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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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  • #8312
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    joe40 wrote: »
    What were they doing, you've got me intrigued?

    Not sure why the video is not embedding properly. Heres an old fashioned link

    https://youtu.be/rnacb9RzdNw

    Id be surprised if it hasnt been posted in the thread already.


  • #8313
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,807 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Heres thebull85s video by the way.

    It's a nicely edited together series of some extremist moments on the Yes side, plus the council worker 'being paid to take down No posters', and the possibly dubiously acted video of the Galway no poster being pushed down the stairs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnacb9RzdNw


  • #8314
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    gmisk wrote: »
    I think look at the facts and make your decision based on that, rather than looking to specific people from either side.

    Why do you think we dont see this sort of behaviour from the pro life side?


  • #8315
    Dressing gown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Dressing gown


    trixi001 wrote: »
    So the payout was partly because the HSE breached the 8th amendment to the constitution by denying Savita her right to life, as protected by the constitution?
    And yet the yes side claim is that the 8th amendment caused her death?
    The 8th amendment did not deny her right to life, the inability of the government and medical professions to have laws and guidelines around the issue of abortion where the mothers life is at risk, caused Savita's tragic and avoidable death.
    Does NI, where abortion is restricted by law unless the life of the mother is at risk, have the same issues around healthcare of woman of a child bearing age?
    The wording of "exceptions" to abortion being illegal in NI is
    (Note taken form Wikipedia)
    An offence under section 25(1) of the Criminal Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 1945 is, by the proviso to that section, not committed if the act which caused the death of a child was done in good faith for the purpose only of preserving the life of the mother
    Case law in NI results in the definition of life being extended -
     In Northern Ireland Health and Social Services Board v A and Others [1994] NIJB 1, MacDermott LJ said, at p 5, that he was "satisfied that the statutory phrase, 'for the purpose only of preserving the life of the mother' does not relate only to some life-threatening situation. Life in this context means that physical or mental health or well-being of the mother and the doctor’s act is lawful where the continuance of the pregnancy would adversely affect the mental or physical health of the mother. The adverse effect must however be a real and serious one.
    Do we think removing the 8th amendment will actually lead to better healthcare for women?
    It is almost universal that women are asked if they are (or could be) pregnant during any medical procedure.
    Many countries do not perform certain procedures which involve radiotherapy on women that may be pregnant.
    I don't think that removing the 8th amendment will mean that scans etc will be carried out, outside the current menstrual window.
    If a woman has even the slightest possibility she is pregnant, and the procedure goes again, she finds out that against all the odds, somehow she is pregnant, and decides to keep the baby, and the child could then born with a severe disability due to being exposed to x, y &z.
    The removal of the 8th amendment is not going to remove the above risk, so it is not going to change the procedures around the scans, treatments etc.

    TL:DR my point was a in response to BellaBellas assertion that because he said something in 2013 it still applied as he hasn’t said anything since. Because he was involved in a court case that included (amongst 30 other grounds) an argument that the HSE was in breach of SAVITA’s right to life, (I have no idea what the other grounds were) it is very likely he has signed a gagging order preventing him from commenting publicly on anything to do with her death. You and I cannot infer anything from a court case that was settled in terms of the 8th amendment-there was no judgment.


  • #8316
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    I don't know were you live. I live in a small enough town and I'd know nearly everybody out canvasing. Now they are nice people involved in both campaigns but you'd cross the road to avoid them.
    I spoke to both sides briefly and they both were unsure of the information or telling lies.
    One thing I don't like about the Yes side on social media is. They post all these sarcastic meme's/rolling eyes/etc mocking no voters.
    I live in Dublin, I can see how things could be very different in a small enough town (I am from one of them myself originally :)...) so know what a goldfish bowl they can be.

    I think there can be sarcasm , condescending and sneary attitudes from people on yes side as well as no, its pretty horrible to be honest.


    I think most people will look at the facts and make their own decision I hope.


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  • #8317
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    Wrongway1985 wrote: »
    Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »
    On another thread on this, apparently Mattie McGrath claimed on Claire Byrne that Yes campaigners were acting against Savita's family's wishes. That's a lie, pure and simple. The only member of her family who has made statement on this referendum has said he's supportive of her name and image being used.

    He did indeed, he said she should be left out...2 seconds later was throwing about speculations regarding her. Double standards eh.
    What was really annoying about that comment was that he was not pulled up on it. It was allowed to stand and I believed it myself.
    On the TV3 debate last night they had a fact check session afterwards and they quoted where the father did indeed give his permission that her story be used.
    RTE really need to up their game.
    Whats the old saying "opinions are free but facts are sacred" something like that


  • #8318
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    gmisk wrote: »
    I think look at the facts and make your decision based on that, rather than looking to specific people from either side.

    I totally understand what you're saying, i dont really care enough either way to be honest. It was just an observation.

    There seems to be extreme hatred for opposing views.


  • #8319
    Bigbagofcans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    gmisk wrote: »
    I would have liked to join the local yes campaign but I wouldnt feel I have the knowledge or confidence to knock on doors.
    I have however donated (three time) bought badges, and talked to friends etc.


    I think its a shame though, the yes side who knocked on my door could not have been any nicer.

    I'd be the same as you, I wouldn't have the confidence to do door-to-do but I see on Facebook 'Together For Yes' are looking for campaigners for their information stands so that would be worth looking into.


  • #8320
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Why do you think we dont see this sort of behaviour from the pro life side?
    Sorry what type of behaviour do you mean?
    The comments are kind of getting a bit buried for me as on a phone.


  • #8321
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Why do you think we dont see this sort of behaviour from the pro life side?

    What behaviour specifically are you talking about? Neither side's supporters have a monopoly on any kind of bad behaviour.


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  • #8322
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    thebull85 wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnacb9RzdNw

    Council worker taking a no poster down......... yep that makes the yes side really bad


  • #8323
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    thebull85 wrote: »
    I totally understand what you're saying, i dont really care enough either way to be honest. It was just an observation.

    There seems to be extreme hatred for opposing views.
    That is perfectly fine as well :)
    I think a lot of people feel the same.

    I suppose its a very emotive subject for some people so there are bound to be some extremes.
    Im a man btw, and a gay man at that so not exactly someone who is likely to be effected by the referendum directly but I have close friends who have so I suppose my position would be informed more so by them.

    I would say also from my POV the same people on the No side this time are the same pretty much who were on the No side when it came to SSM referendum so I wouldn't tend to pay any heed whatsoever to most of them.


  • #8324
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Bigbagofcans wrote: »
    I'd be the same as you, I wouldn't have the confidence to do door-to-do but I see on Facebook 'Together For Yes' are looking for campaigners for their information stands so that would be worth looking into.

    There might be admin bits, collecting on the door at events and things too.


  • #8325
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Why do you think we dont see this sort of behaviour from the pro life side?

    Ah now, there was the video of yer man pulling down the Repeal posters in Cork(?), various videos of people shouting at Repeal campaigners, those fools ICBR and their posters outside maternity hospitals and the behaviour of the No supporters on the debate the other night.

    If you don't see it, its because you don't want to see it.


  • #8326
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Wasn't the council worker taking down illegally placed posters? And I should imagine the worker was paid to do so... by the council.


  • #8327
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »
    What behaviour specifically are you talking about? Neither side's supporters have a monopoly on any kind of bad behaviour.

    The video was posted correctly by another poster on the previous page, i havent personally seen similar behaviour or the absolute contempt of opposing views from the pro life side.

    Now i do know that just because i havent seen it doesnt mean its not happening from the other side. Id be quite happy to see evidence of similar behaviour from the pro life side.


  • #8328
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,636 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    thebull85 wrote: »
    The video was posted correctly by another poster on the previous page, i havent personally seen similar behaviour or the absolute contempt of opposing views from the pro life side.

    Now i do know that just because i havent seen it doesnt mean its not happening from the other side. Id be quite happy to see evidence of similar behaviour from the pro life side.

    Seems that the video shows a 'stolen' poster. Well, personal experience here, but during the night last night, posters & the post they were on, were stolen out of my yard. In the morning, there were a bunch of new No posters all through the area, high up on ESB posts.

    So, there's some evidence for you. They trespassed into my yard, stole the posters & the pole (probably because the posters were so well secured they couldn't simply yank them off), and then put up posters on the power poles, which I've since reported to ESB.

    Hadn't been ANY no posters out this way prior to last night.


  • #8329
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    trixi001 wrote: »
    And if the life of the mother is at risk, there is the option to terminate the pregnancy here also.
    A woman with cancer, can have an abortion and then radiotherapy - that is not against the constitution - as there is a real risk to the life of the mother - the risk does not have to be immediate.

    When there is an immediate risk to the life of the mother. Any woman will not be given a termination in this country if she has early stages of cancer. My cousin underwent 6 months of chemo & radiation after it. She was given a pregnancy test before each dose, she asked what would happen if she was pregnant & she was told by the nurse she wouldn't get her treatment, she would have to decide herself whether to terminate or not. & would have to travel to do it.

    And BTW, N. I. Does not have the same laws and here, they do not have a written constitution protecting the unborn. It's completely different & not comparable to our laws.


  • #8330
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Seems that the video shows a 'stolen' poster. Well, personal experience here, but during the night last night, posters & the post they were on, were stolen out of my yard. In the morning, there were a bunch of new No posters all through the area, high up on ESB posts.

    So, there's some evidence for you. They trespassed into my yard, stole the posters & the pole (probably because the posters were so well secured they couldn't simply yank them off), and then put up posters on the power poles, which I've since reported to ESB.

    Hadn't been ANY no posters out this way prior to last night.

    Why does the anger seem more prevalent on the repeal side though? Why are they angry, why the contempt for opposing views.

    The head on some of them young women, theyd have you locked up and the key thrown away for opposing them and there views if they had the chance.


  • #8331
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    Ah now, there was the video of yer man pulling down the Repeal posters in Cork(?), various videos of people shouting at Repeal campaigners, those fools ICBR and their posters outside maternity hospitals and the behaviour of the No supporters on the debate the other night.

    If you don't see it, its because you don't want to see it.
    Lady on twitter said her daughter and friend were followed by a 2 lads the other the other night shouting "murdering c*nts" while out canvassing.
    Today the lady herself got called a murderer and noticed the same car was going around the block for 2nd's.
    There are women in wheelchairs getting targeted and told they would have been aborted because they had yes stickers.


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  • #8332
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    thebull85 wrote: »
    The video was posted correctly by another poster on the previous page, i havent personally seen similar behaviour or the absolute contempt of opposing views from the pro life side.

    Now i do know that just because i havent seen it doesnt mean its not happening from the other side. Id be quite happy to see evidence of similar behaviour from the pro life side.
    There is a whole thread which covers lies/dodgy behaviour.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057861599


    There is a well circulated video of a man in Limerick for example tearing down the Rosa yes posters
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/04/17/tearing-them-down/
    Or Videos of the ICBR around Dublin with extremely graphic imagery outside maternity hospitals.

    This type of rubbish isnt on from either side IMO.
    I personally would ban posters for this referendum as well as for a general election but thats a whole other story.


  • #8333
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    From 2 hours ago https://twitter.com/RadQueersResist/status/997445453028392961?s=20


  • #8334
    Dressing gown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Dressing gown


    thebull85 wrote: »
    The video was posted correctly by another poster on the previous page, i havent personally seen similar behaviour or the absolute contempt of opposing views from the pro life side.

    Now i do know that just because i havent seen it doesnt mean its not happening from the other side. Id be quite happy to see evidence of similar behaviour from the pro life side.

    Calling people that are campaigning for a yes vote or who have had abortions murderers is a bit worse than telling someone to F off in my book. Maybe that’s just me. Yet man waters went a bit nuts at Eamonn Dunphy and they were mates (link about 10 pages back) and there is defo a link someway back of a woman cursing ‘murderers’ at yes campaigners. Both sides have been slinging plenty of mud.


  • #8335
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,159 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Last night a No voter aggressively followed us around reciting the bible and claiming we were ignoring 'facts', he only left us alone when we said we were calling the guards. A woman was assaulted on the Dart the other day just for reading a Yes leaflet that was handed to her outside the station. There are several examples on twitter of grown men getting right in the faces of female Yes campaigners in order to intimidate them. Any Yes campaigners I've met have been polite and respectful.


  • #8336
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Aniya Moldy Trowel wrote: »
    I've had people telling me they're voting 'no' but don't want to say it out loud in group conversations because it can get very nasty.

    I suppose on line debate is all that a lot of us have if we don't want to create irreparable divides between ourselves and friends/colleagues.

    I can see why it would create divides and personally I wouldn't look at a lot of people the same if the were no voters.

    I don't have much time for people who use their votes to curtail other people's lives. Exactly like the marriage equality referendum. There's
    No reason to want to control the lives of people you don't know and will never affect you. I find it very odd that anyone would want to tbh.

    Certain things are needed to be controlled by law, like the smoking ban etc, but some much more should be between to individuals/couples and their doctors etc , not anyone else outside of that that they dont want i volved.

    It's not my place.


  • #8337
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,714 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Has Dana made a statement yet?


  • #8338
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    Has Dana made a statement yet?

    Domestic or international?


  • #8339
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,636 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Why does the anger seem more prevalent on the repeal side though? Why are they angry, why the contempt for opposing views.

    The head on some of them young women, theyd have you locked up and the key thrown away for opposing them and there views if they had the chance.

    But, as I pointed out, I've given you evidence of direct impact on us from the pro-life side. As for the young women's comments in the video, have you gone to any pro-life rallies and video taped them? Pro-life has boundless resources, running their sites from outside Ireland and largely bankrolled from the US. That slick video (with the professional interviewer they had for the crowd), sure seems like something that cost a lot. Unfortunately, pro-choice is voluntary and hasn't got the funds, frankly.

    If I had to say where the anger is, it's emphatically on the pro-life side. Did you see their behavior on Claire Byrne's show? Stomping, hooting, hollering - and lying, of course.


  • #8340
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,382 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Domestic or international?
    Ok this is my favourite post on here for a LONG time!


    It makes Dana sound like a type of beer as well.


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  • #8341
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,714 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Domestic or international?

    Domestic of course!


This discussion has been closed.
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