Smear Test Scandal

iamwhoiam · 09-05-2018 09:05AM

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/their-smiling-faces-are-the-best-medicine-words-of-tragic-irene-live-on-36882673.html

Another very sad casualty of this awful mess . These are people , wives , mothers , sisters , daughters . How dare the HSE compromise their lives for a cheaper option

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich · 10-05-2018 08:42AM

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-should-not-even-have-had-cancer-and-now-im-dying-says-motheroffive-after-incorrect-smear-test-36892605.html

Did anyone hear the interview with Emma on RTE this morning? Devastating. Heads need to roll for this, but this is Ireland, the land of no accountability.

Auguste Comte · 10-05-2018 08:45AM

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-should-not-even-have-had-cancer-and-now-im-dying-says-motheroffive-after-incorrect-smear-test-36892605.html

Did anyone hear the interview with Emma on RTE this morning? Devastating. Heads need to roll for this, but this is Ireland, the land of no accountability.

I'm still sobbing, that poor woman and her poor kids.

iamwhoiam · 10-05-2018 08:54AM

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-should-not-even-have-had-cancer-and-now-im-dying-says-motheroffive-after-incorrect-smear-test-36892605.html

Did anyone hear the interview with Emma on RTE this morning? Devastating. Heads need to roll for this, but this is Ireland, the land of no accountability.

My heart is broken for these women . No words can convey how I feel so hurt for them

KevIRL · 10-05-2018 09:13AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2018/0510/961465-emma-mhic-mhathuna/

Interview now on the website.

Lollipops23 · 10-05-2018 09:40AM

I'm so, so frightened that there are many more caught up in this atrocity.

ChikiChiki · 10-05-2018 11:03AM

Tony O'Brien has one hell of a brass neck. He alone epitomises everything that is wrong with Irish public life.

As for the Government, what the hell is stopping them from sacking him?

iamwhoiam · 10-05-2018 11:05AM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Tony O'Brien has one hell of a brass neck. He alone epitomises everything that is wrong with Irish public life.

Pompous git .

Graces7 · 10-05-2018 01:26PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My heart is broken for these women . No words can convey how I feel so hurt for them

There are no words; only tears and prayers.

Amirani · 10-05-2018 02:08PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Tony O'Brien has one hell of a brass neck. He alone epitomises everything that is wrong with Irish public life.

As for the Government, what the hell is stopping them from sacking him?

Why exactly?

These stories are as painful for me to read as you, but creating a witch-hunt against an individual that may or may not have been involved in this scandal is completely counter-productive and why things like this continue to happen. The baying mob goes after an individual or 2 and once they're removed they're satisfied.

In reality, what needs to be done is a proper investigation into why this happened and what needs to happen to stop it in future. If the Government goes and sacks O'Brien now (which would include paying him off), he just leaves and takes up the job waiting for him in the US. How does that solve anything?

jmayo · 10-05-2018 02:56PM

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-should-not-even-have-had-cancer-and-now-im-dying-says-motheroffive-after-incorrect-smear-test-36892605.html

Did anyone hear the interview with Emma on RTE this morning? Devastating. Heads need to roll for this, but this is Ireland, the land of no accountability.

That has to be one of the most powerful pieces of radio I have heard in a very long time.

The fact that this mess, the latest in a long line of messes involving the HSE, is resulting in the unnecessary pain, suffering and deaths of women is shocking.

The HSE has to be aboloished, replaced with a leaner more accountable system and any fooker from a union or a representative body that tries to stop it should be dragged to the grave of every single unnecessary HSE victim to explain to their loved ones why they don't have a spouse, partner, mother, sister, brother, father.

The most toxic organisation in this country is the very one people rely on most in their greatest hour of need.

Conall Cernach · 10-05-2018 03:00PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Tony O'Brien has one hell of a brass neck. He alone epitomises everything that is wrong with Irish public life.

As for the Government, what the hell is stopping them from sacking him?

Could it be because Leo Varadkar was Minister for Health while this was going on?

Amirani · 10-05-2018 03:02PM

jmayo wrote: »

The HSE has to be aboloished, replaced with a leaner more accountable system and any fooker from a union or a representative body that tries to stop it should be dragged to the grave of every single unnecessary HSE victim to explain to their loved ones why they don't have a spouse, partner, mother, sister, brother, father.

The most toxic organisation in this country is the very one people rely on most in their greatest hour of need.

Agreed - the HSE is a mess and has been a mess since its creation. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that is in no way conducive to effective decision making or policy implementation.

And it is exactly because of this that the witch-hunt against O'Brien is so problematic. I'm no fan of his, but removing him from his position does absolutely nothing to resolve the big elephant in the room problem that is the HSE. In fact, it makes it even less likely that meaningful reform takes place, because the mob (and I include the Sinn Fein parliamentary party in this) will be contented when they get their scapegoat.

erica74 · 10-05-2018 03:06PM

Listening to Emma would actually destroy you. How many more women are going to emerge from this with the news that they're dying?

Does anyone know if there's any category of women who are most at risk or should be most concerned? Presumably any women who have had a smear every 3 years and have always had a negative result shouldn't be worried?

Amirani · 10-05-2018 03:06PM

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Could it be because Leo Varadkar was Minister for Health while this was going on?

I don't think you appreciate the way the HSE and the Department of Health interact (or rather, don't interact) on these things. The Minister for Health would have no knowledge of these sorts of issues.

For what it's worth; mandatory open disclosure, which is the major issue here was eventually opposed by all the major political parties.

Amirani · 10-05-2018 03:11PM

erica74 wrote: »

Listening to Emma would actually destroy you. How many more women are going to emerge from this with the news that they're dying?

Does anyone know if there's any category of women who are most at risk or should be most concerned? Presumably any women who have had a smear every 3 years and have always had a negative result shouldn't be worried?

If you've had consistent negative results every 3 years then you shouldn't be worried. The proportion of women who have had a false negative diagnosis (and have been informed or otherwise) is still a tiny proportion of the population. You shouldn't be any more worried in light of this scandal; the likelihood of your screening result being accurate is still the same as it was previously - very likely.

jmayo · 10-05-2018 03:17PM

Amirani wrote: »

Agreed - the HSE is a mess and has been a mess since its creation. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that is in no way conducive to effective decision making or policy implementation.

And it is exactly because of this that the witch-hunt against O'Brien is so problematic. I'm no fan of his, but removing him from his position does absolutely nothing to resolve the big elephant in the room problem that is the HSE. In fact, it makes it even less likely that meaningful reform takes place, because the mob (and I include the Sinn Fein parliamentary party in this) will be contented when they get their scapegoat.

No I disagree.
His arrogance and the fact it appears he now knew in AMrch/April 2016 of the cervical tests audit and a supposed plan to inform the women.

If I not mistaken he assumed the women concerned were being informed.

Ever hear a famous Harry Truman saying "The buck stops here."

Well no one in our HSE or Dept of Health has ever heard of it either so don't feel too bad if you haven't.

But I don't think he should be the only one fired for this.

There should be a line of managers fired for this criminal negligence.

BTW at this stage I think if Fine Gael do not fire him it will ultimately bring the government down.
There is no way fianna fail can be seen to either back him or sit on the fence.

erica74 · 10-05-2018 03:20PM

Amirani wrote: »

If you've had consistent negative results every 3 years then you shouldn't be worried. The proportion of women who have had a false negative diagnosis (and have been informed or otherwise) is still a tiny proportion of the population. You shouldn't be any more worried in light of this scandal; the likelihood of your screening result being accurate is still the same as it was previously - very likely.

Thanks. Between my friends and I, we've all been fortunate to always have had negative results but the paranoia re-emerges everytime another woman comes forward.

I dread to think how many more women are out there.

tretorn · 10-05-2018 03:29PM

If Tony O Brien is fired he can bring a constructive dismissal case and he will win.

What are you proposing he be fired for. Some women were told the didnt have cancer because a lab in the States missed cancer cells. This is the reason for MsPhelan having terminal cancer, people are making it sound like the HSE infected her.
Once MsPhelans cancer was diagnosed a treatment plan was put in place.
Whats the alternative to cervicalcheck which is free. The only way to make sure tests arent misread is not to provide a screening service at all.
Is that what people want.

JMNolan · 10-05-2018 03:34PM

tretorn wrote: »

If Tony O Brien is fired he can bring a constructive dismissal case and he will win.

Literally this sentence shows how little you know about constructive dismissal.

Amirani · 10-05-2018 03:36PM

jmayo wrote: »

Ever hear a famous Harry Truman saying "The buck stops here."

That's outdated and doesn't really reflect the nature of large modern organisations. Executives just can't have full oversight of every facet of an organisation.

The Truman quote is a meaningless soundbyte. There were scandals under his presidency that he didn't resign for.

goat2 · 10-05-2018 03:54PM

A mother of five now , this is terrible, hope they can help her, but I believe she has been told it is terminal, her young children need her so bad, Holy Communions, Confirmations, Christmases, Birthdays, she is so needed

jmayo · 10-05-2018 03:59PM

Amirani wrote: »

That's outdated and doesn't really reflect the nature of large modern organisations. Executives just can't have full oversight of every facet of an organisation.

The Truman quote is a meaningless soundbyte. There were scandals under his presidency that he didn't resign for.

So basically you subscribe to the ethos no one is ever responsible.

Do you work in HSE or Dept of Health by any chance?

Yes indeed large organisations have become bureaucratic messes with multi layered management structures that often obfuscate who is or isn't directly responsible.

But remind us again how the head of the VW group had to fall on his sword due to the emission debacle.
And yes he is now facing criminal charges in the US.

The founder and CEO of Uber was forced out.
The head of Equifax was forced out because of major data breach in US.
Now he was hardly the guy encrypting and locking down the data himself now was he. :rolleyes:

The head of Wells Fargho bank stepped down after it was found some of the employees had been playing hard and fast.
Fecking hell better now tell any of our banks, especially the perennial gangsters in AIB.

The head of BP got the chop after the poor handling of the BP oil spill in 2010.
Now no one was blaming him for blowing up a well or anything but he still got the axe.

The thing is AFAIK in all of the above organisational scandals there were no kids left without mothers.

goat2 · 10-05-2018 03:59PM

https://evoke.ie/2018/05/10/news/irish-news/smear-test-blunder

This is a very heart breaking piece about her, I thought the government had said that everyone had been told last week, now this, where is it going to end, how many more

ChikiChiki · 10-05-2018 04:20PM

Few HSE apologists hanging around this thread. The gate of Leinster house would need to be rocking before making someone to be held accountable is even considered.

jmayo · 10-05-2018 04:48PM

Why tony o'brien and a lot more have to go.

The briefing memo he saw in Mar 2016 although he claims the first he knew was the Vichy Phelan case being in the news before she went into high court.

Note the underlined red portions.
They actually were outlining the possibilities of negative media coverage.

jmayo · 10-05-2018 04:51PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Few HSE apologists hanging around this thread. The gate of Leinster house would need to be rocking before making someone to be held accountable is even considered.

The exact line about how he can't be fired lest there be an unfair dismissals claims is being pedaled across discussion forums.

JMNolan · 10-05-2018 04:53PM

This memo should further cement Tony O Brien's resolve! No budging him now, he might even stay on longer!

10-05-2018 05:24PM

He probably does have to go at this stage, but the politicing by SF is disgusting using the terminally ill woman to point score.

Amirani · 10-05-2018 05:28PM

Chief Medical Officer tells PAC that the memo relates to the 'known phenomenon' that uptake of screening programmes drops when there is negative media coverage that damages their reputation.

This is likely already the case because of general public's misunderstanding of what's going on.

Smear Test Scandal

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