Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

1…216217219221222…324

Comments

  • #6542
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,626 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Where to start? How about that babies can aborted up till birth. That seems like a good starting point.

    Seems like a grave distortion, I wonder was Steen using the 'miscarriage is also abortion' to distort her message. Because that can happen at any stage, sadly. But it's not a clinical termination.


  • #6543
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did Katie Hannon get her analysis. She seemed to suggest the constitution would be amended after the legislation goes to the president. Surely the constitution is amended by the referendum, and the new wording is put in.
    Any legislation will not be part of the constitution.
    I listened back a few times and she has me confused. Am I missing something

    A statutory instrument enabling the deletion of the 8th and insertion of the 36th amendments would be brought to the President. If he is satisfied correct procedure has been conducted in relation to the vote, he must sign it and cannot veto. It isnt legislation.

    The amendment if passed (read it) allows the Oireachtas to make provision by law (legislate) for the termination of pregnancy thereafter.


  • #6544
    RabbleRouser2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,626 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    I can't keep up with this thread, I'm still 35 pages behind!! I spent the afternoon responding to rabid No voters on facebook. Apparently there's something amiss with me if I advocate murder and tearing a child from their mothers womb:rolleyes:

    I'm going looking for an obstreperous t-shirt tomorrow, I'm sure I'll find somewhere to print one. The nuns in school used to always describe me as obsterperous - and they were right:)

    I'm also laughing at the posts that somebody was trying to defend a No vote by implying that an unwanted pregnancy would clash with the womans skiing holiday. I actually found out I was pregnant on my last skiing holiday - I had to go and buy the most rudimentary pregnancy test so my scant knowledge of German would understand the result. Turns out it was either Schwanger, or Nicht Schwanger. Well I was well and truly schwangered! No ruination of the holiday and I skied better after I found out.

    Mind if I ask if you kept the pregnancy? Just curious, and no judgement here-I've kept my choice of vote off of social media because while I'm planning to vote yes, I've seen friends with their 'repeal' or 'love both' tags get hostility from all sides.


  • #6545
    eric hoone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭eric hoone


    Apologies for my ignorance but who drafted the proposed bill that we are hearing about? I want to vote Yes as my sisters are but I don't like the idea it's a done deal on the legislation more or less


  • #6546
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    joe40 wrote: »
    Did Katie Hannon get her analysis. She seemed to suggest the constitution would be amended after the legislation goes to the president. Surely the constitution is amended by the referendum, and the new wording is put in.
    Any legislation will not be part of the constitution.
    I listened back a few times and she has me confused. Am I missing something

    A statutory instrument enabling the deletion of the 8th and insertion of the 36th amendments would be brought to the President. If he is satisfied correct procedure has been conducted in relation to the vote, he must sign it and cannot veto. It isnt legislation.

    The amendment if passed (read it) allows the Oireachtas to make provision by law (legislate) for the termination of pregnancy thereafter.
    Thanks for that. So the president approves the referendum decision, but she did not need to talk about the government legislation. I understood that to be a separate issue


  • Advertisement
  • #6547
    Kurtosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did Katie Hannon get her analysis. She seemed to suggest the constitution would be amended after the legislation goes to the president. Surely the constitution is amended by the referendum, and the new wording is put in.
    Any legislation will not be part of the constitution.
    I listened back a few times and she has me confused. Am I missing something

    As I understand it, it's the 36th Amendment to the Constitution Bill that is the legislation that actually changes article 40.3.3 of the constitution that will go to the president for signing if the referendum is passed.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/29/


  • #6548
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    A.Partridge wrote: »
    I thought his disrespect to Peter Boylan's credentials as one of Ireland's leading obstetricians was an absolute disgrace.

    I think he 'immediately regretted that decision', but no matter he said it, was bang out of order and will no doubt find the next IOBGYN christmas party quite tense, having insulted the chair of his professional body and the 80+% of the ordinary membership that agrees with him.


  • #6549
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    eric hoone wrote: »
    Apologies for my ignorance but who drafted the proposed bill that we are hearing about? I want to vote Yes as my sisters are but I don't like the idea it's a done deal on the legislation more or less

    It's proposed legislation. It will have to be debated if the 8th is repealed and will possibly be amended in order to go through. We won't have women getting abortions for months if at all.


  • #6550
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    joe40 wrote: »
    Thanks for that. So the president approves the referendum decision, but she did not need to talk about the government legislation. I understood that to be a separate issue

    Nope. There are published heads of a bill, indicating what the Govt would do, loosely, and around which there was plenty of debate tonight. Anybody can read them.

    Given the way they were weaponised by No, perhaps drafting a full text may have been wiser.


  • #6551
    fxotoole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    But King Herod Varadkar won't allow that

    Invoking religious imagery. Nice way to win people over.


  • Advertisement
  • #6552
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    A statutory instrument enabling the deletion of the 8th and insertion of the 36th amendments would be brought to the President. If he is satisfied correct procedure has been conducted in relation to the vote, he must sign it and cannot veto. It isnt legislation.

    The amendment if passed (read it) allows the Oireachtas to make provision by law (legislate) for the termination of pregnancy thereafter.

    To be (very) pedantic, it is legislation, but it's not the legislation about what the abortion laws will be.

    A bill to change the constitution goes through all the same steps as all other bills, with one addition. So it'll be created in the Dail or Seanad, debated and voted on by politicians, and if passed by the TDs and Senators, end up being sent to the President for signing.

    The addition is that after being passed by TDs and Seantors, it is put to a referendum of the people. If the people vote in favour of the change(s), the bill then goes to the President to be signed into law and the Constitution is then changed. If the people vote against it, nothing more can happen with it.


  • #6553
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,360 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »
    Mind if I ask if you kept the pregnancy? Just curious, and no judgement here-I've kept my choice of vote off of social media because while I'm planning to vote yes, I've seen friends with their 'repeal' or 'love both' tags get hostility from all sides.

    I did! But I did go for a NIPT to ensure all was well first. Surprise pregnancy in my 40s so I wanted to be prepared. A very good friend of mine had been through a FFA and had travelled so I was all too cognisant of the reality. Another woman I knew had carried her Edwards syndrome baby to term and he lived for 2 days. I couldn't have done that.


  • #6554
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    eric hoone wrote: »
    Apologies for my ignorance but who drafted the proposed bill that we are hearing about? I want to vote Yes as my sisters are but I don't like the idea it's a done deal on the legislation more or less

    The Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Govt drafted it, on the instruction of the Cabinet, with the input of the Attorney General.

    The OPCG work to the admin side of the Oireachtas

    It will still go through all stages in the oireachtas before any of it becomes law


  • #6555
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There should have been no audience for that "debate". Audience made up of hard liners on both sides clapping and cheers and the usual lines trotted out.

    G'way with your Trumpian 'both sides' nonsense. It was visibly and audibly one side doing it.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #6556
    KKkitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If babies were fully formed at 12 weeks why does pregnancy last 40 weeks?
    The bits and pieces might be there but they are not fully formed or fully mature. They aren’t functioning.

    My brother was born at 36 weeks which wouldn’t even be considered that premature but he was still on steroids and in an incubator because his lungs weren’t mature enough and he couldn’t breathe on his own.
    That was only 4 weeks early.

    My daughter was born at 34 weeks gestation. I had pre eclampsia and toxiemia was also setting in. I had to have an injection of steroids for her lungs. She had to stay in an incubator for 5 weeks. Anyone who wants to tell me that every organ is fully functional way earlier than that can jog on.


  • #6557
    circular flexing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    eric hoone wrote: »
    Apologies for my ignorance but who drafted the proposed bill that we are hearing about? I want to vote Yes as my sisters are but I don't like the idea it's a done deal on the legislation more or less

    It's far from a done deal on the legislation, particularly with lack of support from Sinn Fein and parts of Fianna Fail (as it stands SF would have to vote against the legislation as this is what was agreed in their Ard Fheis).

    I would encourage you though to separate the two phases - the vote on May 25th is to repeal the 8th Amendment only, it's not going to mean abortions will be allowed starting May 26th, the existing legislation (Protection of Life During Pregnancies Act would still be in force).

    The second phase would be legislation to replace that Act, but it will be subject to the same debate as any other legislation.


  • #6558
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Nope. There are published heads of a bill, indicating what the Govt would do, loosely, and around which there was plenty of debate tonight. Anybody can read them.

    Given the way they were weaponised by No, perhaps drafting a full text may have been wiser.

    They can't do that because as things stand that legislation would be unconstitutional. Once the 8th is repealed then they can draft the Bill properly.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #6559
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    They can't do that because as things stand that legislation would be unconstitutional. Once the 8th is repealed then they can draft the Bill properly.

    Yes that much I implied. Big asterisks everywhere...


  • #6560
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Anyone with any feedback on the debate can email RTby emailing complaints@rte.ie.

    I may or may not have already sent them a mail with my thoughts on tonight’s show.

    Also saw on twitter that Claire ignored the Yes side during breaks and at the end of the show and would only speak to the No side.
    Clear where her loyalties lie.

    Sent one myself.

    As someone pointed out on Twitter, it was disgraceful that RTE provided no helpline nos. etc. at the end for the many people who have suffered harm and distress because of crisis pregnancy and the issues surrounding it.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #6561
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Sent one myself.

    As someone pointed out on Twitter, it was disgraceful that RTE provided no helpline nos. etc. at the end for the many people who have suffered harm and distress because of crisis pregnancy and the issues surrounding it.

    The row would still be ongoing in studio if they did. Every helpline would outrage some fecker. This isnt Eastenders.


  • Advertisement
  • #6562
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    The row would still be ongoing in studio if they did. Every helpline would outrage some fecker. This isnt Eastenders.

    Easy way to address that. Give contact info for the Crisis Pregnancy Agency and the Iona Institute. That way RTE are "balanced" (tm). :D


  • #6563
    eric hoone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭eric hoone


    Dressing gown wrote: »
    The obstetrician on the no side was lying. All the bits are not in place. Boylan tried to explain even after birth an enormous amount of development is still taking place. My PhD from Cambridge University is in neuroscience. The brain is not fully formed formed at 12 weeks that obstetrician was not being honest. Look it up. It was a barefaced lie. I’ve held my own dead foetus in my hand too. It was not enjoying life. It was dead.

    I hope there's very little neural development up to that point it would put a lot of minds at rest about the procedure.


  • #6564
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Well that certainly played a part with Savita as Mattie discussed

    LOL

    You just scoffed at the idea that a doctor could be wrong. Now you are more than happy to throw them under the bus if it sits your narrative.

    You’re not as clever as you think you are!


  • #6565
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Where to start? How about that babies can aborted up till birth. That seems like a good starting point.

    Since there are to be no gestational limits, babies can be aborted up to birth. I don't think she was suggesting on vague mental grounds.


  • #6566
    Kurtosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    Pregnancies may be terminated after 12 weeks in certain circumstances. Once the point of viability is reached, a termination of pregnancy means an early delivery.


  • #6567
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Since there are to be no gestational limits, babies can be aborted up to birth. I don't think she was suggesting on vague mental grounds.

    There are terms limits for all types of abortion permitted in the legislation, bar one particular and rare set of circumstances. So it is a lie to say there are are to be no limits.


  • #6568
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Since there are to be no gestational limits, babies can be aborted up to birth. I don't think she was suggesting on vague mental grounds.

    Termination of pregnancy does not equal abortion


  • #6569
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Hiya Splinter65

    Still waiting for your reply to

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106976907&postcount=5293

    Will be offline until the weekend but will address it then.

    Standing by everything I said in that post. If you don’t like it, use the report button.


  • #6570
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Since there are to be no gestational limits, babies can be aborted up to birth. I don't think she was suggesting on vague mental grounds.

    Unsurprising that the lad who thinks an abortion is a Holocaust can’t distinguish much else either.

    What reason would there be to kill an unborn fetus up to birth? You’ve just read a few stories from contributors here who had their pregnancies terminated via a delivery 4, 5 weeks ahead of the due date, with underdeveloped lungs and on incubation and steroids. You know, not pleasant conditions but certainly within the period of viability for a fetus to be brought to a forced birth aka termination of pregnancy.

    So what do you define as abortion up to birth, and where does this happen currently, and where does it happen without restriction?

    Will you answer that or pretend it was never asked?


  • Advertisement
  • #6571
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Standing by everything I said in that post. If you don’t like it, use the report button.

    So you can't link to any post where I said what you claim with your usual fake outrage style replies when caught.out. Good to know you admit your lying,


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement