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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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Comments

  • #3452
    patrickSTARR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭patrickSTARR


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And what are you PERSONALLY going to do, to help and support this woman have this baby that she doesn't want?
    How are you, specifically you (seeing as you are voting to deny her a choice) going to assist her and her child?

    Nothing, she should have the child and care for it, its her duty as a mother. Not kill it before its born?

    Just because she doesn't want it........ what a low reason to terminate a life


  • #3453
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    If they are healthy and the unborn baby is healthy, then Id like to see it punished, yes.

    Its a human life, it should have the chance to live.

    Im not totally against the 8th, medical situations where the womans life is in danger, then yes I would like change to that.

    But I cant advocate someone terminating a pregnancy because its not a convenient time in her life or because she wants no more children.

    Its the lesser of two evils for me (the no vote)

    All those "it" remarks there.

    I'm reading that post as Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs.

    Way to dehumanise women there Patrick


  • #3454
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Because it saves the life of the unborn child.

    I donmt believe it is alive. Why should your belief trump mine. And this time start not to refer right back to the ‘life’ I don’t believe in.


  • #3455
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,360 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    doylefe wrote: »
    His concerns are in the realm of outlandish hyperbole.

    Sorry for bringing up an old post but please don't be so naive as to assume that there aren't scumbags that won't take advantage of a vulnerable girl or woman.

    In my antenatal classes before I had my daughter there was an intellectually disabled girl attending the class with her mother. She was clearly in her late teens or early twenties but had the demeanour and conversation of a pre teen. There was plenty of elbow nudging at the start but it was clear as the classes went on that there was no boyfriend/partner and it was very possible she had been taken advantage of by somebody. She was due about a month after me and I regularly wonder about what became of her and her child. She may well have looked like an adult but was clearly still a child in her mind.

    I think it was either in this thread or on the "In her shoes" facebook page that I read a mothers story about her profoundly disabled daughter, she wanted to look at preventing puberty so went to her GP to see what options were available for her daughter but as the 8th amendment ensures every female, no matter how profoundly disabled they are have the right to reproduce, nothing could be done.

    So yes, it's pretty disgusting that you run down a situation that a parent is trying to prevent, no matter how outlandish it seems.


  • #3456
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I'm not being smart but  how do they know if its illegal ?
    Where do they get there numbers from ? .Its a honest question

    Well in Spain for example its dropped since it was introduced in 2010. They obviously don't have official stats from before the introduction, so the work from the number in year 1.


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  • #3457
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,948 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I'm not saying your wrong,
    I'm saying from life experience I seen something which was different, Maybe cause I was younger it seemed more frequent ,
    YES will win there's no doubt, I just hope younger people are educated ,
    Of course women who medically need abortion should have the right to get them no question  but at the same time you don't want it ending up being over used,
    I can't see a problem with people hoping it doesn't tuen out like that ,

    What are we supposed to do about the motivation a person holds for taking a legal action? We can't police how people feel about pregnancy or abortion.
    Your right we can't and that seems to be a big issue for some people voting NO


  • #3458
    patrickSTARR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭patrickSTARR


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    Define healthy. Please, if you want to see a law passed on this, what is healthy?

    And inconvenient isn't quite the right term. Pregnancy and a child is a fairly big, life changing affair. Ask any mother.

    It is a life changing affair, but it doesn't have to be a bad one. Its a huge change yes.

    Healthy, as in physically and mentally fit.


  • #3459
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Nothing, she should have the child and care for it, its her duty as a mother. Not kill it before its born?

    Just because she doesn't want it........ what a low reason to terminate a life

    So, **** ye for getting pregnant, but **** off if you want help?

    Classy.


  • #3460
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    spookwoman wrote: »
    They are out in force today just got a pm from anti choice lot

    I got nothing yet.
    I would have thought that as a Pro Choice child bearing aged woman I'd have made their little heads pop off with anger but obviously not.:pac:


  • #3461
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    It is a life changing affair, but it doesn't have to be a bad one. Its a huge change yes.

    Healthy, as in physically and mentally fit.

    That should be up to the person involved to decide I think, don't you?


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  • #3462
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Nothing, she should have the child and care for it, its her duty as a mother. Not kill it before its born?

    Just because she doesn't want it........ what a low reason to terminate a life

    Nobody "just doesn't want" a baby. That's a ridiculous reduction and simplification of a myriad of truly weighty moral and emotional considerations. Even excluding all medical rationales.

    You are remarkably dismissive of the weight of the decision that a woman faces.


  • #3463
    patrickSTARR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭patrickSTARR


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    All those "it" remarks there.

    I'm reading that post as Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs.

    Way to dehumanise women there Patrick

    I used "It" to refer to the unborn he/she.


  • #3464
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,948 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Evidence to back the assertion please or we will just throw it out as rubbish.[/quote]
    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Evidence to back the assertion please or we will just throw it out as rubbish.[/quote]
    I'm sorry but my younger self never stopped to take notes on it at the time,
    You don't have to take it for gospel but it certainly something I witnessed ,
     As someone else said mentioned we its impossible to police someone's reason's so it won't make a difference


  • #3465
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Nothing, she should have the child and care for it, its her duty as a mother. Not kill it before its born?

    Just because she doesn't want it........ what a low reason to terminate a life

    No it is not her duty. Women are not just child bearing vessels who should be tied to the kitchen sink for their whole lives just to keep you and your morals happy.

    It is in neither the woman nor baby's best interests to force her to have a child she doesn't want.
    LoveBoth, yeah right. More like "LoveControlling" or "LoveJudging".


  • #3466
    patrickSTARR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭patrickSTARR


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That should be up to the person involved to decide I think, don't you?

    Not at the expense killing the baby.


  • #3467
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    If they are healthy and the unborn baby is healthy, then Id like to see it punished, yes.

    Its a human life, it should have the chance to live.

    Im not totally against the 8th, medical situations where the womans life is in danger, then yes I would like change to that.

    But I cant advocate someone terminating a pregnancy because its not a convenient time in her life or because she wants no more children.

    Its the lesser of two evils for me (the no vote)

    How would you punish it?

    If a family member came to you and said she'd taken the pills unbeknownst to you and was suffering from complications from them would you turn her in? Drive her to the hospital and call the guards on the way?


  • #3468
    Moiratat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭Moiratat


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Not at the expense killing the baby.

    So am I a killer then?


  • #3469
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    I used "It" to refer to the unborn he/she.
    Originally Posted by patrickSTARR View Post
    If they are healthy and the unborn baby is healthy, then Id like to see it punished, yes.

    ... it puts the lotion in the basket.......!


  • #3470
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,948 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I'm not being smart but  how do they know if its illegal ?
    Where do they get there numbers from ? .Its a honest question

    Well in Spain for example its dropped since it was introduced in 2010. They obviously don't have official stats from before the introduction, so the work from the number in year 1.
    So basically there is no evidence that the number of abortions being had of people in a country  fell when introduced ,
     Just evidence that the peak year when introduced is the first year ?
    Is that correct ?
    I'm not having a go just asking ?


  • #3471
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Not at the expense killing the baby.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


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  • #3472
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #3473
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Not at the expense killing the baby.

    I believe you are confused. Nobody is talking about killing any babies.


  • #3474
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Not at the expense killing the baby.

    Unless you are going to personally help and support this woman, for the 18+ years it will take to raise the child she doesn't want, I'm genuinely baffled as to why you think you get to have an opinion on such a serious lifechanging event in a woman's life.
    I'm honestly stumped.

    Why do you think you know what's good for me better than I do? How would you feel if I tried to make decisions about your life on your behalf?

    Also, just reminding you. You aren't saving lives. And abortion is already in Ireland. So your vote will do nada to change anything.


  • #3475
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,106 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Not at the expense killing the baby.
    You keep using this word, "baby" but it doesn't mean what you think it means


  • #3476
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Moiratat wrote: »
    So am I a killer then?

    Absolutely not, least not in the mind of anyone with a heart, brain and emotions.


  • #3477
    patrickSTARR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭patrickSTARR


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    No it is not her duty. Women are not just child bearing vessels who should be tied to the kitchen sink for their whole lives just to keep you and your morals happy.

    It is in neither the woman nor baby's best interests to force her to have a child she doesn't want.
    LoveBoth, yeah right. More like "LoveControlling" or "LoveJudging".

    What about your morals...... that the life inside a woman should be just terminated. It should have the right to grow, live and experience life.

    So just because shes unhappy shes pregnant, the child should be aborted? It deserves the chance at life.


  • #3478
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    spookwoman wrote: »
    They are out in force today just got a pm from anti choice lot
    Might be an idea for maybe a post on help for what people can do if they get them

    Are you serious? Are No Repeal folks creating accounts to PM you?

    No honour.


  • #3479
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I got nothing yet.
    I would have thought that as a Pro Choice child bearing aged woman I'd have made their little heads pop off with anger but obviously not.:pac:

    I got one. And i’m Not just of age, i’m Actively pregnant!


  • #3480
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    patrickSTARR wrote: »
    Termination of a pregnancy isn't always for health reasons.

    Sorry have you ever been pregnant? Have you ever read up on the messy details of what the average pregnancy entails?

    Not just the "oh no! I have to pee!" "Oops, I'm emotional watching puppies!" "Man those cravings are so weird!" type of sitcom friendly symptoms.

    Have you ever had to wake up at all hours vomiting, unable to keep anything down? Have you ever suffered dehydration from vomiting so much?

    Have you had to fork out for several packs of panty liners at a time because your body won't stop producing strange discharge?

    Do you ever complain about heartburn now? Try suffering with it near constantly, cause that's fun!

    Ever seen those icky ads where people brushing their teeth spit blood in the sink? Bloody gums are a beautiful side effect you can look forward to.

    What about hemorrhoids? Mad laugh, right? Better get comfortable with those! Nosebleeds, too, actually. But hey, it's no big deal! All for the Greater Good.

    Oh, but there's also yeast infections which are fun on a good day, never mind when you're walking with swollen ankles, migraines, headaches, and all the above.

    Sorry but even if a baby is HUGELY wanted, pregnancy IS itself a health risk. Terminating a pregnancy can be needed for a variety of reasons, but don't you dare act as though these issues (not to mention even more I haven't listed here) are just something to be hand waved.

    I'm sick of people who would lay about moaning about a common cold acting as if pregnancy is a mildly inconvenient event never to be turned down. I'm actually sick of it.

    It's a complicated, difficult, and often painful 9 months when it's something you want. Forcing it upon someone is absolutely disgraceful.


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  • #3481
    patrickSTARR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭patrickSTARR


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You keep using this word, "baby" but it doesn't mean what you think it means

    Just because you says foetus or zygote doesn't mean its not ending a life.


This discussion has been closed.
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