8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Neyite · 14-05-2018 01:17PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This is one reason that I respect the Catholic Churches view on all of this - they really do believe in the sanctity of life, and really think raped women should give birth, and that babies with a FFA should be born even if they have no brain and die nearly immediately. They are opposed to MAP and IVF as it affects embryos, too.

I don't agree with that position, in fact the the vast majority of the public don't agree with it, even the nominal catholics, but i respect that at least that t is consistent.

Anyone who supports abortion for rape victims, however, has already agreed to treating the right to life on a case-by-case basis, sanctity and absolutism are out the window.

I've a few relations who think this way also and while I hate that they have those views I respect their right to hold them and they truly feel that life is sacred no matter what. Their view of a woman dying while pregnant when an abortion could have saved their lives is that the woman is a martyr and will be a shoe-in for heaven. Which from their point of view must feel like a fast-track one is lucky to get but not so much from those who don't share that brand of Faith and would much rather stick around in this life.

The people who say they believe life is sacred from conception but agree with abortion in rape cases really need to examine their thinking behind that. No doubt it would be uncomfortable for many to do that but this referendum is shining the spotlight on each of us and where we stand morally as people and if that makes people examine why their opinions are the way they are it's good. Critical thinking is always good.

nozzferrahhtoo · 14-05-2018 01:18PM

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

That would be a good name for an abortion clinic. "The Baby Bashing Clinic (your babies brains will be bashed in with three strikes or less or your money back) "

Reminds me of a place in cork that, for reasons only know to the managers, they decided to name "The Domestic Violence Resource Center".

wexie · 14-05-2018 01:19PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Reminds me of a place in cork that, for reasons only know to the managers, they decided to name "The Domestic Violence Resource Center".

jayzus....

looking for some tools to baet the missus?....we've got what you need!!

:rolleyes:

joe40 · 14-05-2018 01:29PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

cournioni wrote: »

Why? What is wrong with equality?

So you are saying that if your wife discovered she was pregnant while going through cancer treatment, and her treatment was stopped, you'd be happy for that to be the case, because the unborn zygote is of equal worth to her?
You would be happy for her to gamble her life to gestate a pregnancy, and you wouldn't even entertain the idea of an abortion so she could continue treatment?

And you're saying that if your frightened 15 year old daughter came you you terrified and devastated, pregnant after her first experience with her boyfriend, you would be insisting she embrace motherhood and would not allow her have an abortion? Even though it would undoubtedly affect her education and future opportunities, not to mention the fact she does NOT want a baby?

Because that's exactly the reality you are forcing onto other families. You might think they are "hard cases" and be rare occurrences but they aren't. They are happening every single day to born, living people.
People who are loved and cared about and who would be sorely missed if they passed away.

I should not be deemed to be of equal worth and value to a pre >12 week old fetus unless I choose to be.
I am worth more than the contents of my womb and my healthcare should not be compromised because of it.

Great post, sums the situation for me up very well.
This is also why virtually every developed country, with well established human rights, have some form of laws permitting abortion. They can't all be wrong!!

They understand this issue is complex and cannot be distilled down to soundbites or a few lines in a constitution.

Just look at the countries that allow abortion and the ones that don't, where would you rather live? Only ourselves and Malta left in Europe.

NuMarvel · 14-05-2018 01:33PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That's my lunch break sorted tomorrow. I'll be popping into Together for Yes and buying a few obstreperous t-shirts.

I'm tempted to get a t-shirt or a badge with "obstreperous repealer" on it

erica74 · 14-05-2018 01:45PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

I'm tempted to get a t-shirt or a badge with "obstreperous repealer" on it

That's even better!

Grayson · 14-05-2018 01:57PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I googled John Clerkin... here's what I found: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/selling-condoms-1.44115

From your link. This is what condoms do.

Value free sexuality causes most women to be polled as fearing public transport after dark. It favours drug abuse, as indeed on the DART as a pushers' location among school kids. Last November a teen got condoms from a machine, and then died front drug abuse at a former CIE depot. And before the condom campaign we had the EC's lowest sexual AIDS rate

]When I google his organization it comes up with this.

https://irishelectionliterature.com/2013/06/18/a-rather-extreme-pro-life-leaflet-leaflet-from-the-childrens-protection-society/

It's a series of posters similar to the one I posted already. I'm not going to spam the thread with all of them though. I think just about everyone on this thread, on both sides, will recognize that this guy has serious issues.

wexie · 14-05-2018 02:00PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I googled John Clerkin... here's what I found:

Grayson wrote: »

. I think just about everyone on this thread, on both sides, will recognize that this guy has serious issues.

Just tried to read that article....

Far be it from me to diagnose mental health issues based on a single letter...but that man is not well.

Grayson · 14-05-2018 02:03PM

wexie wrote: »

Just tried to read that article....

Far be it from me to diagnose mental health issues based on a single letter...but that man is not well.

To be fair he's for jobs for Youth, not condoms

gmisk · 14-05-2018 02:07PM

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair he's for jobs for Youth, not condoms

So youths can have any job not involving condoms?
Sounds spot on to me.....

NuMarvel · 14-05-2018 02:07PM

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair he's for jobs for Youth, not condoms

Flipping condoms, coming over here taking our jobs!!!

gmisk · 14-05-2018 02:09PM

Grayson wrote: »

From your link. This is what condoms do.

]When I google his organization it comes up with this.

https://irishelectionliterature.com/2013/06/18/a-rather-extreme-pro-life-leaflet-leaflet-from-the-childrens-protection-society/

It's a series of posters similar to the one I posted already. I'm not going to spam the thread with all of them though. I think just about everyone on this thread, on both sides, will recognize that this guy has serious issues.

The only thing that I really took any notice off was the cat/dog outlined in yellow.
How is he involved in it all?!?!

Frank Bullitt · 14-05-2018 02:19PM

https://twitter.com/TonightShowTV3/status/995693903318790144

John Waters needs help. He is a very sick man.

Dressing gown · 14-05-2018 02:23PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Flipping condoms, coming over here taking our jobs!!!

ðŸ˜‚

That was a laughing emoji just discovered they don’t work! Thanks for making me laugh out loud!

seamus · 14-05-2018 02:24PM

"Bullying". While he talks over her and shouts at her.

This is the pro-life agenda. Shout down, intimidate and bully, while playing the victim.

darem93 · 14-05-2018 02:28PM

An anti-repeal van is patrolling the streets here and I saw it cross the border into Belcoo multiple times. I didn't think any referendum stuff could pass into the North but I guess not.

Grayson · 14-05-2018 02:32PM

Dressing gown wrote: »

&#55357;&#56834;

That was a laughing emoji just discovered they don’t work! Thanks for making me laugh out loud!

The more links I click on the stranger he becomes.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hate-filled-leaflet-claims-gays-7305453

On this link there's a bigger photo where you can see he signed it.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/leaflet-claiming-hitlers-gay-ss-responsible-holocaust-handed-out-derry-1541974

He says Hitler was 7:1 Homosexual or 8:0 Bisexual.
I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Guys like this ultimately harm the pro life side. I'm not sure anyone here would actually support him unless it was for a laugh.

wexie · 14-05-2018 02:36PM

Grayson wrote: »

I'm not sure anyone here would actually support him unless it was for a laugh.

Here as in Boards or here as in Ireland?

In the case of Boards I think perhaps you might be right.

The country overall....I can only say I wish I shared your confidence

iamwhoiam · 14-05-2018 02:36PM

Obstreperous !! I love that word , haven't heard since I was a little girl ! My nana used to use it and if found guilty we got a whack of tea towel !

neonsofa · 14-05-2018 02:43PM

cournioni wrote: »

Abstinence is.

Who said anything about a punishment? I was referring to people being accountable for their actions.

Do you think that unborn should have their lives taken from them because two people decided to have some fun and ended up creating a child?

So let's say a young irresponsible couple want to "have some fun" and dont use contraception, because some teenagers/young adults, even when 18 and 19, reckon they're invincible and believe pregnancy just wont happen to them.
You reckon they need to be held accountable for their actions.
If that couple can barely realise the consequences of their actions prior to having sex, do you really think they're going to have the wherewithal to ensure the child is looked after and provided for when they can't even manage to look after themselves in terms of family planning.

If they can barely comprehend the consequences of sex and act accordingly, then the child that's brought into that situation is the one facing the consequences of their irresponsible decisions not them.

And it's easy to list off the options like adoption etc. But again, if the couple can't even plan for their "bit of fun" is the mother really going to care for the unwanted baby for 9 months, providing nourishment through a healthy diet, abstaining from smoke/alcohol/drugs (when they couldn't even abstain from sex, shock horror!), seek legal advice on adoption, engage in the adoption process etc.

It's also the child that they bring into that situation that faces the consequences.

It wasnt me123 · 14-05-2018 02:55PM

cournioni wrote: »

I’m undecided, ......... To me, it is cruel and wrong to take away that life and the flippant way that it is being thrown about by the yes side is quite disturbing.

So not really undecided. Clearly you have never had an abortion, there is nothing flippant about it. The fact that you think that a woman will have her hair done at 9am, nails at 11am and book an abortion for 1pm shows how little you understand in what is involved in an abortion and what happens to a womans body.

Repeal all the way - body autonomy for all, not just men

Mint Sauce · 14-05-2018 02:56PM

darem93 wrote: »

An anti-repeal van is patrolling the streets here and I saw it cross the border into Belcoo multiple times. I didn't think any referendum stuff could pass into the North but I guess not.

I know we can complain a lot about Save the 8th, Love Both, etc, etc, but think there is little to give out about here.

I assume its driving through Blacklion and maybe Glenfarne as well. Knowing the road, am guessing its easier for them to swing around at the junction to Garrison (a few hundred) metres over the border, than it is to do a three point turn, on a main road just before the bridge/border.

As long as they are not out canvassing in Belcoo, I dont see an issue.

This is the same as complaining about PSNI cars crossing the border, to make a U Turn at a roundabout 100m over the border, rather than make a threepoint turn along a main road on the border approach, when patroling a stretch of road.

gmisk · 14-05-2018 02:56PM

Grayson wrote: »

The more links I click on the stranger he becomes.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hate-filled-leaflet-claims-gays-7305453

On this link there's a bigger photo where you can see he signed it.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/leaflet-claiming-hitlers-gay-ss-responsible-holocaust-handed-out-derry-1541974

He says Hitler was 7:1 Homosexual or 8:0 Bisexual.
I have absolutely no idea what that means.

Guys like this ultimately harm the pro life side. I'm not sure anyone here would actually support him unless it was for a laugh.

I had a quick google.....he seems......hmmmm.....unhinged
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/selling-condoms-1.44115

14-05-2018 03:07PM

cournioni wrote: »

Abstinence is.

So, you only have sex for procreation right?
& my boyfriend & I, who don't wish to have children should wait until I go through the menopause to have a full loving relationship, enjoying sex?

Sebastian Dangerfield · 14-05-2018 03:18PM

I was at the Mayo v Galway game yesterday. MacHale park was well covered with pro-life / "No" stands all around it. One had plastic dolls of what they claimed represented foetuses at various stages of gestation. One of them took me by surprise, given it was bigger than my 9 week old baby.

I was going to stop and ask how much they were charging for the toy toddlers for the craic, but didn't have time.

wexie · 14-05-2018 03:18PM

bubblypop wrote: »

So, you only have sex for procreation right?
& my boyfriend & I, who don't wish to have children should wait until I go through the menopause to have a full loving relationship, enjoying sex?

You're not allowed to enjoy sex!!!

It's ONLY for procreation :mad:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It wasnt me123 · 14-05-2018 03:18PM

reubenreuben wrote: »

Holy Mary!

I suppose it was her fault to start with

(if she even exists)

It wasnt me123 · 14-05-2018 03:19PM

never_mind wrote: »

Going on my first T4Y canvass tonight and am bricking it.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on and the response of the householders.

Overheal · 14-05-2018 03:24PM

I have yet to see positive outcomes from abstinence only education. In almost all places it’s tried it results in at best no rate change in the unplanned pregnancy rate, and at worst skyrockets it as well as the transmission rate of STDs.

It’s kind of like arguing the best way to avoid the flu is to live in a bubble but it’s just not realistic.

joe40 · 14-05-2018 03:27PM

wexie wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

So, you only have sex for procreation right?
& my boyfriend & I, who don't wish to have children should wait until I go through the menopause to have a full loving relationship, enjoying sex?

You're not allowed to enjoy sex!!!

It's ONLY for procreation :mad:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Procreation, not recreation!! As the saying goes.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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