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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Haven't been on the thread in two days and I come back to

    Murderers
    Comparisons with genocide
    Hitler
    Aborted baby jokes - give it a poxy rest, I'd prefer it if jokes weren't made where the subject of those jokes are the likes of the baby my partner and I aborted, and the one January aborted.

    There are individuals in this thread who need a serious dose of the cop ons.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Spent months mostly tweeting about abortion when there was a crisis in the hospitals, and nothing about the bed shortages. His department fighting terminally ill women tooth and nail to the doors of court houses.
    Simon says the HSE boss resigned not because of the cover up but for confidence in the health system - despite it being in memos from 2016 that the cover up was to avoid media attention. He can’t even be honest about why Tony O’Brien had to go.
    The same Simon Harris who allowed the HSE boss have two jobs, when he was already failing at his current job, given the health system here needed full attention.

    This is actually sick. You have basically treated pregnant women with cancer as collateral damage upto now. Suddenly you are now twistedly using women with cervical cancer.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,426 ✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    So has my other half, your point being?

    You missed the earlier memo perhaps, it's not a commie plot any more, its a Muslim plot, either that or your supposed to call us nazis, while ignoring the fact only retain have links to neo nazi groups.



    The Nazis were Socialists.

    You make light of me but I have as much right to post in here as you.

    I was up this morning at stupid o'clock putting up posters. You get to see all the small print up close. All YES posters bar the exception are from left wing organisations. Workers Party, Sinn Fein, People before Profit, Labour Party(nor sure do they count), Feminist Socialist....

    Why on earth would ANY more no posters be going up? Jesus Christ, they're everywhere. Some places there are 3 on every poll and if there's a pole with a yes poster on it, the place gets splattered with no posters all over again. I hope you'll be out there after the referendum taking them and the tags holding them down again because it'll be some task!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    "I am 36 years old & I have cystic fibrosis. I was diagnosed at approx 2 weeks old. My health was gradually deteriorating as expected for most people with cf with age.

    In 2013 there was medical breakthrough for people with my genetic mutation G551D & the new wonder drug Kalydeco was born. I had no idea how this would change my life. I went from struggling to walk up the stairs to running 10km. I went from very frequent hospital visits to one third of the hospital visits. In figures I went from 46-50% lung function to 64% lung function. I was no longer deficient in various vitamins/minerals. For the first time in my life I felt "healthy". Fast forward 2 years of taking kalydeco - I felt great & life was good. My partner & I went travelling overseas. While there, I contracted the flu. I was hospitalised in Dublin on my return. You can imagine my utter shock when not only had I gotten the flu but they discovered I was over 2 months pregnant. I was always told by the hospital that I would need IUI or IVF to conceive (if ever) as with a lot of cf girls. I believe the Kalydeco kicked my fertility into action. I seen my unborn as a little miracle. However little did I know that once you are pregnant in Ireland- your life no longer matters & you no longer have control over your own body or life!

    From the moment the consultant at St Vincent's hospital found out I was pregnant, all drugs were stopped apart from my enzymes for digesting food including my kalydeco. My bundle of joy soon turned to a bundle of worry & stress. I knew how sick I was about to get. His reasoning was of course the drug was new & they had no idea of the side effects it would have on my unborn as no trials are conducted on pregnant woman. He said he had no data/information to go on so therefore that was it. Full stop. I was terrified. told him he had the data of what my health would be without Kalydeco & how sick I would get. He was knowingly going to put me back to 45-50% lung function (which is considered dangerous for cf people to have kids & is strongly not recommended). That's the moment I realised I no longer mattered. All that came from him from there on in was the importance of my unborns life & how I couldn't have my meds back. He even went so far as faxing my chemist to rescind my prescription for Kalydeco. It was a mixture of emotions. While I one hand I was thrilled I was going to be a mum which I never thought I would be but on the other hand I spent my time petrified I would die & not live to see him/her grow up as many CF girls have ended up needing transplants after having a baby. I believed that if this baby had any chance, he/she needed a healthy mum. I wanted my baby but I also wanted to live. I thought about The consultants point of view & I offered to sign a legal health waiver stating that if my unborn came out with any disabilities or deformities I would not sue him or the hospital. He would not even discuss the option. I was powerless over my own body & health. What kept being reiterated was - All that mattered was my unborn. The possible effects on my unborn.

    The only information I had to go on concerning Kalydeco & pregnancy were trials where 5 times the human dose of Kalydeco had been given to pregnant rats & their babies showed no signs of any issues & a blog from a girl in the US who remained on Kalydeco while pregnant & whose baby had no issues. So I made the decision to leave Ireland & go back to Australia with my partner. I attended the Alfred hospital in Melbourne where I was given a choice. I signed a legal health waiver & got my Kalydeco back. They done research on my medications to see which were pregnancy safe to give me & my baby the best chance of survival. I attended the Alfred hospital for my CF & Monash hospital for my pregnancy. They worked very closely together & always knew where each other were at with my treatment. Of course there was a huge possibility that my pregnancy would not go well & the possibility of induction from 26+ weeks was discussed in the event that my lungs started failing. I breezed through the pregnancy & my lung function was 62% at the of the birth.

    The care I received was second to none. I remember one of my doctors in the Alfred saying to me, "our job is to care for you, to keep you healthy & keep you alive while also making sure the drugs we give you are safe for your baby without compromising your health. It's Monash hospitals job to care for your pregnancy".

    I mattered again. It was strange. I felt like they really had our best interest at heart & not their reputation. When I went back to Australia I had many choices. I had the option for abortion if my health deteriorated. I had the option for induction at any stage past 26 weeks if I was at risk. I had the option to keep my Kalydeco. I had the right to choose. I took a chance staying on Kalydeco & it paid off. I am now married and I have 2 gorgeous healthy boys & my lung function has remained stable all the time. I strongly believe had I stayed in Ireland this would very much not be the case. I often wonder what would have happened If I stayed there for my first pregnancy, when my health started to fail & I had no option for abortion, if I ended up on the transplant list or if I even made it through the labour. At what point (if any) would they think maybe she should have had a choice over her own life. I would rather not get an abortion but I'd rather have the option if I needed one as I would also like to live. I did not like my life being dictated by one man. One man who cares more about his reputation than his patients. I was his patient for 16 years but this meant nothing once I was pregnant. Maybe if abortion was legal he might have seen it differently & maybe even tried to care for both of us. In the end - Everyone's circumstances are different. We should all have the right to choose".

    So... Any no voter here, tell us again how the 8th amendment doesn't affect women who are pregnant with health issues?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    erica74 wrote: »
    Who cares what party is behind what posters? Why does that actually matter to you?

    The poster seems to have a particular bee in their bonnet about communism, socialism, and other left-leaning ideologies.

    Since they’re so interested in political theory, strange how they assert that Nazis were socialist.

    I reckon he needs to go back to school:

    https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,643 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    splinter65 wrote: »
    The answer to the ffa is 2%.
    Inconvenience is an umbrella term capturing all the many reasons not covered by medical reasons for mother or child,
    Inconvenience is used by planned parenthood in the US as the umbrella term and is the reason given in 72% of abortions they perform.
    Here’s the UK gov latest report.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/570040/Updated_Abortion_Statistics_2015.pdf

    Where please? Because I can't find that term on the Planned Parenthood site except in relation to downsides of certain contraceptives that are more inconvenient to use than others.

    Concerning reasons for abortion, I can't see it anywhere:
    https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/considering-abortion

    You wouldn't be making it up, would you?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,643 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    fxotoole wrote: »
    The poster seems to have a particular bee in their bonnet about communism, socialism, and other left-leaning ideologies.

    Since they’re so interested in political theory, strange how they assert that Nazis were socialist.

    I reckon he needs to go back to school:

    https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/

    I think they were socialist in the way the People's Republic of North Korea is run by the people of NK.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    Correct. And this poster is now trying to imply that all left leaning parties in Ireland that support a Yes vote are Nazis.

    It's a common alt-right tactic to try to discredit left-leaning opponents, when they don't actually have an argument of any substance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    fxotoole wrote: »
    It's a common alt-right tactic to try to discredit left-leaning opponents, when they don't actually have an argument of any substance

    I won't be ashamed to admit I did Nazi that coming whatsoever.

    I've been bamboozled it would appear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    volchitsa wrote: »
    I think they were socialist in the way the People's Republic of North Korea is run by the people of NK.

    But, hey, they gave out medals to women for having lots of babies, which is what the original poster wants, despite his whining about Yes posters from groups with "social" in their name.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,161 ✭✭✭frag420


    I won't be ashamed to admit I did Nazi that coming whatsoever.

    I've been bamboozled it would appear.

    Ann Frankly you should not feel ashamed for your beliefs!!:D

    This is gas fun altogether...


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    erica74 wrote: »
    Who cares what party is behind what posters? Why does that actually matter to you?

    They offend his political view.


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Where please? Because I can't find that term on the Planned Parenthood site except in relation to downsides of certain contraceptives that are more inconvenient to use than others.

    Concerning reasons for abortion, I can't see it anywhere:
    https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/considering-abortion

    You wouldn't be making it up, would you?

    Get ready for a reply full of fake rage and saying you said something you didn't from her. I haven't heard from her since I called for her to link to the actual post where I am supposed to have said something or admit she's lying.


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is actually sick. You have basically treated pregnant women with cancer as collateral damage upto now. Suddenly you are now twistedly using women with cervical cancer.

    Already been called on it no reply.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Catholic Bishops this week: "Abortion is worse than rape"

    Also Catholic Bishops this week: "Don't report confessions of child abuse"

    The Catholic Church has no compassion. It has no humanity and is as immoral and corrupt an institution as you will find.

    I hope people see the irony in their claim to be guardians of the unborn in Ireland while they also put out official directives to protect child abusers and rapists.


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Haven't been on the thread in two days and I come back to

    Murderers
    Comparisons with genocide
    Hitler
    Aborted baby jokes - give it a poxy rest, I'd prefer it if jokes weren't made where the subject of those jokes are the likes of the baby my partner and I aborted, and the one January aborted.

    There are individuals in this thread who need a serious dose of the cop ons.

    You need to add people being sterilised after they have two children if they need social welfare so splinter65's taxes aren't spent on their third or subsequent child's children's allowance and any other assistance required.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    You need to add people being sterilised after they have two children if they need social welfare so splinter65's taxes aren't spent on their third or subsequent child's children's allowance and any other assistance required.

    But yet wants mother and baby homes back.


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But yet wants mother and baby homes back.

    Yeah and I'd say she would be moaning about them re her taxes too if they did come back.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106976849&postcount=5288

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106976907&postcount=5293


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Finally got round to looking up who was behind the same poster I keep seeing around the north west stating "babies will die" abortion never.

    https://abortionnever.ie/

    Good old Justin Barrett and the Irish (not remotely racist) National Party.

    Are they just the extream outliers or are their sentiments reflective of the no campaign as a whole?

    Is there an equivalent organisation on the Yes side?


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Finally got round to looking up who was behind the same poster I keep seeing around the north west stating "babies will die" abortion never.

    https://abortionnever.ie/

    Good old Justin Barrett and the Irish (not remotely racist) National Party.

    Are they just the extream outliers or are their sentiments reflective of the no campaign as a whole?

    Is there a mirror organisation on the Yes side?

    Don't know of any group or individual for in Together For yes, who advocate for the death penalty to be returned in general and for it to be handed down to any doctor that assists in an abortion.

    Some of the no side might be embarrassed by them, youth defence claim he was never in a leadership position, which is a joke, but I'd say in general they (no in general) also agree with him.

    It would be interesting to know who is funding their posters however, outside their and youth defences known European links that is


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56



    https://abortionnever.ie/

    Good old Justin Barrett and the Irish (not remotely racist) National Party.
    Showing the same mugshot over and over and over again in different postures.

    "Great.":(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Haven't been on the thread in two days and I come back to

    Murderers
    Comparisons with genocide
    Hitler
    Aborted baby jokes - give it a poxy rest, I'd prefer it if jokes weren't made where the subject of those jokes are the likes of the baby my partner and I aborted, and the one January aborted.

    There are individuals in this thread who need a serious dose of the cop ons.

    Did you miss the "a 1000 of those that traveled from Ireland to England for abortions were mixed race, so they don't count?"

    That was fun. Good times.

    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    The proposed legislation allows for termination under limited circumstances up to 'viability'. Viability is generally agreed to be about 23 or 24 weeks.
    The legislation does not mention a number of weeks for that, but 24 weeks is a fair enough number.

    In limited restricted circumstances yes.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Im voting no for definite

    If there's a yes...

    There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

    When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

    More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

    Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

    Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

    The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

    But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

    Sure there must be loads of people not born in the last 30 years then because of condoms!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    In limited restricted circumstances yes.

    Now I'm no scientician or lawologist, but wouldn't it be possible that, in the future, when medical science advances make it possible to deliver the fetus at an earlier point, and ensure survival, then the viable term time becomes shorter? And so the law changes with it?

    Or am I misunderstanding it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Sure there must be loads of people not born in the last 30 years then because of condoms!

    And I loved the cheeky insinuation that everyone here is under 30. And that we would have an abortion rate of 50% if it does become legal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Paranoid Bob


    Now I'm no scientician or lawologist, but wouldn't it be possible that, in the future, when medical science advances make it possible to deliver the fetus at an earlier point, and ensure survival, then the viable term time becomes shorter? And so the law changes with it?

    Or am I misunderstanding it?
    The law mentions viability as assessed by two doctors, so if the medical reality changes the law does not need to change to take that into account.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    The law mentions viability as assessed by two doctors, so if the medical reality changes the law does not need to change to take that into account.

    That sounds like a good idea to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai



    Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

    Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

    You're not really voting no to save lives, then are you? You're voting to keep it out of Ireland.
    The hypocrisy of it all

    Couldn't have put it better myself


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Shadowstrife


    If you haven't canvassed before, join TogetherfoYes and get out a make a start. After a few nights of canvassing, it feels like you're contributing value to the Yes campaign.

    Get out and canvass!


This discussion has been closed.
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