Glass bottle floor insulation

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 06:43AM #1

Wondering if anyone has tried this?
http://www.sparklingadventures.com/index.php?id=1585
Supposed to be better than kingspan floor insulation and there’s no shortage of bottles in this country.But didn’t find any posts about it

sydthebeat · 23-05-2018 07:01AM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Wondering if anyone has tried this?
http://www.sparklingadventures.com/index.php?id=1585
Supposed to be better than kingspan floor insulation and there’s no shortage of bottles in this country.But didn’t find any posts about it

Hippy BS

That's ONE air layer to act as an insulator compared to tens of thousands in Kingspan foam. They are not even close in compatibility.

BryanF · 23-05-2018 07:41AM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Supposed to be better than kingspan floor insulation and there’s no shortage of bottles in this country.But didn’t find any posts about it

Please provide pier reviewed study confirming the above.

_Brian · 23-05-2018 07:48AM

Yes there is some trapped air.
However there is substantial coldbridging across the glass between the top and lower surface and glass conducts heat very well.

I expect it provides “some” insulation but nothing close to products like kingspan.

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 07:58AM

The guy restoring my house suggested it with limecrete and mentioned that that the u values are better than kingspan but has yet to send me that info, thought I would check for myself and see if anyone had actually used it.At 1st I thought he meant glasscrete, but no, he meant going to the bottle bank and gathering

selfbuild17 · 23-05-2018 08:09AM

Sounds like absolute rubbish. Doesn’t glass have one of the highest thermal conductivities of all building materials. Everywhere there is glass-on-glass, there is a big thermal bridge. It’s like saying that steel wool is a good thermal insulator because there’s air trapped between the steel threads.

There’s a lot of rubbish spoken on sites, be careful who you take advice from

Tom Mann Centuria · 23-05-2018 08:13AM

The Victorians used to use Glass bottles under concrete. Not saying it's any good, but it's an historical practice, not a new idea.

_Brian · 23-05-2018 08:23AM

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

The Victorians used to use Glass bottles under concrete. Not saying it's any good, but it's an historical practice, not a new idea.

Yes but I bet if they had a better product they would have used it.

B-D-P-- · 23-05-2018 08:35AM

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

The Victorians used to use Glass bottles under concrete. Not saying it's any good, but it's an historical practice, not a new idea.

Maybe true,

But if this link is anything to go by, They didnt always have it right.

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 08:40AM

Could you suggest anything else to go along with 100mm of limecrete for 40m2 stone house? 200mm perhaps? Also considering getting under floor heating screed laid for future since I’m at it

B-D-P-- · 23-05-2018 08:42AM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Could you suggest anything else to go along with 100mm of limecrete for 40m2 stone house? 200mm perhaps? Also considering getting under floor heating screed laid for future since I’m at it

What is your engineer suggesting?

sydthebeat · 23-05-2018 08:42AM

Why are you putting lime create in the floor?

Tom Mann Centuria · 23-05-2018 08:55AM

_Brian wrote: »

Yes but I bet if they had a better product they would have used it.

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Maybe true,

But if this link is anything to go by, They didnt always have it right.

In sure you're correct. I was merely saying it was an old idea, not a new one.

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 09:10AM

Using limecrete for its breath ability ,insulating qualities and compatibility with UFH. He also suggested Leca, which seems to be the way to go but wanted to find out about glass bottles 1st. What he if the glass bottles turns out to be as brilliant as crothless knickers tho

sydthebeat · 23-05-2018 09:12AM

Are you installing a DPM or radon membrane?

TheBoyConor · 23-05-2018 09:25AM

Op who is giving you all this advice? Do you have a qualified and insured architect or engineer involved here or is it "some guy".
It all sounds highly dubious.

Bear in mind that major refurbishment of a house will require any of the new works to be compliant with building regulations. For starters, glass bottles under your floor hasn't any chance of providing the u-value for floors.

I don't know much about limecrete but 100mm floor slab is not enough in any case.

sbsquarepants · 23-05-2018 09:32AM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Using limecrete for its breath ability ,insulating qualities and compatibility with UFH. He also suggested Leca, which seems to be the way to go but wanted to find out about glass bottles 1st. What he if the glass bottles turns out to be as brilliant as crothless knickers tho

Crotchless knickers are great - just wouldn't fancy insulating my house with them.:D

There's no way this glass bottle floor is anything other than a load of hippy nonsense. I'd be amazed if was even 10% as good an insulator as something like PIR board.

Steer well clear.

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 09:32AM

Yes, some sort of DPM I believe

sydthebeat · 23-05-2018 10:02AM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Yes, some sort of DPM I believe

ok, i dont know whos advising you but theres some failings in the theory here.

First off, breatability in old builds is an important factor to consider when considering upgrading. You can do a search on this forum for my previous posts on it and see that i dont come from any biased viewpoint. Im an architectural technician and I work in, and am interested in, the science of building.

Breathability is required in floors of old buildings as they were generally laid directly on earthwork. This meant that when the rooms were warm, vapour was pushed down into the floors and condensed into moisture and could be sucked to the earthwork by capillary action.. then when that room cooled down, this moisture would travel upwards and vapourise and evapourate when reaching the floor surface. Thats Breathability in a nutshell.

When you introduce a non breathable product such as a DPM or Radon membrane, then the whole circular process stops. Condensate moisture no longer can travel to the earthwork, and moisture cannot travel up from this earthwork. Therefore when using a DPM, its completely pointless using a limecrete breathable floor slab product.

The breathabilitity in the building then needs to be provided by the wall construction, and most importantly by the choice of insulation and vapour control layer.

Also, if you are installing a UFH system then you certainly need a high grade insulation under this screed otherwise (target u value 0.15) your UFH will just end up heating the earth under, which is obviously pointless and a huge waste of money.

my advice, based on the information in this thread to date, is to go contemporary with your floor construction .
then look at proper breathability solutions for your walls, such as lime render finishes, certified VCLs, breathable insulation's such as sheeps wool etc. and a breathable external lime finish.

Dudda · 23-05-2018 11:25AM

Agree with all the comments above. This is all a bit crazy.

However if you do want to go the sustainable route and use recycled glass in a floor you can and with approved materials your engineer or architect will be happy to sign off on. It also has u-values which can be accurately measured unlike the glass bottles idea you found. Be warned this stuff is expensive I believe. I think a large part of the cost could be the transport in getting it to your site. http://www.linham.ie/geocell

Note: not associated with the product and haven't use it. Found it in on the passive house magazine a few months back and though it sounded interesting but was outside my budget.

Calahonda52 · 23-05-2018 01:11PM

As above, also consider Calcitherm.

B-D-P-- · 23-05-2018 01:45PM

Dudda wrote: »

I think a large part of the cost could be the transport in getting it to your site.

That could be the best part, Drinking parties at OP's every night for foreseeable future. we'll rack up the bottles.

*Must bring miller, bud or similiar sizes bottles

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 04:25PM

My bad, no DPM is being used.I just looked through the email again.The advice is coming from a registered builder/restoration specialist that I found on igs.ie

sydthebeat · 23-05-2018 04:37PM

Howzit17 wrote: »

My bad, no DPM is being used.I just looked through the email again.The advice is coming from a registered builder/restoration specialist that I found on igs.ie

wow

dont even think about going near UFH then

listermint · 23-05-2018 04:42PM

Had a look at the link.

Saw the picture of what he called 'concrete pour' closed the link then cleared my browser history.

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 05:31PM

Yeah, I said to him don’t i need a proper airtight house if going with UFH, but he said it’s actualy good for airing out those old stone houses and should be ok with some airtight tape.But I think I’ll sick with going the leca route and forget UFH then?
Thanks all

sydthebeat · 23-05-2018 05:47PM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Yeah, I said to him don’t i need a proper airtight house if going with UFH, but he said it’s actualy good for airing out those old stone houses and should be ok with some airtight tape.But I think I’ll sick with going the leca route and forget UFH then?
Thanks all

You need to get an unbiased professional involved, and have a quantifiable goal

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 06:30PM

Cheers,1st time homeowner here,i’m Probably leaving lots of info out...but i’ll Steer clear of UFH and glass bottles.
He has the house stripped of all concrete and cement now and starting to apply lime after breathable felt and rotted beams replaced on roof.Will keep floor basic and traditional aswell

Howzit17 · 23-05-2018 06:49PM

http://www.irishfarmhouserestoration.org/2018/03/hybrid-limecrete-flooring-pt-3-laying.html?m=1
Perhaps a better source of inspiration for me

BryanF · 23-05-2018 09:32PM

Howzit17 wrote: »

Cheers,1st time homeowner here,i’m Probably leaving lots of info out...but i’ll Steer clear of UFH and glass bottles.
He has the house stripped of all concrete and cement now and starting to apply lime after breathable felt and rotted beams replaced on roof.Will keep floor basic and traditional aswell

how much space have you for the leca? Haven’t looked it up in a while but I think it needs more than a foot - and that still won’t get you to ufh insulation levels.

As regards limecrete - it’s a specialist (just because so few guys know it) install, but better than cement form an embodied energy perspective.
If you go convention route ask for the highest ggbs with a concrete screed If low environmental impact is the game, and if space is tught go with Kingspan or similar PIR
If you really need a breathable floor - maybe look at a raised suspended/subfloor vented/treated timber/ insulated floor

colm_mcm · 23-05-2018 09:34PM

My dad this roughly 50 years ago, supposed to have worked.

Glass bottle floor insulation

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