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Nimbys and serial objectors

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Comments

  • #52
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    It's a real case of...

    Run with the hare and hunt with the hound!


  • #53
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    There is a planning application near me which is put in by a person who objected to a similar development opposite himself a few years ago. Hippocracy springs to mind.

    You should object yourself, just for the craic. Come up with the worst reason going and run with it.


  • #54
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    CatInABox wrote: »
    You should object yourself, just for the craic. Come up with the worst reason going and run with it.

    I have to live here. It is unlikely to be granted anyway because a decision by ABP re another planning matter, which was granted with a condition that would rule this one out - unless the ground rules have changed.


  • #55
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Last Stop wrote: »
    Why are you entitled to so many appeals to an application??
    To appeal to ABP, you need to have made a submission on the original planning application.
    This means that if you go to ABP you have made in effect 2 appeals to the decision.
    Why should you be entitled to do this and go even further to the High Court Supreme Court and even Eurpoean Court of Justice?
    If you don't agree with something that's fine but if the experts in both the council and the independent ABP dismiss your appeal then that should be the end of it.
    Going to the courts is akin to throwing the toys out of the pram.

    Whats worrying is that because of the ability of objectors to substantially delay projects, the government are making more and more projects except from the normal planning process. Instead of fixing the problem (i.e. the book stops at ABP), they are bypassing the system.

    On a similar note, I know of a case of a large factory where a neighbour has objected to every single application over the past 20 years bar one (the company in question reckon he was on holidays for the other one). This company now plan any projects timescale to allow for these objections. Its madness.

    And they're not even bypassing it efficiently. Any development of over 100 housing units now goes straight to ABP but the planners in the council still have to do all of the paper work and attend the meetings but they now don't get paid for it. The fee goes straight to ABP. So effectively already-stretched planning local authorities will have a cut in funding which will result in a cut in services or an increased subvention from the government


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pigtown wrote: »
    And they're not even bypassing it efficiently. Any development of over 100 housing units now goes straight to ABP but the planners in the council still have to do all of the paper work and attend the meetings but they now don't get paid for it. The fee goes straight to ABP. So effectively already-stretched planning local authorities will have a cut in funding which will result in a cut in services or an increased subvention from the government

    Sounds like a good opportunity to attach planning fees to the development fees for large scale developments. 2 birds......


  • #57
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I don't think I need to link to an article on the Apple data centre

    But it's a stone cold example of what will happen if this is allowed to continue

    We've seen it with the M28, there are objections on the way with the N6 Galway bypass, and plenty of other examples. This cannot continye


  • #58
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    marno21 wrote: »
    I don't think I need to link to an article on the Apple data centre

    But it's a stone cold example of what will happen if this is allowed to continue

    We've seen it with the M28, there are objections on the way with the N6 Galway bypass, and plenty of other examples. This cannot continye

    It's absolutely ridiculous, and I support the right to object to proposals. Either the system needs reforming so that stuff like this can't happen, or it needs significant investment so that the current process moves faster.


  • #59
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    the apple centre is probably a poor example, apple offered no proposals regarding generating their own power on site rather they just wanted to drain the national grid and have the tax payer pick up the tab for the fines that we'd be getting for not hitting our climate change targets, and the upgrades to the grid that would be required to support this type of development in parts of the country where grid infrastructure is poor. We'd end up paying out millions for a few dozen jobs.


  • #60
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,510 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    cgcsb wrote: »
    the apple centre is probably a poor example, apple offered no proposals regarding generating their own power on site rather they just wanted to drain the national grid and have the tax payer pick up the tab for the fines that we'd be getting for not hitting our climate change targets, and the upgrades to the grid that would be required to support this type of development in parts of the country where grid infrastructure is poor. We'd end up paying out millions for a few dozen jobs.

    Apple were not rejected due to power issues, they pulled out due to planning delays around appeals. As CIAB said "it needs significant investment so that the current process moves faster."

    Fine if they want to deny based on power concerns (which is a different debate) but taking so long a company gives up and builds in another country entirely does not help us.


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  • #61
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This timeline here says it all, especially comparing the progress of Denmark vs Ireland

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0510/961458-apple/


  • #62
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think that once a project gets approved by ABP, then it proceeds. Objections after that can only for compensation, not to stop the project.

    There also needs to be a requirement for objectors to have some legal standing. If I am not local to the project, then I would need to substantiate my basis for objecting.

    If a project goes directly to ABP, then a limited time for objections to any conditions imposed should be allowed, but only to those of standing as above.


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