick question do you think the people that voted no in SSM referendum felt totally alienated when the yes side won?
I understand this would be a much more divisive issue for man but just curious to see what you think.

....... · 24-05-2018 04:06PM

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Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 04:06PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Whatever way the vote goes (and barring a major upset, it will be yes) there's going to be a significant minority that will feel totally alienated in the country they live in.

Whatever way it goes, I would like to see graciousness and humility from the winning side, and a willingness to unite. I doubt we will see that though unfortunately.

I envision a lot of tears tbh. Be they tears of relief and happiness or despair.

Bunny Colvin · 24-05-2018 04:07PM

....... wrote: »

I think there will be.

I will certainly be celebrating the end of 35 years of oppression.

I won't begrudge you!

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Mr. CooL ICE · 24-05-2018 04:07PM

Vlad Kelly wrote: »

Nice massive long list you cucky freak

Mod: Aaaand on that note, don't post in this thread again

gmisk · 24-05-2018 04:08PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

There won't be any celebrations when the yes vote is official but at the same time, it'll be nice to know that Stein, Mullens Waters, The Iona Institute, LoveBoth and all of the other backwards thinking folk in Ireland took a good beating.

I would agree with this I think.
I think if yes do win it will almost be relief rather than great joy, it will have been a long hard fight for many.

Trasna1 · 24-05-2018 04:10PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I'm desperate for Yes to win, but there won't be any celebrations. Just relief.
We won't have to fight anymore, and things will finally be as they should always have been.

As pointed out by the poster above, referendums are indeed by their nature, divisive - but this is not the run of the mill constitutional referendum. I don't think anyone would have lost sleep (apart from senators) if the seanad referendum had passed for example but I do think there will be genuine anguish amongst the supporters of the losing side on Saturday.

Hopefully the wounds will heal quickly and a conciliatory approach from the winning side would be welcome.

circadian · 24-05-2018 04:12PM

I'm seeing a lot of
"Save live's vote NO" posters around.

How about saving those apostrophes for where they belong?

1800_Ladladlad · 24-05-2018 04:12PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Whatever way the vote goes (and barring a major upset, it will be yes) there's going to be a significant minority that will feel totally alienated in the country they live in.

Whatever way it goes, I would like to see graciousness and humility from the winning side, and a willingness to unite. I doubt we will see that though unfortunately.

All I ask and wish for is for people to respect one anothers opinion and act their ages ......... and part of me doubt that it wont happen.

FrancieBrady · 24-05-2018 04:12PM

I plan to celebrate if the referendum is won by Yes.
Not the result but the end and obliteration of Iona and all the others who put religious and personal moral beliefs on others.
It will be a great day for Ireland.
Iona will be finally irrelevant.
May be a BBQ!

BarryD2 · 24-05-2018 04:12PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The No side like the Yes side is not a homogenous group..... The middle ground largely advocates a different referendum which deals with the hard and extreme cases such as rape, incest, FFA, risk to mothers life and severe mental anguish.

Maybe, but it's quite clear that any 'middle ground' on the No side have no influence. The leadership of the No side is characterised by fanaticism.

There will be no rethink by the that No leadership if this ref is rejected. They will have achieved their one sole objective - that is to retain the 8th.

You need to realise that the only way forward is choice. Let those who are implacably opposed to abortion carry on as before. And let those who choose otherwise take their path. What's not to like. It's very simple, vote Yes.

Penn · 24-05-2018 04:13PM

gmisk wrote: »

I would agree with this I think.
I think if yes do win it will almost be relief rather than great joy, it will have been a long hard fight for many.

Yeah with the SSM result, it was a celebration because it allowed people to do something they badly wanted to do.

With this, it's allowing people to do something they one day may need to do, but hope they never have to.

That said, there'll certainly be some celebrations simply for the hard work and long fight that many of the campaigners have done, and the relief of knowing that it will no longer be able to impact women's healthcare in this country as it has been doing.

retro:electro · 24-05-2018 04:13PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Whatever way the vote goes (and barring a major upset, it will be yes) there's going to be a significant minority that will feel totally alienated in the country they live in.

Whatever way it goes, I would like to see graciousness and humility from the winning side, and a willingness to unite. I doubt we will see that though unfortunately.

I won’t be celebrating. For the SSM result I celebrated as it was a joyous occasion. There was bunting and banners and prosecoo popping. But what do we toast to this time? The grim reality that women will have to make the most difficult of personal decisions? I see no joy in that. I’ll feel relief though. Huge huge relief, and comfort that those decisions will be made here with their families and doctors. Might have a sneaky glass of wine though, for me nerves.
I’ll be absolutely devastated should Yes lose though.

hometruths · 24-05-2018 04:13PM

Just popping in to add my 2cents worth for whatever its worth. Male, early 40s, married, 2 daughters.

After thinking about it long and hard, reading and listening to arguments on both sides, I have decided to vote NO tomorrow.

When it was first clear we would have a referendum on the 8th I didn't give it a lot of though beyond assuming I would support it on the grounds that I strongly believe the law as it stands needs reform and I am a believer in individual choice and free will.

When I saw the wording of the proposed amendment, it gave me pause for thought, as I thought it was pretty broad, a blank cheque to use the phrase bandied about.

What really made me question my vote was the Governments proposed legislation which clearly and unequivocally provides for totally unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks. I am absolutely fine with the rest of legislation, it is just Head 4 I have the problem with.

No matter how much I think we need to be able to deal with the hard cases, I am not prepared to support a proposal that essentially allows greater access to abortion than some forms of contraception.

I think the government have made a balls of this and a referendum that ought to have carried fairly comfortably will turn out to be a nail biter.

circadian · 24-05-2018 04:14PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I plan to celebrate if the referendum is won by Yes.
Not the result but the end and obliteration of Iona and all the others who put religious and personal moral beliefs on others.
It will be a great day for Ireland.
Iona will be finally irrelevant.
May be a BBQ!

It'll be raining on Sunday, here's hoping that count comes in nice and quick!

gmisk · 24-05-2018 04:14PM

....... wrote: »

Same as SSM this wont affect anyone but the poor women who seek abortions annually and their partners.

So same as SSM, no one who votes No will be affected.

You might get the odd nut going on about "missing citizens" but Id say thatll die off pretty quickly.

I have honestly never seen a more celebratory atmosphere then when SSM was a yes, the crowds of people all ages and sexuality, couples who finally felt equal in their own country I will be honest I burst into tears.

....... · 24-05-2018 04:14PM

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Shurimgreat · 24-05-2018 04:15PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

There won't be any celebrations when the yes vote is official but at the same time, it'll be nice to know that Stein, Mullens Waters, The Iona Institute, LoveBoth and all of the other backwards thinking folk in Ireland took a good beating.

97% of abortions in the UK are on healthy unborn babies.
If you think a similar regime occurring here is something to celebrate I actually feel sorry for you.
Again like all the Yes side at this stage you fail to understand that the vast majority of No voters (A) have nothing to do with the Iona Institute and anyone who says otherwise is a liar and (B) want to legislate for the small number of cases such as FFA, rape, incest, etc but are not comfortable with abortion on demand to everyone up to 12 weeks including babies with no abnormalities or were not the result of rape or incest.

As for the figure of 2 women a week going to the UK for abortion for FFA reasons, this contrasts with something like 60 other women who travel a week. So less than 2% of cases are for FFA.

So in summary the vast majority of abortions in the UK have nothing whatsoever to do with FFA, rape, incest, etc. And yet this is what the Yes side seize on as justification.

Stop exploiting a small number of unfortunate cases to justify abortion on demand for everyone. And stop telling blatant lies that everyone on the No side is against abortion for women in certain circumstances.

....... · 24-05-2018 04:16PM

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SusieBlue · 24-05-2018 04:16PM

schmittel wrote: »

Just popping in to add my 2cents worth for whatever its worth. Male, early 40s, married, 2 daughters.

After thinking about it long and hard, reading and listening to arguments on both sides, I have decided to vote NO tomorrow.

When it was first clear we would have a referendum on the 8th I didn't give it a lot of though beyond assuming I would support it on the grounds that I strongly believe the law as it stands needs reform and I am a believer in individual choice and free will.

When I saw the wording of the proposed amendment, it gave me pause for thought, as I thought it was pretty broad, a blank cheque to use the phrase bandied about.

What really made me question my vote was the Governments proposed legislation which clearly and unequivocally provides for totally unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks. I am absolutely fine with the rest of legislation, it is just Head 4 I have the problem with.

No matter how much I think we need to be able to deal with the hard cases, I am not prepared to support a proposal that essentially allows greater access to abortion than some forms of contraception.

I think the government have made a balls of this and a referendum that ought to have carried fairly comfortably will turn out to be a nail biter.

Are you implying that abortion will be easier to access and more freely available to everyone, than a condom is? WHAT?

gmisk · 24-05-2018 04:16PM

retro:electro wrote: »

I won’t be celebrating. For the SSM result I celebrated as it was a joyous occasion. There was bunting and banners and prosecoo popping. But what do we toast to this time? The grim reality that women will have to make the most difficult of personal decisions? I see no joy in that. I’ll feel relief though. Huge huge relief, and comfort that those decisions will be made here with their families and doctors. Might have a sneaky glass of wine though, for me nerves.
I’ll be absolutely devastated should Yes lose though.

Well said.
Defo deserve a glass of vino

I will be in Belfast at biggest weekend throwing some shapes, when results are known, but getting a later train tomorrow to allow me to vote

gmisk · 24-05-2018 04:18PM

circadian wrote: »

It'll be raining on Sunday, here's hoping that count comes in nice and quick!

Oh question when are we likely to know who has won?

I know late late will have an exit poll, but an actual result.

SusieBlue · 24-05-2018 04:18PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

97% of abortions in the UK are on healthy unborn babies.
If you think a similar regime occurring here is something to celebrate I actually feel sorry for you.
Again like all the Yes side at this stage you fail to understand that the vast majority of No voters (A) have nothing to do with the Iona Institute and anyone who says otherwise is a liar and (B) want to legislate for the small number of cases such as FFA, rape, incest, etc but are not comfortable with abortion on demand to everyone up to 12 weeks including babies with no abnormalities or were not the result of rape or incest.

As for the figure of 2 women a week going to the UK for abortion for FFA reasons, this contrasts with something like 60 other women who travel a week. So less than 2% of cases are for FFA.

So in summary the vast majority of abortions in the UK have nothing whatsoever to do with FFA, rape, incest, etc. And yet this is what the Yes side seize on as justification.

Stop exploiting a small number of unfortunate cases to justify abortion on demand for everyone. And stop telling blatant lies that everyone on the No side is against abortion for women in certain circumstances.

So you are happily handing up these desperate families in tragic circumstances as collateral damage, their suffering and anguish is worth it, if it keep the "bad" abortions out.

Two families a week have to travel to the UK for necessary healthcare, and have to have their children's remains shipped home via courier or hidden in the boot of the car on the ferry, and what of it, says you? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Frank Bullitt · 24-05-2018 04:19PM

So is there an area around the polling station that you aren't allowed to have posters? Because they are right outside the 2 near me.

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ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 04:19PM

Gintonious wrote: »

So is there an area around the polling station that you aren't allowed to have posters? Because they are right outside the 2 near me.

that only applies from tomorrow. or maybe later tonight.

Penn · 24-05-2018 04:19PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

As for the figure of 2 women a week going to the UK for abortion for FFA reasons, this contrasts with something like 60 other women who travel a week. So less than 2% of cases are for FFA.

What's your opinion on those who go to the UK for an abortion? Why is it okay for them to do that with all the potential risks to their health due to lack of proper aftercare, but to not have the same here?

You've said yourself, women travel to the UK each week for abortions. Clearly, abortions will not stop happening whether the 8th is repealed or retained. So what is it you think voting No will actually stop, other than proper medically-supervised medical aftercare and support in this country in our own hospitals by the women's own doctors?

Shurimgreat · 24-05-2018 04:20PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well for once give us facts and stats. How many aborted are healthy? How many are the result of rape? Or FFA?

Stats would help.

Removing the 8th will make abortion on demand here. It will make it as relatively easy as going to your GP.

Once that happens, where does it stop?

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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