8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

conorhal · 12-05-2018 10:13PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I wonder how many people spent a fortune on flights and accommodation only to change their mind about wanting an abortion, but felt pressure to follow through because of the massive waste of money of the travelling expenses being lost?

Well isn't that just extra specially sad?

I know somebody for who that was the case, she cried in the waiting room, she cried all the way though the procedure and nobody ever ask her if she was doing the right thing.

Sofiztikated · 12-05-2018 10:15PM

conorhal wrote: »

I've already stated that I would be sympathetic to your case and that of FFA.

As I've already stated, that's not what we're voting for.

Are you happy to vote for abortion on demand in the first trimester (and the second subject to vague conditions)?

Up to 12 weeks, unrestricted access, and in certain conditions afterwards, yes. The vast majority of abortions that happen, happen within 12 weeks, so it's a good place to set the limit. I don't care their reasons, because their reasons are not mine to judge.

Ave Sodalis · 12-05-2018 10:16PM

conorhal wrote:

I know somebody for who that was the case, she cried in the waiting room, she cried all the way though the procedure and nobody ever ask her if she was doing the right thing.

Could you imagine if someone just made the hardest decision of their life, to abort a very much wanted baby due to any of the reasons for doing, and the hospital kept pestering her about whether she was doing the right thing? Through reading In Her Shoes, many many women cry but still know they are making the correct decision for them.

12-05-2018 10:16PM

conorhal wrote: »

Well isn't that just extra specially sad?

I know somebody for who that was the case, she cried in the waiting room, she cried all the way though the procedure and nobody ever ask her if she was doing the right thing.

So you know a murder in your own words, any comfort provided by you or did you inform them of what you believed they are when they told you this?

borderlinemeath · 12-05-2018 10:16PM

conorhal wrote: »

Well isn't that just extra specially sad?

I know somebody for who that was the case, she cried in the waiting room, she cried all the way though the procedure and nobody ever ask her if she was doing the right thing.

And if she could have had the procedure here, there would have been far more support, family and friends so could have made a more informed decision. Why can't you see that?

Sofiztikated · 12-05-2018 10:17PM

conorhal wrote: »

Well isn't that just extra specially sad?

I know somebody for who that was the case, she cried in the waiting room, she cried all the way though the procedure and nobody ever ask her if she was doing the right thing.

So how is that kinder than letting her do it at home, where she could have support of her family and friends?

Pherekydes · 12-05-2018 10:20PM

conorhal wrote: »

You are conflating a miscarriage and an abortion. It's not dictating to others to defend the right to life of an other.

Miscarriage = spontaneous abortion = abortion.

Snowflakes :rolleyes:

12-05-2018 10:20PM

conorhal wrote: »

I probably wouldn't vote, it's an unworkable and unfeasible suggestion and impossible to police.

I can only vote on what is permissible where I can effect legislation. I do wonder however how many times that the time it took to organize an abortion in an English clinic was the time it took to realize it was not the choice a woman wanted to make.

My friend went to England for abortion in the early 90s, paid for by her parents. She didn't have one, but as she herself says, she made the choice. She had that choice.
She is voting yes to repeal, she thinks women should have that choice here & not have to go to England to do it.
Oh, & she was under a lot of pressure when there, seeing as her parents paid for her

conorhal · 12-05-2018 10:22PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

We had a 100% success rate with it before we voted in the 13th Amendment, so it would definitely be workable and possible to police. But even if it wasn't, surely you'd vote Yes on principle anyway. That way, if things changed, it could start being put into effect straight away.

But in reality, you don't want actually want to stop abortions, you just want to pretend they don't happen in Ireland. It's not the unborn you're worried about, it's NIMBYISM.

Really? Show me how that 100% enforcement was achieved?
That's just nihilistic BS. There are many things I think are unworkable, the 'war on drugs' for example. That does not mean I'd be happy with my kid sitting in her room smoking weed all day or that I'd be happy to legislate for it.

conorhal · 12-05-2018 10:24PM

bubblypop wrote: »

My friend went to England for abortion in the early 90s, paid for by her parents. She didn't have one, but as she herself says, she made the choice. She had that choice.
She is voting yes to repeal, she thinks women should have that choice here & not have to go to England to do it.
Oh, & she was under a lot of pressure when there, seeing as her parents paid for her

Would her kid still be in her arms if the abortion clinic was just down the road? Will the other children facing her dilemma, if this referendum passes?

macgowan89 · 12-05-2018 10:25PM

bubblypop wrote: »

My friend went to England for abortion in the early 90s, paid for by her parents. She didn't have one, but as she herself says, she made the choice. She had that choice.
She is voting yes to repeal, she thinks women should have that choice here & not have to go to England to do it.
Oh, & she was under a lot of pressure when there, seeing as her parents paid for her

i was going to vote yes for abortion cos all my friends are voting yes
but then i seen the video " a silent scream"
it's an x-ray view of an abortion
when dr goldstein attacks the baby with his silver implements the baby tries to retreat in the womb to a safe corner
but dr goldstein gets the baby
what a shame

you can see the baby screaming but it's silent

12-05-2018 10:27PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

i was going to vote yes for abortion cos all my friends are voting yes
but then i seen the video " a silent scream"
it's an x-ray view of an abortion
when dr goldstein attacks the baby with his silver implements the baby tries to retreat in the womb to a safe corner
but dr goldstein gets the baby
what a shame

Don't worry too much about it, that won't happen here.....

conorhal · 12-05-2018 10:28PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

So how is that kinder than letting her do it at home, where she could have support of her family and friends?

To what? Kindly force her to have an abortion? You do realize that is what the poster said, her family pressured her into traveling for an abortion.

It seems to me that the time away from them and reflect, cemented her decision to choose in favor of her baby.

12-05-2018 10:29PM

conorhal wrote: »

Would her kid still be in her arms if the abortion clinic was just down the road? Will the other children facing her dilemma, if this referendum passes?

Well, her kid is 23 now, so not so much in her arms! & yes she would because the biggest pressure she felt was that her parents paid for her to go to England.
Easier to decide here, in your own country.

12-05-2018 10:32PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

So how is that kinder than letting her do it at home, where she could have support of her family and friends?

What the no side are also ignoring or ridiculing is the purposed 72 reflection period. By doing so they are ignoring the 'once I thought about it, I couldn't do it' stories they often peddle out.

While I'm sure some women will not change their minds in this period due to what ever reason they have to require an abortion, some I believe will for their own reasons too. Much less chance of this happening when time, money and other pressures involved in having to travel are present as they currently are.

So by refusing the chance of having abortions as indicated in the legislation proposed byvoting to repeal the 8th, these pro lifers are happy to have these abortions to go ahead as long as its not done in Ireland.

wexie · 12-05-2018 10:33PM

conorhal wrote: »

her family pressured her into traveling for an abortion..

There is absolutely nothing in that story to suggest that.

Just says that the parents funded it. Nothing to suggest that wasn't at her request, nothing to suggest that the parents pressured her.

And I'd have imagined if the parents were pressuring her they would have come to make sure she went through with it.

Dressing gown · 12-05-2018 10:33PM

conorhal wrote: »

Would her kid still be in her arms if the abortion clinic was just down the road? Will the other children facing her dilemma, if this referendum passes?

Conor the pills can be ordered online. So the clinic is in her hand if she wants to order pills. Regulation in Ireland means she can talk freely to someone that won’t judge her before she makes a decision. And the most vulnerable ones, the teenagers with no money and no one they feel they can talk to. This affects kids. God love the kids that go through with abortion and tell no one. It’s not good enough.

12-05-2018 10:34PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

i was going to vote yes for abortion cos all my friends are voting yes
but then i seen the video " a silent scream"
it's an x-ray view of an abortion
when dr goldstein attacks the baby with his silver implements the baby tries to retreat in the womb to a safe corner
but dr goldstein gets the baby
what a shame

you can see the baby screaming but it's silent

Bit hard to scream when there is no air, you do realise the womb does not contain air right?

Sofiztikated · 12-05-2018 10:34PM

conorhal wrote: »

To what? Kindly force her to have an abortion?

It seems to me that the time away from them and reflect, cemented her decision to choose in favor of her baby.

Not to force her to have an abortion, to support her in a hard decision.

Not everyone, when faced with an unexpected pregnancy will go "Jaysis, I'll get an abortion, on the way to the shops" but those that decide they don't want to be pregnant, they'll find a way.

Let's be grownup, and keep them safe.

macgowan89 · 12-05-2018 10:37PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Bit hard to scream when there is no air, you do realise the womb does not contain air right?

thats why it's called the silent scream
have you seen the video
you can see dr goldstein's implements entering the womb and the baby literally tries to kick it away and crawl upto the top of the womb
but dr goldstein always gets his pound of flesh

<Snip>

Martina1991 · 12-05-2018 10:39PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

you can see the baby screaming but it's silent

You should take a walk through a delivery ward.

Plenty of non silent screams.

Pregnancy and child birth is not a trivial matter.

Zaph · 12-05-2018 10:41PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

i was going to vote yes for abortion cos all my friends are voting yes
but then i seen the video " a silent scream"
it's an x-ray view of an abortion
when dr goldstein attacks the baby with his silver implements the baby tries to retreat in the womb to a safe corner
but dr goldstein gets the baby
what a shame

you can see the baby screaming but it's silent

No you weren't, but that's OK, you're entitled to your opinion and you have a vote to express it with, the same as everyone else. But drop the "I was going to vote yes" bull and at least have the courage of your convictions to admit which side you support without trying to fake a Pauline conversion.

Sofiztikated · 12-05-2018 10:42PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

thats why it's called the silent scream
have you seen the video
you can see dr goldstein's implements entering the womb and the baby literally tries to kick it away and crawl upto the top of the womb
but dr goldstein always gets his pound of flesh

i won't post the video here cos graphic

I could post a video of a talking huskey, or a dancing cat. What a video looks like, doesn't always relate to what actually is.

FingerDeKat · 12-05-2018 10:46PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

thats why it's called the silent scream
have you seen the video
you can see dr goldstein's implements entering the womb and the baby literally tries to kick it away and crawl upto the top of the womb
but dr goldstein always gets his pound of flesh

<snip>

Hey take some of these. have 5 spare .....

12-05-2018 10:48PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

thats why it's called the silent scream
have you seen the video
you can see dr goldstein's implements entering the womb and the baby literally tries to kick it away and crawl upto the top of the womb
but dr goldstein always gets his pound of flesh

i won't post the video here cos graphic

Really, your forgetting that as a catholic country a lot of us were shown it in school by the religious orders running them.

that its been shown to be a poorly produced piece propaganda by most of the medical profession in the US.

Conspiracy theories thread is two doors down.

goat2 · 12-05-2018 10:49PM

What about those that already have had abortion, how do they feel years later, when they have a family, I don't know

Wrongway1985 · 12-05-2018 10:50PM

macgowan89 wrote: »

thats why it's called the silent scream
have you seen the video

It's clearly called the silent scream as that is what the uploader wanted to call it.

The video description shows the motivation behind the upload also.

Zaph · 12-05-2018 10:51PM

goat2 wrote: »

What about those that already have had abortion, how do they feel years later, when they have a family, I don't know

I would imagine there's no one size fits all answer to that question.

FingerDeKat · 12-05-2018 10:52PM

goat2 wrote: »

What about those that already have had abortion, how do they feel years later, when they have a family, I don't know

I'm still in contact with an ex gf who is happily married with 2 kids. We travelled to the UK for it.For us it's a non issue.

12-05-2018 10:52PM

goat2 wrote: »

What about those that already have had abortion, how do they feel years later, when they have a family, I don't know

Plenty feel fine and happy their still there for their families. You should read the thread they've already said so.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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