The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2018 12:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll be voting yes (not my place to make other people's decisions for them), but i have noticed a bit of a swing towards No lately. getting more airtime it seems.

Yeah, EWTN does that.

TallyRand · 24-05-2018 12:11AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your post got the response it deserved, try asking something that you can back up with facts. Research shows having an abortion is not linked to developing depression or mental health issues

So you can’t answer the question head on? Trying to appear dismissive of my point to evade

Oh and can you back up your claim with facts?

iguana · 24-05-2018 12:11AM

So instead of watching the debate tonight, I had a sneaky watch of tomorrow night's episode of The Handmaid's Tale. No spoilers but I'm just so happy it's going to be aired right ahead of the vote.

TallyRand · 24-05-2018 12:12AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Welcome back by the way

Yeah thanks for the welcome, but eh can we stick to the argument at hand?

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2018 12:12AM

brooke 2 wrote: »

She has proven herself to be a hypocrite tonight by trivialising mental health. :mad:

She has shown herself to be incompetent at her (supposed) profession - she is not a practising barrister - by making errors in law even a lay person can point and laugh at.

gctest50 · 24-05-2018 12:13AM

TallyRand wrote: »

Oh and can you back up your claim with facts?

This longitudinal cohort study observed 956 women semiannually for 5 years. Eight days after seeking an abortion, women who were denied an abortion reported significantly more anxiety symptoms and lower self-esteem and life satisfaction, but similar levels of depression, as women receiving abortions; outcomes improved or remained steady over time.

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 12:14AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

How do you know he doesnt?.

If you know society is going down the tubes it gives you freedom to truly enjoy things knowing its all going tits up.

Has helped me.

Maybe stop assuming hes downbeat or depressed as he doesnt agree with you?.

And even if he was why take the piss out of him for it?.
.So much for mental health awareness, darkness into Light etc eh?!.

You have to be depressed to pet dogs and eat ice cream now?!

omerin · 24-05-2018 12:14AM

I think we're going around in circles here.
Could I be allowed fast forward to Saturday where we will presume a yes victory, looking at the possible outcomes -
What timelines are we talking about to carry out the procedure here
Will our public order laws need to be updated - I can see a lot of disturbances outside clinics
Maybe a very narrow victory may result in a revised version of the current draft proposal- a soft brexit version
Will proper support structures be put in place to support women who decide to abort, getting the politicians to put their money where their mouth is
Will we see members of the medical profession resign
Will abortions be provided free to medical card holders/will they be included in medical insurance policies/ tax relief
In the event something goes wrong and they need to be admitted to hospital, what ward should they stay in

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 12:15AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your post got the response it deserved, try asking something that you can back up with facts. Research shows having an abortion is not linked to developing depression or mental health issues for most women

look up womenhurt.ie

Someone whos a counsellor told me

Many many women need counselling after an abortion indeed she sees women very regularly who just had an abortion.

manual_man · 24-05-2018 12:16AM

buckwheat wrote: »

It's like a ****ing mental illness:D:D

As someone who has endured mental illness i'm wholly reluctant to degenerate this term. There are masses of individuals suffering today, suffering in this very moment and in a tragic way it is the ultimate tragedy of our times, the ultimate indictment in relation to loved ones of all of us who are suffering and in so many cases are being neglected by the people closest to them. It is by no means something easy to solve, but please, please please please let us not denegrate that term and denegrate the very humanity of those people that need our help the most.

24-05-2018 12:17AM

TallyRand wrote: »

So you can’t answer the question head on? Trying to appear dismissive of my point to evade

Oh and can you back up your claim with facts?

Plenty of links available, is your internet broken,?

Here's just one article with a link to it

https://www.forbes.com/consent/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2016/12/16/getting-an-abortion-doesnt-harm-mental-health-but-being-denied-one-does/amp/

Off to bed got work at 5, will see your reply in the morning.

joe40 · 24-05-2018 12:17AM

TallyRand wrote: »

joe40 wrote: »

I would vote to allow the victim to have control over her body. You would condemn her to go through with an unwanted pregnancy and all the emotional and physical scars that would involve.
Wanted pregnancies can be extremely tough what you propose is barbaric in the extreme.
If it was someone in your family, your daughter, would you turn your back on her if she needed your help to access an abortion in that circumstance.
Would you shun her if she got an abortion in that circumstance. Honest answer please.

Where did I say I would condemn her to with an unwanted pregnancy? I think it’s your internet that’s broken??

I would hand in heart not shun a girl who has an abortion is this instance.

On the other side of the scale, what would be your honest opinion to a woman who had not one or two abortions but three due to a reckless attitude. Please honest answer as I have given to you.

It would still be her choice. I believe the vast majority of women do not take the decision to have an abortion lightly. Many do suffer regret later but it is still their choice.

TallyRand · 24-05-2018 12:18AM

gctest50 wrote: »

This longitudinal cohort study observed 956 women semiannually for 5 years. Eight days after seeking an abortion, women who were denied an abortion reported significantly more anxiety symptoms and lower self-esteem and life satisfaction, but similar levels of depression, as women receiving abortions; outcomes improved or remained steady over time.

Hmmmm, the longitudinal study referenced in this paper http://200.16.86.38/uca/common/grupo54/files/new_zealand_abortion_study.pdf contradicts your post

Overheal · 24-05-2018 12:18AM

TallyRand wrote: »

Hard cases seem to get most of the air time and it got me to thinking, if a woman became pregnant by rape (horrible thing to happen) then I’d personally think that if that disgusting evil rapist was caught and convicted then they should be executed. Now there is a life worth ending!

Funny how yes voters will no doubt turn the other way in a heartbeat, amazing how populism sweeps people on a wave. So good people of boards would you agree with me that the rapist in this instance should be executed? (And yes I know it’s hypothetical but both sides are using these examples)

Most threads about rapists quickly include early replies about how the rapist should be hung and/or have their balls chopped off so you may be playing to the wrong crowd

_Dara_ · 24-05-2018 12:19AM

Trasna1 wrote: »

See that's not exactly true. The nature of Irish governments these days are coalitions. It is often the minority party social policy that gets implemented in the programme for government generally because it's cheap, requiring a simple law change and no funding. Sometimes such minority party policies have little or no support among the general public - I'm thinking about the Greens carbon taxes, but are still implemented.

That said I can't recall any Irish government collapsing over a social policy. Governments fall due to scandals and economic problems.

I didn’t mean government collapse. I meant at the next general election. And I’m pretty sure that’s what she meant too.

Losty Dublin · 24-05-2018 12:19AM

Trasna1 wrote: »

While that remark won't have helped, at this stage most minds are made up and the pool of voting undecided is genuinely very small. As I said No needed to blow yes out of the water in the last few days and hope for the best (a stormy wet day to keep voters away) to be even in with a realistic chance. That hasn't happened.

The damage done by Mullens remark is also limited by the media blackout, it won't be in the papers tomorrow.

The media moratorium doesn't apply to the morning papers as it kicks in at 2PM. There's a good chance that one or other of the papers will report on his remarks.

iguana · 24-05-2018 12:20AM

omerin wrote: »

What timelines are we talking about to carry out the procedure here

At the earliest, toward the end of the year but there is no guarantee it will happen at all.

omerin wrote: »

Will our public order laws need to be updated - I can see a lot of disturbances outside clinics

There won't be clinics. The proposal is for a GP service for the first 12 weeks and any necessary abortions after that point will be done in a maternity hospital.

As for cost, later term abortions would fall under maternity care which is currently free. Who will bear the cost of medical abortions is unknown, I imagine it will be covered by medical card where applicable but that's just a guess.

24-05-2018 12:20AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yeah, EWTN does that.

What's EWTN?

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 12:24AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your forgetting that a lot of the no side say mental health doesn't exist.

Nonsense pure crap.

ONE just ONE lad said something along those lines.

Talk about tarring them all with one brush!.

spookwoman · 24-05-2018 12:25AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What's EWTN?

Eternal Word Television Network?

Overheal · 24-05-2018 12:25AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's EWTN?

Early warning tidal network?

Could also mean a Catholic international tv network ?

Trasna1 · 24-05-2018 12:26AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The media moratorium doesn't apply to the morning papers as it kicks in at 2PM. There's a good chance that one or other of the papers will report on his remarks.

It didn't make the front pages as they had gone to print. It might get some coverage on the late editions but I doubt it will be significant.

DOS · 24-05-2018 12:28AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are on the losing side of history. I get to keep talking while you guys will fade into obscurity.

Ha ha ha!

It wasnt me123 · 24-05-2018 12:29AM

Trasna1 wrote: »

......

The damage done by Mullens remark is also limited by the media blackout, it won't be in the papers tomorrow.

It will, blackout doesn't start until 2pm tomorrow afternoon.

It will be in all the papers and on radio until then.

Mullens is an idiot

P_1 · 24-05-2018 12:30AM

Trasna1 wrote: »

While that remark won't have helped, at this stage most minds are made up and the pool of voting undecided is genuinely very small. As I said No needed to blow yes out of the water in the last few days and hope for the best (a stormy wet day to keep voters away) to be even in with a realistic chance. That hasn't happened.

The damage done by Mullens remark is also limited by the media blackout, it won't be in the papers tomorrow.

But you bet your backside it will be plastered all over social media.

DOS · 24-05-2018 12:34AM

BarleySweets wrote: »

You genocide preaching ****wit. Piss off with your fear of asterisked words; just yesterday you were preaching fire and brimstone unless we all repent and submit to your modern-day, bastardized version of a religion that was invented 2,000 years ago to control a group of rowdy desert-dwelling clans. Who the **** do you think you are to try to call me out like that?

You know what your problem is? You’re while ideology is based on fear. You are a man afraid of life. Every one of your posts and proclamations drips with your fear and it’s frankly pathetic to read such bull**** in 2018.

Things you are afraid of in 2018:
- church attendance declines
- societal downfall due to the above
- feminists
- white genocide due to abortions
- foreigners
- the fact that you’re a walking contradiction “I firmly believe you all need to worship my religion piously and I expect you to all take my word that my religion is best and will save our society and prevent a genocide on our lovely whites; oh but nevermind the fact that none of the leadership of my religion echo my concerns and consider me and my ilk to be fundamentalist nutjobs. I’m right and you’re wrong. QED.”

Oh and it’s BarleySweets you nazi ****.

Right Pearl Barely... take a deep breath and count to 10

I never said anything about genocide?

Your post.. i think you need some counseling
to help your ass from bouncing off the walls when you get down some

24-05-2018 12:38AM

P_1 wrote: »

But you bet your backside it will be plastered all over social media.

Not on Twitter etc but a quick search got this

https://www.buzz.ie/amp/entertainment/tweets-pat-kenny-show-viewers-react-tonights-referendum-debate-286190

DOS · 24-05-2018 12:38AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Well said

Another one

Anyone who'd say 'well said' to that post...

Trasna1 · 24-05-2018 12:40AM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I didn’t mean government collapse. I meant at the next general election. And I’m pretty sure that’s what she meant too.

Candidates are generally elected on a broad manifesto covering many areas of Irish life economy and taxation, education health and social policy. Unless you are a candidate yourself you will be hard pushed to find one that completely matches your values, so voting in an election is a compromise - and social policy is usually well down the list of priorities when choosing where to place your no.1.

Even if you are happy with your chosen candidates social policy it is likely that they will have to form a coalition to create a government. The minority party generally gets a significant goal of their social policy into the programme for government as it is a cheap win for the minority partner and costs nothing fiscally to the majority partner.

So we can see how a small number of voters can drive social (or indeed any) policy over the majority as long as the majority party considers it a worthy trade for their support. Due to this you can have Governments enacting policy that has very limited public support.

spookwoman · 24-05-2018 12:40AM

BarleySweets don't rise to Dos he's not worth it and just trying to goad you into getting banned

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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