Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

1…238239241243244…324

Comments

  • #7202
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sheeps wrote: »
    I'm undecided as to how I will vote and as much as I'd like to see a solution for hard cases and the stories of women being supported through the horrific time that they go through when they travel to the UK, but I really do have a lot of difficulty trying to reconcile why the constitution shouldn't apply to a child inside the womb. I'd be grateful if someone please explain or rationalise it for me with out an appeal to emotion.

    Because the primary purpose of a Constitution is as a general guideline to how the State is 'managed', which includes the rights and responsibilities of citizens.
    Citizens are, by definition, already born.

    This is why, for example, foetus' do not get PPNS numbers - not is child benefit paid for them etc etc. They do not exist as citizens until they have been born.


  • #7203
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Sheeps wrote: »
    I'm undecided as to how I will vote and as much as I'd like to see a solution for hard cases and the stories of women being supported through the horrific time that they go through when they travel to the UK, but I really do have a lot of difficulty trying to reconcile why the constitution shouldn't apply to a child inside the womb. I'd be grateful if someone please explain or rationalise it for me with out an appeal to emotion.

    I posted this earlier in the thread . I am not sure if it will help but its how I made up my mind


    I too have some misgivings about abortion on demand .But its happening anyway and it will still happen .Having said that I have to put my misgivings aside and vote Yes because I think its my duty to keep women safe .I could not justify voting NO if it puts one woman in danger .I cannot vote No if it means a woman has to carry a child of a rapist or a baby with FFA . My misgivings are my misgivings but I will put them aside because this is too huge an issue to simply dismiss because I have misgivings .I have daughters and nieces and granddaughters and I have to ensure I do the right thing to keep those girls safe .


  • #7204
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Serious question, what bad things do you think Yes campaigners have done?
    I ask in case they are genuine 'bad' things we can change in the campaign or if it's a case of individuals who are voting Yes doing things you disapprove of..

    Removing posters & some campaigners being very forceful with their views. But not seen anything that compares with the NO side personally.


  • #7205
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Dressing gown wrote: »
    Program on BBC2 now
    Watching it now, good so far.
    It's a spotlight programme on the referendum BTW.
    Very factual.


  • #7206
    Dressing gown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Dressing gown


    Sheeps wrote: »
    I'm undecided as to how I will vote and as much as I'd like to see a solution for hard cases and the stories of women being supported through the horrific time that they go through when they travel to the UK, but I really do have a lot of difficulty trying to reconcile why the constitution shouldn't apply to a child inside the womb. I'd be grateful if someone please explain or rationalise it for me with out an appeal to emotion.

    Hi Sheeps. Amnesty International have called for the 8th amendment to be repealed. The United Nations have called for the 8th amendment to be repealed. If you have faith in the judgment of these two highly respected organisations that is a reason why without emotion.

    A foetus is protected in the womb by Irish legislation.

    The foetus is protected by its mother in the majority of instances. If you’ve ever angered a pregnant woman you will know they can be pretty fierce. The mother has a right to life ergo the foetus benefits from that in the majority of cases. Unless the pregnancy is not wanted.


  • Advertisement
  • #7207
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Removing posters & some campaigners being very forceful with their views. But not seen anything that compares with the NO side personally.

    All I can say is that Together for Yes have made it very clear that we disapprove of NO posters being removed - even though people may get angry when they see that YES posters have been taken down and dumped.

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'very forceful' - it would be great if you could give me an example. I'm not saying some YES campaigners haven't lost the run of themselves when emotions are running high, but I would like an idea of what you mean by it.


  • #7208
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Sheeps wrote: »
    I'm undecided as to how I will vote and as much as I'd like to see a solution for hard cases and the stories of women being supported through the horrific time that they go through when they travel to the UK, but I really do have a lot of difficulty trying to reconcile why the constitution shouldn't apply to a child inside the womb. I'd be grateful if someone please explain or rationalise it for me with out an appeal to emotion.
    I would recommend reading the in her shoes stories on Facebook, not easy reads but I feel they are essential and tell real stories of woman and couples effected by the amendment.


  • #7209
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’ve just posted but I’d think it would be a good idea if it were my last post, and I’d encourage any other no voters to withdraw from this thread and leave the repeal enthusiasts to discuss the referendum amongst themselves, as there maybe undecided voters lurking around this thread who could benefit from reading the unchallenged thoughts of the “yes” team.

    Translation. I can't post snide comments and not get called on them so I'm off.

    I personally agree with your not paying children's allowance for more than x children, but for those who are means tested and don't require it. What I don't agree with is your idea that people who can't afford more than 2 children should be sterilised and my taxes being spent on bringing back mother and baby homes, because unlike what you have said there is still a danger that the past will be repeated.


  • #7210
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭up for anything


    gmisk wrote: »
    Wow thank you so much for sharing that story.
    Your dad sounds like a bit of a legend and a gent you must be very proud :)

    He is and I am as you can tell. :D


  • #7211
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    All I can say is that Together for Yes have made it very clear that we disapprove of NO posters being removed - even though people may get angry when they see that YES posters have been taken down and dumped.

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'very forceful' - it would be great if you could give me an example. I'm not saying some YES campaigners haven't lost the run of themselves when emotions are running high, but I would like an idea of what you mean by it.

    Only seen 1 person being very forceful, basically the person was clearly voting NO but the Yes campaigner wouldn't let them pass. Its only one such incident i have personally withnessed


  • Advertisement
  • #7212
    Just her
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭Just her


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    The abortion laws in place back when the 8th was passed dated from 1861, so he wasn't far wrong!

    They've been replaced since, but the new laws are only a small bit better. And coincidentally, those new laws were universally opposed by everyone campaigning for a No vote now.



    If you really believed that, then why the heck aren't you campaigning about all the women who travel. Why aren't you calling for more Gardaí resources to track down the women who import and use the abortion pill?

    With an estimated 5000 Irish women having abortions per year, why aren't you, or anyone else on the No side, doing any of the things we would expect someone to do if they genuinely thought abortion was the taking of a human life?

    I didn't know there was any debate about it being a human life that was ended through abortion, seriously. The foetus/baby is definitely human. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus

    How do you know what I do or don't do?


  • #7213
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    up for anything wrote: »
    He is and I am as you can tell. :D
    And rightly so :)

    I felt the same thing during the SSM referendum when talking to some people, I would say never judge a book by its cover.
    My gran 85 at that stage was a big yes for SSM despite being a devout catholic.


  • #7214
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    I think No will win
    Yes vote seems to be falling apart.

    Boards tends to be an echo chamber of pro liberal yes voters but most people I discuss it with are uncomfortable with how liberal it is and are voting no. This is more liberal than the UK.


  • #7215
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Just her wrote: »
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9582428/Abortion-24-week-limit-QandA.html

    So you'll research the statements of other posters, but not your own. Grand so...
    Just her wrote: »
    I didn't know there was any debate about it being a human life that was ended through abortion, seriously. The foetus/baby is definitely human. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus

    How do you know what I do or don't do?

    I know that you're not doing anything in this regard, because no one is. No one calling for women to be stopped from having abortions abroad. No one is calling for women who have illegal abortions to stand trial. In fact, many No campaigners have said the opposite and don't want women to be stopped or put on trial.


  • #7216
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Only seen 1 person being very forceful, basically the person was clearly voting NO but the Yes campaigner wouldn't let them pass. Its only one such incident i have personally withnessed

    My wife was in Kells on Tuesday night, love both campaigners were around the supervalue centre. One of them would not let any woman refuse to take one of their leaflets.
    When the supervisor of the store came out to tell him that he would have to leave as they had a number of complaints about his behavior and thst he was on private property and did not have a permit to be there he refused to leave as no one had complained to him.
    My wife was about to say something when a guy beside her said he was complaining to him and the store supervisor about his behavior.
    The campaigner tried to hand my wife and the guy a leaflet which was met with a polite no, so he proceeded to leave but stopped at every car on the way to place a leaflet.

    I've been in the Uk for the last couple of weeks so I'm not seeing either side, but my wife has been out and about and anyone who she has met from the yes side have been respectful, or she has been with door to door with has been the same.
    Again just her experience but given that most people have the ability to record video and post it straight away it's harder for people to get away with being overly obnoxious without someone capturing it.


  • #7217
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    I think No will win
    Yes vote seems to be falling apart.

    Boards tends to be an echo chamber of pro liberal yes voters but most people I discuss it with are uncomfortable with how liberal it is and are voting no. This is more liberal than the UK.

    I am sorry but the proposed legislation is not more Liberal than the UK for a start. They are generally carried out up until 24 weeks (obv excluding Northern Ireland but thats a whole other story!) , and proposal here is 12 weeks.

    We will see come polling day I suppose. I would like to think Ireland has moved on since the last referendum on this issue and is less under the thumb of the Catholic Church and the like but we will see.
    I am predicting it to be close 55 yes to 45 no maybe, but every vote important.


  • #7218
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    I think No will win
    Yes vote seems to be falling apart.

    Boards tends to be an echo chamber of pro liberal yes voters but most people I discuss it with are uncomfortable with how liberal it is and are voting no. This is more liberal than the UK.

    I'm getting more confident that it'll be a Yes, albeit by a tight margin.

    The Claire Byrne Live debate was an own goal for the No campaign. They let the mask slip and people didn't like what they saw. There are more people joining Yes canvasses and voters are leaning more and more towards Yes based on what I've heard is coming up on canvasses.


  • #7219
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Just her wrote: »
    I didn't know there was any debate about it being a human life that was ended through abortion, seriously. The foetus/baby is definitely human.

    How do you know what I do or don't do?

    There isn't a debate about that, and links to articles on wiki are typical the kind of misguidance going on. I don't see anywhere it was denied it wasn't human.

    A foetus cannot live among the living, it needs it's host. To put a foetus on par with someone who can live independent of a host defies logic tbf.


  • #7220
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    gmisk wrote: »
    I would recommend reading the in her shoes stories on Facebook, not easy reads but I feel they are essential and tell real stories of woman and couples effected by the amendment.

    What you don't appear to recommend reading is the HSE investigative report into Savita Halappinavar's treatment.

    It points the finger at all sorts and recommends looking at everything, up to and including the Constitution, to prevent reoccurrance.

    It has nothing negative to say about the 8th. Not one thing.

    It anyone thinks otherwise then the thread in the Politics forum (Elections and Referendums: Outright lies...) is where I'll be


  • #7221
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    What you don't appear to recommend reading is the HSE investigative report into Savita Halappinavar's treatment.

    It points the finger at all sorts and recommends looking at everything, up to and including the Constitution, to prevent reoccurrance.

    It has nothing negative to say about the 8th. Not one thing.

    It anyone thinks otherwise then the thread in the Politics forum (Elections and Referendums: Outright lies...) is where I'll be

    WARNING: Poster will not actually listen to any posts. Poster is determined he is right and will twist and manipulate the truth, regardless of what anyone says.

    Just so ye know if you do go over to that thread to "debate" with him.


  • Advertisement
  • #7222
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    What you don't appear to recommend reading is the HSE investigative report into Savita Halappinavar's treatment.

    It points the finger at all sorts and recommends looking at everything, up to and including the Constitution, to prevent reoccurrance.

    It has nothing negative to say about the 8th. Not one thing.

    It anyone thinks otherwise then the thread in the Politics forum (Elections and Referendums: Outright lies...) is where I'll be
    Antiskeptic lots of other people have read it and responded to you directly....

    In her shoes are real life stories by real woman and couples effected by this amendment, or are you suggesting they aren't genuine?

    Like the 'genuine' story of noel the nurse that the no side trotted out.... Working all those years as a nurse...come on lol


  • #7223
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    WARNING: Poster will not actually listen to any posts. Poster is determined he is right and will twist and manipulate the truth, regardless of what anyone says.

    Just so ye know if you do go over to that thread to "debate" with him.

    He also believes that abortion is a genocide, and deserves to be labeled a Holocaust.


  • #7224
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    What you don't appear to recommend reading is the HSE investigative report into Savita Halappinavar's treatment.

    It points the finger at all sorts and recommends looking at everything, up to and including the Constitution, to prevent reoccurrance.

    It has nothing negative to say about the 8th. Not one thing.

    And that's your fig leaf. Your only fig leaf.


  • #7225
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter wrote: »
    In other news, polling card arrived this morning.

    Same as

    By any chance did it arrive with a "no" pamphlet? I've heard stories that An Post were requested to deliberately include a no leaflet with the voting cards

    Be interested to know if there's any truth to it. mine arrived with a no leaflet


  • #7226
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,958 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Read a No leaflet today. It talked about the health service being overstretched and how abortion on demand would add to this. Lovely attitude towards women, really.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #7227
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Same as

    By any chance did it arrive with a "no" pamphlet? I've heard stories that An Post were requested to deliberately include a no leaflet with the voting cards

    Be interested to know if there's any truth to it. mine arrived with a no leaflet
    Seriously?


  • #7228
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Same as

    By any chance did it arrive with a "no" pamphlet? I've heard stories that An Post were requested to deliberately include a no leaflet with the voting cards

    Be interested to know if there's any truth to it. mine arrived with a no leaflet

    Mine came today as well, as a No leaflet and a Yes leaflet. An Post couldn't have been more balanced if they tried! :D


  • #7229
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Read a No leaflet today. It talked about the health service being overstretched and how abortion on demand would add to this. Lovely attitude towards women, really.
    Maybe some of those American dollars could be diverted into women's health care as opposed to rubbish and expensive flyers and booklets that arent fit for the fire


  • #7230
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Mine still hasn't arrived, nor has anyone else's in the house.


  • Advertisement
  • #7231
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Mine still hasn't arrived, nor has anyone else's in the house.

    Your neighbors?

    I'd hate to think postmen were choosing what houses deserve a vote


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement