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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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Comments

  • #5282
    BarleySweets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 198 ✭✭BarleySweets


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You messed up by slating every care facility in the country and insulting Carers and the families of patients including me and I pulled you on it and you don’t like it. Tough.
    My solution to parents conceiving another child that they can’t afford into a life of poverty and neglect is to help them find a way to stop conceiving.
    You prefer to encourage a woman to keep conceiving on the grounds that she can end multiple pregnancies at will and you will maintain I’m sure that this will have no long term either physical or emotional affect in her.
    Sure.

    What if she’s pregnant on the date of her splinter65-sanctioned sterilisation? Do you give her an abortion then sterilise her, or do you force her to have another poverty kid? Then sterilise her after she gives birth?


  • #5283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    100,000 lives have been saved because of the 8th Amendment. There'll be 100,000 murders in the next 20 years when it's gone. Hitler would love that

    You seem to be ignoring the fact that only the retain side have links to neo Nazi orgainisations.


  • #5284
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You messed up by slating every care facility in the country and insulting Carers and the families of patients including me and I pulled you on it and you don’t like it. Tough.
    My solution to parents conceiving another child that they can’t afford into a life of poverty and neglect is to help them find a way to stop conceiving.
    You prefer to encourage a woman to keep conceiving on the grounds that she can end multiple pregnancies at will and you will maintain I’m sure that this will have no long term either physical or emotional affect in her.
    Sure.

    Read what January posted.

    You are talking through your hoop.

    And noone is encouraging conceiving and termination on a regular basis, way to completely misrepresent what we are saying.


  • #5285
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    You seem to be ignoring the fact that only the retain side have links to neo Nazi orgainisations.

    With some of the posts I've seen on here I'm actually surprised nobody has yet come on to say they feel abortion should be banned for white babies only.

    There's at least a few of 'em thinking it


  • #5286
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    conorhal wrote: »
    Quiet genocide is acceptable genocide. If nobody looks, or at least looks away, then like the Armenian genocide, we can all conveniently pretend it didn't happen.

    A woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy is exactly like the ~Armenian genocide, yeah. :rolleyes:

    Would you ever leave the blaydin house and get a clue about life.


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  • #5287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    conorhal wrote: »
    Quiet genocide is acceptable genocide. If nobody looks, or at least looks away, then like the Armenian genocide, we can all conveniently pretend it didn't happen.

    No there is historical evidence of the Armenian genocide and only the perpetrators pretend it didn’t happen.


  • #5288
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You messed up by slating every care facility in the country and insulting Carers and the families of patients including me and I pulled you on it and you don’t like it. Tough.
    My solution to parents conceiving another child that they can’t afford into a life of poverty and neglect is to help them find a way to stop conceiving.
    You prefer to encourage a woman to keep conceiving on the grounds that she can end multiple pregnancies at will and you will maintain I’m sure that this will have no long term either physical or emotional affect in her.
    Sure.
    I would call that another bald faced lie at no point has DubInMeath said all care facilities are abusing their charges.


  • #5289
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,383 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    http://donate.togetherforyes.ie

    Looks like donation site for together for yes is down again...


  • #5290
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭conorhal


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    No there is historical evidence of the Armenian genocide and only the perpetrators pretend it didn’t happen.


    A bit like abortion so!


  • #5291
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    conorhal wrote: »
    A bit like abortion so!

    Who here is trying to pretend abortion doesn't happen?


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  • #5292
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭conorhal


    BarleySweets wrote: »
    Oh, you’re a Nazi?


    Na, I'm not the one eugenically exterminating babies, but please expand!


  • #5293
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You messed up by slating every care facility in the country and insulting Carers and the families of patients including me and I pulled you on it and you don’t like it. Tough.

    Where did I say this ‘every facility’ or insulted careers, link to the actual post where I said this, or admit your lies.
    My solution to parents conceiving another child that they can’t afford into a life of poverty and neglect is to help them find a way to stop conceiving.
    You prefer to encourage a woman to keep conceiving on the grounds that she can end multiple pregnancies at will and you will maintain I’m sure that this will have no long term either physical or emotional affect in her.
    Sure.

    Nice deflection attempt but in no way am I saying this.
    What you are actually saying is people who can't afford kids should be sterilised, in your opinion.


  • #5294
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    conorhal wrote: »
    A bit like abortion so!

    You say you have friends who have had abortions. Are they murderers?


  • #5295
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    100,000 lives have been saved because of the 8th Amendment. There'll be 100,000 murders in the next 20 years when it's gone. Hitler would love that

    Hitler was pro life. It was illegal to have an abortion there. Yes, there were some minorities forced to have abortions but here's the thing, neither the women forced to terminate or the ones forced to carry a pregnancy to term had a choice.
    He was extremely anti choice and his views on that issue were probably closer to a pro life advocate. They certainly have no resemblance to the views held by pro choice people.


  • #5296
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭conorhal


    bootpaws wrote: »
    Who here is trying to pretend abortion doesn't happen?


    The people using euphemism's like 'choice' and 'compassion'. You should really ask yourself why so few Yes posters on poles around town (if any) actually use the word abortion. Why is that do you think?
    Why won't a single poster advocating for abortion use the word abortion?


  • #5297
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,623 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    100,000 lives have been saved because of the 8th Amendment. There'll be 100,000 murders in the next 20 years when it's gone. Hitler would love that

    Your trolling this thread will no longer be tolerated. Do not post in it again.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #5298
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    100,000 lives have been saved because of the 8th Amendment. There'll be 100,000 murders in the next 20 years when it's gone. Hitler would love that

    You don’t understand what murder is.


  • #5299
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    conorhal wrote: »
    A bit like abortion so!

    Nice try but it’s no where an equivalent as you well know.


  • #5300
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    bootpaws wrote: »
    Who here is trying to pretend abortion doesn't happen?

    Going by their posters, I'd have to say groups campaigning for a No vote.


  • #5301
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wexie wrote: »
    With some of the posts I've seen on here I'm actually surprised nobody has yet come on to say they feel abortion should be banned for white babies only.

    There's at least a few of 'em thinking it

    There maybe yet.


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  • #5302
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    conorhal wrote: »
    The people using euphemism's like 'choice' and 'compassion'. You should really ask yourself why so few Yes posters on poles (if any) actually use the word abortion. Why is that do you think?

    "Choice" is not a euphemism, it's exactly the correct word when offering someone more than one option, regardless of context.

    What I'm actually asking myself right now is why you never answered my reply to you further back in the thread.

    Here, I'll quote it for your convenience:
    bootpaws wrote: »
    But, see, the thing is, and you'll have to bear with me here because I understand that on some level, you really do think Voting No is probably the right thing.

    You cannot force a child on somebody. You cannot force 9 months of sickness, discomfort, pain, missed work, missed college, and a painful labour and birthing process, and eventually, a child who she will need to be responsible for forever. You just can't do that, Conorhal. You just can't force that on somebody.

    If the condom broke, if the birth control failed, if the woman was raped, if the baby is wanted but slowly dying inside the womb, and on and on and on...abortion will be necessary. And it will happen.

    We are not being asked "do you think abortion is a wonderful procedure?" Because none of us do.

    We are being asked "Will we as a country step up to the plate and provide these services for the women who need them? The women who access them anyway, be it via traveling to England or via dangerous methods at home, or via abortion pills bought online?"

    If you think the idea of a woman taking two pills and having what, for all intents and purposes, just looks like a heavy period, is an unfortunate mental image, imagine for a moment the results of a woman forcing a coat hanger inside herself.

    Imagine a woman taking a bath so hot it's turning her skin red, imagine a woman drinking alone to the point of blacking out. A woman throwing herself down the stairs, drinking bleach, pouring chemicals inside herself in every act of desperation in the book.

    The reality is it's happening. It's always happened.

    A man walking up to another man and stabbing him in the heart is murder. Provoked or not, he could have walked away and ignored that other man. He could have called the police if he felt threatened, he could have gotten a restraining order, he could've distanced himself physically.

    Pregnant women have no such freedom when they don't want to be pregnant. It's there, it's inside them, the size of a grain of rice, and by virtue of the 8th amendment, they've just lost every right they ever had to choose what becomes of them. Under the 8th amendment it's just not their body anymore.

    A termination at 12 weeks isn't murder. It's a decision that affects only the woman who has decided to do it. If she doesn't want to be pregnant she doesn't have another option. She can't just walk away. She can't call the guards. She can't physically distance herself.

    She knows what's right for her, and be it with two pills prescribed by her doctor or by forcing objects or chemicals inside of herself at risk to her own life, she will end that pregnancy.

    Of those two options, what would you rather she do?


  • #5303
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    conorhal wrote: »
    The people using euphemism's like 'choice' and 'compassion'. You should really ask yourself why so few Yes posters on poles around town (if any) actually use the word abortion. Why is that do you think?
    Why won't a single poster advocating for abortion use the word abortion?

    Why won't you say whether your friends who've had abortions are 'murderers'? You've already been asked twice.


  • #5304
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    BarleySweets wrote: »
    But that’s not a central issue of this referendum at all. Where’d you get that idea? I guess you can make up your own central issues but that’s your choice and has no basis in reality beyond the breath you waste saying it. So there’s one thing you’re wrong about, I guess.

    A fetus has no rights and is not considered a person until it is born. Legally or medically. That’s the fact of the matter, any other opinion or claim is literally equivalent to somebody claiming that up is down, or black is white, or the sky is red, or the moon is made of cheese.

    a foetus has rights here. That's what the 8th says.

    And the central issue of abortion is whether it's killing a baby. That's what all the posters here say. That abortion is wrong because you're killing a human being. That the fetus has a right to life.

    Now if they can prove that to me, I'll switch from pro choice to pro life. Seriously I would. I would not support the killing of a baby in any circumstance. We all agree that killing a baby is wrong. But no-one has shown me that there's an equivalence between an embryo and a baby.


  • #5305
    BarleySweets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 198 ✭✭BarleySweets


    bootpaws wrote: »
    "Choice" is not a euphemism, it's exactly the correct word when offering someone more than one option, regardless of context.

    What I'm actually asking myself right now is why you never answered my reply to you further back in the thread.

    Here, I'll quote it for your convenience:

    Oh bootpaws, don’t reply to him, he’s not worth your time or effort. He’s an alt-righter that’s just trolling on here.


  • #5306
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,213 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    January wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44076159

    Wonder why she's even bringing up the fact that over a 1,000 women who weren't 'white Irish' travelled to the UK... why are they not counting them?

    cause they're big aul racists, Father.

    These women are not good catholic Irish convent educated girls, their morals are therefore suspect :rolleyes:

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #5307
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭conorhal


    bootpaws wrote: »
    "Choice" is not a euphemism, it's exactly the correct word when offering someone more than one option, regardless of context.

    What I'm actually asking myself right now is why you never answered my reply to you further back in the thread.

    Here, I'll quote it for your convenience:


    Do I wan't vanilla or chocolate ice-cream? is a choice. But I can see why you'd try to reduce life or death to vanilla or chocolate, just like the disingenuous pro-abortion campaign. It appeals to a consumerist society in which 'choice' is just vanilla or chocolate like any other consumer choice (and don't think about what that choice entails).


  • #5308
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    conorhal wrote: »
    Uhhhh from people that prove themselves trustworthy by their actions? How do you you come to find people trustworthy?

    So women can't be assumed to be trustworthy enough to make their own healthcare decisions but they are trustworthy enough to take care of a baby. Alrighty-then!


  • #5309
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    BarleySweets wrote: »
    Oh bootpaws, don’t reply to him, he’s not worth your time or effort. He’s an alt-righter that’s just trolling on here.

    I thought that about a poster way back, that everything out of his mouth was so ignorant and tone deaf that he HAD to be trolling. Turns out the replies he got made him rethink and he came back a day or two later to say he was now leaning to vote yes due to the issues pointed out to him here with the 8th.

    So now I try to see every aggressive No voter in this thread as a potential Yes if the reality of the situation is laid out before them.

    Call me naive, but I can't help myself sometimes!

    In this case, you're probably right though. Still. It passes the time between shifts!


  • #5310
    relax carry on
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    conorhal wrote: »
    Na, I'm not the one eugenically exterminating babies, but please expand!

    Jesus. Is there any end in sight to this bottom of the barrel stuff?


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  • #5311
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭conorhal


    iguana wrote: »
    So women can't be assumed to be trustworthy enough to make their own healthcare decisions but they are trustworthy enough to take care of a baby. Alrighty-then!




    Healthcare is a euphemism in 97% of abortions, just as 'choice' or 'compassion' is a euphemism.


This discussion has been closed.
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