8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Mrhuth wrote: »

While I wish the yes would win, I don't think we have a chance. The insane number of no posters and ads everywhere you go. Going to shop 5 minutes from my house, I see no everywhere. Last week in my town there were yes posters along with the no posters. This week the yes posters have disappeared somewhere yet the no ones remain on lamp posts. It's **** knowing that Ireland is still so backwards thinking and literally the only country in Europe which bans abortions. Sad.

I still hope (and think just about!) yes will win but I think it will be close.
I am not honestly sure posters have a massive effect, to be honest I am sick of the site of them.
I saw a billboard yesterday from the No side with a baby on it who I would say was a couple of months old, manipulative rubbish.
I think people will do their own research talk to friends etc and hopefully come to a researched opinion.

Mrhuth wrote: »

People are very easily brainwashed unfortunately.

Yes but I'd say there's about a 50/50 split between people are easily led and people who are more nuanced and capable of using their reasoning skills.

I'd say it will pass but it will be a very tight margin - 47/53 I'd say

joe40 wrote: »

If this referendum fails to pass I will despair at my fellow Irish people.
Not so much the people that have strong pro life views and possibly strong religious faith. I disagree with their opinion but can respect it is genuinely held.

It is the undecideds, the soft NO's that are more disappointing.
The people that didn't research the issue. Listened to the scaremongering soundbites.
This thread has been a wealth of information, with excellent, heartfelt contributions from people with real world experiences of this issue.
The only argument from NO side is that life begins at conception, therefore cannot be taken in any situation.
If that is your outlook, fine a NO vote is probably your thing.
If however you can see nuance, not this absolutist view, then there is no reason not to vote yes.
We have abortion, it is just been outsourced. This is primarily a health care issue.

Are there any other arguments from no side. Please not the slippery slope one, that makes no sense.

Absolutely spot on.


RE the slippery slope

Sure the sky didn't fall down in ireland when two people of the same sex were allowed to marry despite the protestations.
Mainly from the same people and groups who are involved in the No campaign this time!


I am hopeful that lots of younger people will vote and push the yes side over the line, fingers crossed!

Pugzilla wrote: »

Why is boards.ie so strongly in favour of the Yes vote? Seems like an echo chamber in here.

Why can no vote not enter a logical debate without hysterics that lead to bans?

pjohnson wrote: »

Why can no vote not enter a logical debate without hysterics that lead to bans?

Because they argue from emotion rather than arguing logically

Pugzilla wrote: »

I'm not voting, who wins is of no consequence to me.

Good for you I was explaining why no voters dont stay in the thread very long.

Pugzilla wrote: »

I'm not voting, who wins is of no consequence to me. Just trying to get a feel for voter sentiment.

Why do you think that?

fxotoole wrote: »

I'd say it will pass but it will be a very tight margin - 47/53 I'd say

I'm betting on a yes but by a very narrow margin as you suggest - my dad reckons there'll be a yes vote of more than 60%, and has very foolishly staked a pint of Guinness on being right about it :D:D

antiskeptic wrote: »

The whole country must have gotten the wrong end of the stick then. How'd that happen.



What do you think of the "every one else is doing it" tack Yes has been taking

This is your next last fig leaf? Trying to assert that abortion is just all about peer pressure and all the cool countries doing it?

Lol!

wexie wrote: »

Depends on where really, but whenever I need a colleague in the US as a rule I wouldn't ring them before 3pm (9am on the east coast).

So 4pm would about correspond to the time they've had a cuppa tea, checked emails and are settled in for a day of trolling :mad:

Hey!

sabat wrote: »

A non-confrontational question here, but can I ask how this differs from other countries? Do health care professionals everywhere not have a duty to ascertain whether a woman is pregnant or not before treating her?

What has it to do with other countries, that's as bad as but if a man got pregnant argument.
If I go through A+E for a MRI or CT scan which I have had to do in the past I was asked was there a chance I may be pregnant I said no and I presume they did a pregnancy test. I was scanned etc because there was a risk of sepsis and the condition was serious.
Another time I go in via outpatient ENT for a lump and I get told by the receptionist at the CT/MRI Suite sorry no can do you cant remember the date of your period. Now if I was a bloke I would not have been told no can do come back another time. I would have been scanned there and then.
The issue is with outpatient care women getting referred to consultants for a diagnosis but their treatment and diagnosis is delayed because it seems to be too difficult to take a womans word that she is not pregnant get her to sign a waver even give a woman a pregnancy test there and then. Men and women are not treated equally in hospitals. The HSE guideline use the 28 day cycle but how many women are regular and how can a xray / ct / mri clinician know if the scan is urgent when say a lump is unknown and the scan is needed to see what is happening. Too much emphasis is put into she may be pregnant rather than the patients health
This is the HSE Guildlines
https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/qualityandpatientsafety/safepatientcare/medexpradiatonunit/rp%20manual%20section%204%20patient%20pregnancy%20protocols.pdf

SPECIFIC GUIDELINES
 These guidelines apply to women of childbearing age. An age range of 12 to 55 years is a useful practical guide but should be used with caution.
The guidelines are recommended for any radiography, fluoroscopy or computed tomography examination involving irradiation between the diaphragm and symphysis pubis and for any radionuclide imaging examination.
 For those examinations listed above, the referring clinician must enquire about the pregnancy status of the patient.
 The referring clinician has a responsibility to ensure that the examination is justified and shall provide the practitioner with all relevant information as part of the examination request.
 For high dose examinations, involving greater than 10 mGy to the fetus, the 10 day rule should be applied4. In practice this means that abdominal or pelvic CT and some barium studies should be scheduled in the first 10 days of their menstrual cycle. This timing refers to patients with a regular 28 day cycle and should be scaled according to cycle length.


 For urgent examinations that are justified irrespective of pregnancy status, a clinical waiver section within the request, should be completed by the referring clinician.
 When a female patient of reproductive capacity presents for any of the relevant examinations above, the following process should be applied:
 The patient should be explicitly asked by the radiologist, the radiographer or the medical
specialist (if relevant), whether she is or might be pregnant and her answer should be
recorded in writing1,3
. The record should be kept according to local protocol. The date of the
first day of the last menstrual period (LMP) of the patient should be recorded. This can be useful when retrospective analysis of uterine exposure is required.
A brief but simple explanation should follow, such as: "I have to ask because radiation in pregnancy may increase the risk of childhood cancer above the natural baseline level" (see Table 1 for the risk levels or refer patient to physicist if patient requires more information).
 The examination may proceed if the patient states that she is not pregnant.
 When a patient answers that she:
 is pregnant, or
 might be pregnant or
 cannot exclude the possibility of pregnancy and the menstrual period is overdue
the referring clinician should be asked to review the justification for the examination,
bearing in mind the possible presence of a fetus.
Section 4 Patient Pregnancy Protocols
– 7 –
 When there is definite pregnancy, or potential for an unknown pregnancy, the review of
justification should consider the following:
 Is the examination critical to immediate and essential patient management, or could management proceed if the examination is deferred until pregnancy can be completed or definitely excluded?

 The use of contraception does not rule out pregnancy. Whilst contraceptive use mitigates against the likelihood of pregnancy, the efficacy of the method used is a matter for professional judgment and where there is doubt, these guidelines should be
followed.
 Pregnancy tests should not replace proper inquiry. Whilst positive pregnancy tests are useful in directing further justification, negative pregnancy tests undertaken before the period is due should be treated with caution. In particular, a negative urinary pregnancy test, taken at the point of care, should be confirmed with a more sensitive laboratory based test with the required sensitivity in those women where the possibility of
pregnancy cannot be ruled out

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question guys, When does the media black out begin next Thursday?

What an utterly pointless exercise in the social media age.

Larbre34 wrote: »

What an utterly pointless exercise in the social media age.

True but now that the big companies have bowed out of allowing advertising there seems to be a surge on No posters (and yes posters being removed) and even vandalism of mountains and stuff.