Smear Test Scandal

Graces7 · 11-05-2018 01:54PM

Kaylee White Cherry wrote: »

I read that post.

That person is beneath contempt, lording it over the thread trying to belittle people. Best ignored.

Just sat here listening to Emma's interview again (after posting the Podcast). I'm not one for showing my emotions or even posting about them here but I can't listen to her, that sadness without tearing up.

I can accept that there's a margin for error in these things, but when there was a cover up to protect a brand and when that cover up kills people (which is what's going to happen to these girls) then no one is being ridiculous leveling blame at Tony OBrien or anyone else involved.

I can't imagine the anger these women and their families are feeling.

Last May I was diagnosed with type II diabetes. During the initial diagnoses I asked how come I had diabetes in May and I was non diabetic on my annual medical in Dec (my job requires an annual medical).

The doctor looked back, asked about what I was told in Dec. I was told I was ok, I ask ever year because my father is diabetic.

The doc then tells me I was type II last December and for two years before that. Another doctor had read all my medicals and never informed me I was diabetic.

Now I won't die as a result, but I'm persuing that doctor for answers (can't get into the specifics here, sry). But had I seen that doctor that day I can't say that I wouldn't have tore lumps off him with the rage I was in.

More heads than O'Brien's must roll for this.

So sorry.

I am in a very tough situation with HSE right now. Finding them heartless and .... Because I am old I do not matter it seems.

Graces7 · 11-05-2018 01:56PM

Amirani wrote: »

The problem with this is it's just factually incorrect. Any cover up didn't impact patient diagnosis and treatment, the audit of previous smears only happened after the cancer diagnosis.

So that makes it OK? NOT and not the point .. red herring?

jmayo · 11-05-2018 01:58PM

Amirani wrote: »

The problem with this is it's just factually incorrect. Any cover up didn't impact patient diagnosis and treatment, the audit of previous smears only happened after the cancer diagnosis.

You really are beginning to grate at this stage.

You have done nothing on this thread, but try and play down what has transpired.

Added to that out of one side of your mouth you will claim you have great sympathy for a victim whilst out of the other side of your mouth has come derision.

I think asked before if you were employed by HSE or linked to government and AFAIK all we got was a comment you have close links to doctors.

You even came on to complain how disillusioning for doctors the media and political coverage of this is.

With that type of fooking disconnected attitude you definitely should be working in the HSE if you are not already.

BTW isn't there one case out there of a woman whose cervical cancer was only diagnosed when doctors performed a hysterectomy and hasn't her husband just recently been made aware that her scans were incorrectly diagnosed ?

She was first misdiagnosed during the screening and further misdiagnosed probably by some of those poor disillusioned doctors who tell us about. :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-05-2018 02:01PM

Graces7 wrote: »

So that makes it OK? NOT and not the point .. red herring?

Despite Vickie and Emma being told that an earlier [correct] diagnoses would have prevented their cancer advancing to a terminal stage, that poster is best ignored.

So sorry

Thank you, but tbh I don't wallow in self pity.

I'm not dealing with the HSE, thankfully.

11-05-2018 02:20PM

Ciara Kelly did a very good piece today on NewsTalk, on the limits of screening well worth checking out a factual non emotive account of what screening can and cant do.

Amirani · 11-05-2018 02:26PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Ciara Kelly did a very good piece today on NewsTalk, on the limits of screening well worth checking out a factual non emotive account of what screening can and cant do.

Yep, was an excellent summation from an informed voice. Had some callers on her show talk through their concerns too and she walked through them very well. Well worth a listen.

Amirani · 11-05-2018 02:33PM

Graces7 wrote: »

So that makes it OK? NOT and not the point .. red herring?

No, it doesn't make it okay but there's a very substantial difference. Withholding audit results is not okay, but it's very different than not informing a patient that they have cancer.

VinLieger · 11-05-2018 03:19PM

I really thought the whole thing about so few people being called back was a bit of a non story. Of course they weren't able to call everyone back they likely have nowhere near the call staff to deal with such incoming volume and it takes a long time to train and prepare staff for that kind of thing, it doesn't happen with the snap of a finger.

The whole thing stinks but that particular story was just stupid and ignorant of the realities of how such systems work.

smurgen · 11-05-2018 06:06PM

Auguste Comte wrote: »

irishproduce wrote: »

Excellent post.

So it seems that the problem here is that the Irish examiners spend more time per test, therefore get through x amount per day.
The American system spends less time time per test and as a result are able to get through y amount per day.
The HSE it can be argued then, outsourced to USA because they were getting more examinations for the same money. But the examinations were not the same. Someone should have known this.
Either that was not made clear to the team who agreed the contract or the team who agreed the contract were aware and did nothing.

On the subject of having more screenings examined here. That obviously isn't possible.
Where will the money come from to train/ employ more examiners at 30-40 tests per day?
Should there be a charge for the screening program?

They were warned by the very people who know about these things.

Doctor 'predicted cervical smear test issues 10 years ago'
Doctor 'raised concerns about outsourcing of Irish smear tests'
Dr Gibbons said he predicted problems would arise 'in 10-12 years time'
Explains how US screening does not suit Irish testing system
Doctor said he resigned from committee after concerns were allegedly dismissed.

The folk that try to rid the HSE of any blame and shout that we don't understand the issue and that this is all blown out of proportion by the media seem to ignore these points.

Graces7 · 11-05-2018 07:23PM

seamus wrote: »

I don't judge her personally, but I do question the wisdom of the media plastering her interview everywhere yesterday, 24 hours after she received the news that her cancer is terminal.
It's understandable that she would want to shout it out loud and call out the error that's left her in this situation. But that doesn't mean the media should run with it.

IMO, it seems very ill-advised and they should have asked her to come back in a week or so, give her some room to gather her thoughts. To me there's some kind of morbid voyeurism in publishing such a raw interview.

I think she has more important things to do with her shockingly limited time than to wait around to suit squeamish audiences? What do you mean by "morbid voyeurism"? ! She gave the interview freely,willingly and cogently. These matters are vital to all women.

iamwhoiam · 11-05-2018 07:37PM

seamus wrote: »

I don't judge her personally, but I do question the wisdom of the media plastering her interview everywhere yesterday, 24 hours after she received the news that her cancer is terminal.
It's understandable that she would want to shout it out loud and call out the error that's left her in this situation. But that doesn't mean the media should run with it.

IMO, it seems very ill-advised and they should have asked her to come back in a week or so, give her some room to gather her thoughts. To me there's some kind of morbid voyeurism in publishing such a raw interview.

Of course I cannot speak for Emma but in my opinion Emma might have actually needed at that moment to scream it from the rooftops and get it out there . Just maybe it was better for Emma to scream it and cry on the radio than the humungous effort of bottling it in in front of her kids . It made the nation cry and it just might have shamed O Brien to step down . We listened to Emma , we gave her a voice and maybe right then and there Emma needed us all to listen . Maybe she needed a voice and a chance to tell us all how damn bloody unfair this is on Emma and Vicky and all the other women let down like this by their so called protectors

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-05-2018 11:50PM

Just watched The Late Late Show and was constantly thinking how someone here in this thread said Emma Mhic Mhathúna was 'being ridiculous'.

Man I'm so angry and saddened tonight.

iamwhoiam · 11-05-2018 11:54PM

Kaylee White Cherry wrote: »

Just watched The Late Late Show and was constantly thinking how someone here in this thread said Emma Mhic Mhathúna was 'being ridiculous'.

Man I'm so angry and saddened tonight.

That said far more about the poster than about Emma .

What a brave , sad , wonderful woman Emma is . So damn unfair and so damn unnecessary

goat2 · 12-05-2018 10:58PM

I hope against hope that she can be cured, that something good will happen, she has a beautiful family to take care of, and hope she will by some chance make it through.

Neyite · 13-05-2018 12:50AM

goat2 wrote: »

I hope against hope that she can be cured, that something good will happen, she has a beautiful family to take care of, and hope she will by some chance make it through.

She was diagnosed as terminal though?

goat2 · 20-05-2018 03:38PM

Neyite wrote: »

She was diagnosed as terminal though?

It is just so sad, and could have been avoided, if only they did the testing here in our country, instead of it being financial

Calhoun · 20-05-2018 04:23PM

Ten Pin wrote: »

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/emma-mhic-mhathuna-furious-at-proposal-shed-meet-taoiseach-to-choreograph-cervicalcheck-scandal-in-governments-favour-36926309.html

Disgusting behavior from FG activist, I feel Leo, Harris and Griffin need to be out and condemn it.

goat2 · 20-05-2018 06:12PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Disgusting behavior from FG activist, I feel Leo, Harris and Griffin need to be out and condemn it.

wow

HeidiHeidi · 20-05-2018 06:22PM

goat2 wrote: »

It is just so sad, and could have been avoided, if only they did the testing here in our country, instead of it being financial

I have every sympathy for those women who have had terminal diagnoses, but this is not correct and shouldn't be allowed to pass unchallenged.

Cervical screening is just that - screening, not an individual diagnostic test, and unfortunately there will always be false negatives. Wherever and however the test was done there was no guarantee that the outcome would not have been just the same for these women.

Lackey · 20-05-2018 06:38PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I have every sympathy for those women who have had terminal diagnoses, but this is not correct and shouldn't be allowed to pass unchallenged.

Cervical screening is just that - screening, not an individual diagnostic test, and unfortunately there will always be false negatives. Wherever and however the test was done there was no guarantee that the outcome would not have been just the same for these women.

Well perhaps someone should have told this to the consultant who told his now dead patient that she should ''join a gym' or 'see a psychologist' because she continued to seek medical help despite her smear screening came back clear because of pain and bleeding.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/it-was-horrific-no-person-should-have-to-go-through-that-widower-of-young-mother-fears-her-cancer-was-missed-36867189.html

HeidiHeidi · 20-05-2018 06:40PM

Lackey wrote: »

Well perhaps someone should have told this to the consultant who told his now dead patient that she should ''join a gym' or 'see a psychologist' because she continued to seek medical help despite her smear screening came back clear because of pain and bleeding.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/it-was-horrific-no-person-should-have-to-go-through-that-widower-of-young-mother-fears-her-cancer-was-missed-36867189.html

I'm not saying there weren't mistakes made - there were, and the whole process needs to be examined closely - but saying that Emma or Vicky would not have terminal cancer if the testing had been done in Ireland (as that post I replied to) is just simply incorrect.

Lackey · 20-05-2018 06:43PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'm not saying there weren't mistakes made - there were, and the whole process needs to be examined closely - but saying that Emma or Vicky would not have terminal cancer if the testing had been done in Ireland (as that post I replied to) is just simply incorrect.

And the experts in their field who resigned in protest and warned that exactly this situation would happen even down to the correct timeframe, because of outsourcing of testing disagree with you.

HeidiHeidi · 20-05-2018 06:46PM

Lackey wrote: »

And the experts in their field who resigned in protest and warned that exactly this situation would happen even down to the correct timeframe, because of outsourcing of testing disagree with you.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/confusion-over-role-of-screening-is-part-of-cervical-check-crisis-1.3499249

This article explains it much better than I can.

I was responding to that particular post which was incorrect. There are a million different strands to this whole issue, and like I say I'm not saying there weren't mistakes made.

But wherever and however the testing is done, there will always be false negatives. That's just a fact.

Stovepipe · 26-05-2018 05:24PM

Can I ask if she has a partner or husband? Of all the victims of all of this, she appears to have no visible male partner or husband, compared to the other well-known victims, who appear to be getting strong, obvious male support. Somebody must be backing her up, especially with five kids to look after.

goat2 · 27-05-2018 08:22PM

I think she moved to where she is living now about a year ago, her family may be from some other part of the country, I think Dublin, it is a hard situation for her, the suffering, worrying about the future of her children and her health, hopefully it can be taken care of and she left here to take care of them,

yourdeadwright · 01-06-2018 04:18PM

My oh had to go in last Monday to get a smear after recently having a child ,
She had previous of irregular smears before she got pregnant and after all the recent news in the papers was very nervous about it,
She just got a call 5 minutes ago from the Rotunda to inform her that they lost here test , what an absolute joke of a system we have,
Now I know she is lucky to have got that call to inform her but seriously how bad is out health care system ,
Just thought people should know the system is still an absolute mess , This has really really annoyed me ,
They where not going to tell her why she had to go back and she kept pushing asking why , obviously worried there was something wrong and eventually the women said they had misplaced her test .
Is there anyone you can contact to complain about this ?

Uriel. · 01-06-2018 09:08PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

My oh had to go in last Monday to get a smear after recently having a child ,
She had previous of irregular smears before she got pregnant and after all the recent news in the papers was very nervous about it,
She just got a call 5 minutes ago from the Rotunda to inform her that they lost here test , what an absolute joke of a system we have,
Now I know she is lucky to have got that call to inform her but seriously how bad is out health care system ,
Just thought people should know the system is still an absolute mess , This has really really annoyed me ,
They where not going to tell her why she had to go back and she kept pushing asking why , obviously worried there was something wrong and eventually the women said they had misplaced her test .
Is there anyone you can contact to complain about this ?

The Rotunda like all hospitals have a complaints procedure. You should engage with that and escalate as required.

iamwhoiam · 03-06-2018 10:40AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

My oh had to go in last Monday to get a smear after recently having a child ,
She had previous of irregular smears before she got pregnant and after all the recent news in the papers was very nervous about it,
She just got a call 5 minutes ago from the Rotunda to inform her that they lost here test , what an absolute joke of a system we have,
Now I know she is lucky to have got that call to inform her but seriously how bad is out health care system ,
Just thought people should know the system is still an absolute mess , This has really really annoyed me ,
They where not going to tell her why she had to go back and she kept pushing asking why , obviously worried there was something wrong and eventually the women said they had misplaced her test .
Is there anyone you can contact to complain about this ?

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/qavd/complaints/officers/hospital/cosrcsi.html#rotunda

Malayalam · 29-06-2018 02:18PM

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/terminallyill-emma-mhic-mhathna-settles-case-against-hse-and-us-laboratory-for-75m-37063844.html

I am very glad for her. Good woman. At least she won't have to worry about the children not getting help now as they grow up.

MOTHER-OF-FIVE Emma Mhic Mhathúna, who was diagnosed with cervical cancer in 2016 having previously received two incorrect smear results, has secured a €7.5m settlement after taking legal action.

The terminally-ill Co Kerry woman, whose children range in age from two to 16 years, had sued the HSE and a US laboratory used by CervicalCheck.

The settlement was announced in the High Court today.

Roger_007 · 29-06-2018 05:57PM

Malayalam wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/terminallyill-emma-mhic-mhathna-settles-case-against-hse-and-us-laboratory-for-75m-37063844.html

I am very glad for her. Good woman. At least she won't have to worry about the children not getting help now as they grow up.

Am I the only one who thinks that this award is massively out of proportion. If this is now the benchmark award for errors made in mass screening tests then we are going down a dangerous road. First, the smear test cases will have to be settled and then as sure as night follows day, all errors made in other screening programs such as Breast Check and the bowel cancer check, will have to be settled in the same way.
This is utter madness. No mass screening regime is 100% error-free. This will eventually cost us billions and reduce the money available to the rest of the health service.
I know my opinion won't be popular.

Smear Test Scandal

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