8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

DubInMeath wrote: »

Nope Tom from having to try and help a loved one deal with their rape, and reading his comments I know he has an issue no thought crime police needed.

Impossible to have any kind of discussion when you accuse someone of something, when all they can say is "no I'm not". It's not conducive to debate. The argument is being won here by Yes posters who choose not to personalise things, not by dissecting a poster who may have a different view.

He was asked 2 direct questions. One. Who should rape be reported to. Two. Should that then be reported to the police.

His crime, was to answer the questions directly. It doesn't matter if there are perceived flaws in his approach, or that it may not be practical, you can't attack someone for answering questions put to him, nothing more, nothing less.

Only in my opinion of course.

thee glitz wrote: »

I'd say it depends on what level. Just giving general information, no details, they absolutely should report that a rape has occurred. Why not? Giving a general location, better again, and why wouldn't they...

Would you have any understanding how traumatic a rape could be and why a rape victim might be unable to report a rape even having to only give "general information"?

Just a reminder of what the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre has said about rape exceptions in abortion laws (emphasis added):

If there is to be special consideration of those who have suffered rape, this requires the pregnant rape victim to make a report and to claim that the rape occurred. Requiring a pregnant rape victim to share the traumatising experience about her rape and subsequent pregnancy has the potential to not only re-traumatise, re-trigger and re-victimise her; it also leaves her in a situation where she has to convince people that her story justifies access to support.

If after exploring all of her options, a woman decides that she cannot go through with a pregnancy resulting from the crime of rape, we should not add any hurdles or barriers to the process.

An exception fails to address the reality of women who become pregnant against their will because the term limits our understanding of both the nature and extent of rape.

thee glitz wrote: »

I'd say it depends on what level. Just giving general information, no details, they absolutely should report that a rape has occurred. Why not? Giving a general location, better again, and why wouldn't they...

Because reporting rape, and going through the legal process is a very difficult, and incredibly traumatising thing to have to do. Often the victim is left feeling as though it's their fault, or that they deserved it somehow. They can be left feeling dirty and as though they are a slut. They could have been raped by a friend, by a family member. They might think they wouldn't be believed, or if it is someone close, they might be worried about hurting other people.

On top of that, they have to process the act itself. The humiliation, the powerlessness, the pain. The hows, the whys, the whats. Some women would rather die than have to live through that again, but you're insisting that they get questioned and grilled on every aspect of their life. From what they were wearing, how they were acting, what they said, why were they where they were. Then they have to explain the act over and over, every detail relived repeatedly with just about no mental support, to see if anything about the story changes, despite many people shutting down during the act as a coping method. Then, if they manage to get to the end of it without too much added trauma, they might hopefully be able to get a conviction and a sentencing... but there's no guarantees.

DubInMeath wrote: »

Grand I'll forget your earlier thought crime police comment against me from earlier then as your assigning something you believe about me that isn't true.

:pac: excellent.

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

..... He was asked 2 direct questions. One. Who should rape be reported to. Two. Should that then be reported to the police.

His crime, was to answer the questions directly. It doesn't matter if there are perceived flaws in his approach, or that it may not be practical, ......

It might not matter to you but it matters to women who may be in that position. I don't want flaws in my medical care or if I've been raped, by the Gardai.

IMO, the trouble with trying to allow abortion for issue A, B & C and nothing else is that its not a black/white situation. Its shades of grey and the Constitution cannot deal with shades of grey, that's why we are having a referendum.

Its not up to me or any other stranger as to why a woman/couple has decided on a patricular path, we don't know their circumstances, don't live their life, its their decision and everybody else should mind their own business and get on with their own lives. IMO

conorhal wrote: »

So? I have no say on what happens in anybody elses back yard. I do in my back yard and nobody's burying babies in it.

This is a humorous way of thinking. The reality is your fellow Irish citizens have their own “back yards” that also have nothing to do with you.

If you want no say in what they do in it the. Vote to repeal. As it is you’re forcing people to carry pregnancies that you don’t trust them to have.

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Stop with the ranting and the sanctimonious clap trap.

I have cousins who feel totally rejected because they were adopted, that's their reality.

Do you think all adopted children went to wonderful homes, to loving families? They didn't, some went to single elderly people, or elderly couples who were incapable of understanding how to parent. Others were used as unpaid help.

One of my cousins was called and introduced as "the adopted boy" - how the hell do you think he felt.

There are thousands of adults that survived industrial schools, mother and baby homes with addiction and mental health problems.

I don't live in utopia - I live in reality. Not all children are wanted, for whatever reason and sometimes it might be kinder to both the woman and the child for an abortion. Don't be so bl**dy judgy.

I also know adopted people who had a beautiful life, given to them by their adoptive parents, and today with gay marriage legal, I should think that people in gay marriage can also adopt, I am not certain if they can, but I am sure thay would make great parents if they so wished to adopt a child to complete their family

spookwoman wrote: »

Looking into their background they are a group setup to block those graphic and obscene images the pro life lot have been displaying outside hospitals.
I think this was their launch and they wont be out there unless ICBR turn up. I know the Radical Queers are doing the same thing where they go to these ICBR protests and they drape flags etc over the banners

https://twitter.com/KAClifford/status/994572396748247040
http://www.universitytimes.ie/2018/05/the-yes-campaigns-guardian-angels/

This came about as a response to the graphic images being displayed outside hospitals by the No campaign. The inspiration was the way Radical Queers Resist dealt with the same shower outside Panti Bar and The George where they raised Rainbow flags up to block the images. Some members of Artist's against the 8th suggested angel costumes as had been used in the U.S. to block mourners from seeing the vileness that is Westboro Baptist Church when they were 'protesting' at the funerals of servicemen/women. A line of angels stands in front of the images and raises their wings.

Personally, I think it's a wonderful thing to do. It's a local initiative. Theatrical costumers in Dublin gave their time and expertise free, people worked together to make them and they are ready to respond should the need arise.

Pac1Man wrote:

I'll be voting no anyways. I feel there's a certain obligation and responsibility to raise a child if you fall pregnant, whatever the circumstance.

Another one from the forced birth brigade.

You have no idea how painful and traumatic pregnancy and childbirth are. Not to mention the responsibility of raising a child.

But you don't care because that's not your problem I suppose.