8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

yourdeadwright · 09-05-2018 03:57PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Why is it outlandish?

Its an assumption, yes and a realistic one. I think people in general can be fickle regardless of gender.

Obviously it wont be that blunt, I think given the option some people will be more tempted to have a termination if more available to them.

This in the face of the fact that in countries where abortion is legalised the abortion rates actually decrease?

I'm not being smart but how do they know if its illegal ?
Where do they get there numbers from ? .Its a honest question

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 03:58PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The supreme court recently ruled that right now, with the 8th in place, the unborn are not children and have none of the rights of children in law.

Whether it matters or not, I don't agree with the ruling

PlaneSpeeking · 09-05-2018 03:58PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm sorry but your wrong,
I lived in northern England for a time in my youth and abortion was used like a headache tablet on the surrounding estate ,
When the YES goes through which it will we need educate people so it doesn't end up like that here,

I grew up in Liverpool and you are talking out of your hoop sir.

amcalester · 09-05-2018 03:58PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When the YES goes through which it will we need educate people so it doesn't end up like that here,

I agree with you here, more education is definitely needed but I find it ironic that many people campaigning for a No vote will campaign against the introduction of sex education in schools.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 03:59PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

And more should be done to stop it those pills coming to Ireland, not open the flood gates

What would you propose? should we send those women to prison as per the law, why do you think those women aren't prosecuted as it is?

Actually are there any cases of women taking the pills here who have been prosecuted? I know if the one in NI but here?

AtomicHorror · 09-05-2018 03:59PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm sorry but your wrong,
I lived in northern England for a time in my youth and abortion was used like a headache tablet on the surrounding estate ,
When the YES goes through which it will we need educate people so it doesn't end up like that here,

Evidence, in the form of hard numbers from a reliable source, would be essential to back up this sort of claim. Otherwise we can simply dismiss it.

....... · 09-05-2018 03:59PM

This post has been deleted.

NuMarvel · 09-05-2018 04:00PM

joe40 wrote: »

I'm coming to the conclusion that this whole written constitution thing has been a millstone around our necks.
In every single social issue divisive referendums were needed. From contraception, divorce, ssm, complex EU treaties that hardly anyone understood, rights of children, the list goes on.
All this nonsense about "not trusting our politician" is bull****. How do other countries manage.
Maybe we should trust our politicians more but at the same time make them more accountable. We elect them.
Referendums are not a good way to make laws on complex issues. How many referendums have been in Britain over the last 20 years ( I only know of one and they ****ed it up)
Just an off topic rant, sorry

Not off topic and definitely not a rant. It's a pretty good summation of the problems with putting complicated issues into a constitution.

And you hit the nail on the head when it comes to politicians. If we don't trust legislators to legislate, then the answer is accountability and to elect better ones. What the No side is suggesting is akin to keeping a bad employee on the payroll and doing his work on top of our own.

Zubeneschamali · 09-05-2018 04:00PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Whether it matters or not, I don't agree with the ruling

It doesn't matter unless you can round up enough people to change the Constitution.

Since the only Constitutional right which the SC ruled that the unborn do have is about to be repealed, good luck with that.

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 04:00PM

amcalester wrote: »

I agree with you here, more education is definitely needed but I find it ironic that many people campaigning for a No vote will campaign against the introduction of sex education in schools.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Not me, it should be mandatory. Kick religion out too.

PlaneSpeeking · 09-05-2018 04:00PM

amcalester wrote: »

I agree with you here, more education is definitely needed but I find it ironic that many people campaigning for a No vote will campaign against the introduction of sex education in schools.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I went to Catholic school and (I kid you not) our sex education was a nun saying "you'll find out all you need when you are wed" - and a free box of Lil-lets which they were vehemently opposed to.

dudara · 09-05-2018 04:01PM

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yourdeadwright · 09-05-2018 04:01PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm sorry but your wrong,
I lived in northern England for a time in my youth and abortion was used like a headache tablet on the surrounding estate ,
When the YES goes through which it will we need educate people so it doesn't end up like that here,

I grew up in Liverpool and you are talking out of your hoop sir.

I'm not talking through my hoop at all , It was very common place,
I'm not saying don't vote YES . I'm saying we need to make sure people are educated when it does go through which it will

gmisk · 09-05-2018 04:01PM

http://donate.togetherforyes.ie/
Now over 46k!

In about 9 hours brilliant stuff!

bootpaws · 09-05-2018 04:01PM

I'm sorry, women will be "tempted"?! By healthcare?!

Terminating a pregnancy isn't like going to the f**ing chipper. No one is sitting there thinking "ah sure I was gonna have it but now I'm mad tempted to go to my Doctor to discuss this serious life changing decision on a whim!"

The absolute audacity of the way some of you people talk about women. I swear to Christ.

eviltwin · 09-05-2018 04:02PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

And more should be done to stop it those pills coming to Ireland, not open the flood gates

The gates have been long removed Patrick. Abortions happen, they happen in secret and silence, in dangerous and desperate situations. Keeping it illegal doesn't stop it, it just moves the procedure to overseas facilities and bathrooms in Ireland. This collective denial that abortion doesn't happen in Ireland has to stop. Nearly 200,000 minimum of our mothers, sisters and daughters have had one. Maybe a few women close to you Patrick, probably at least one woman close to you.

....... · 09-05-2018 04:02PM

This post has been deleted.

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 04:02PM

joe40 wrote: »

All this nonsense about "not trusting our politician" is bull****. How do other countries manage.
Maybe we should trust our politicians more but at the same time make them more accountable. We elect them.

The problem is most politicians in this country show up shake a few hands at funerals, fix a few parking tickets, fill in a pothole or two on the main street all through "quiet words" had in the backrooms of pubs and when noone else is listening, people want to elect these wheeler dealer types to help them out but don't want them to have the responsibility for "real issues"

yourdeadwright · 09-05-2018 04:05PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well then I will ask you, what particular aspect of the research in the lancet article do you disagree with?

I have shown you evidence as to why I hold the view I do.

Your anecdote doesnt cut it in the face of academic research.[/quote]
I'm not saying your wrong,
I'm saying from life experience I seen something which was different, Maybe cause I was younger it seemed more frequent ,
YES will win there's no doubt, I just hope younger people are educated ,
Of course women who medically need abortion should have the right to get them no question but at the same time you don't want it ending up being over used,
I can't see a problem with people hoping it doesn't tuen out like that ,

amcalester · 09-05-2018 04:06PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I went to Catholic school and (I kid you not) our sex education was a nun saying "you'll find out all you need when you are wed" - and a free box of Lil-lets which they were vehemently opposed to.

I went to a catholic school too and that's more than I got.

SusieBlue · 09-05-2018 04:06PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Because it saves the life of the unborn child.

No it doesn't. And the definition of saved is subjective.

"Saved", but born into a life of poverty, or neglect, or severely disabled, or into a home with domestic violence, addiction issues, mental health issues, a life the mother would not choose for her child? is that really a life saved?

You are focusing so hard on the uterus and the baby that you cannot see the woman attached or the outside circumstances.
You are not pro-life, you are pro-birth. Because if you were pro-life you would be considering what kind of potentially awful circumstances these children are born into and trust their mothers that its the right choice.

You can't proudly declare that you are saving lives and keeping abortion out of Ireland when:

a) Abortion always has and always will happen in Ireland, and
b) You don't give a monkeys about the sort of lives these kids will be born into, or the effect that will have on the mother,

You care so much about these zygotes and fetuses but don't give a sh*t about happens once they're actually here.

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 04:06PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

What would you propose? should we send those women to prison as per the law, why do you think those women aren't prosecuted as it is?

Actually are there any cases of women taking the pills here who have been prosecuted? I know if the one in NI but here?

If they are healthy and the unborn baby is healthy, then Id like to see it punished, yes.

Its a human life, it should have the chance to live.

Im not totally against the 8th, medical situations where the womans life is in danger, then yes I would like change to that.

But I cant advocate someone terminating a pregnancy because its not a convenient time in her life or because she wants no more children.

Its the lesser of two evils for me (the no vote)

Sofiztikated · 09-05-2018 04:06PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

If its a healthy mother with a healthy unborn child, then yes.

Terminating a baby because its inconvenient is wrong imo.

I am being asked to vote, I will vote this way. No isn't ideal, but nether is yes. I believe No is the side I just about lean on.

Define healthy. Please, if you want to see a law passed on this, what is healthy?

And inconvenient isn't quite the right term. Pregnancy and a child is a fairly big, life changing affair. Ask any mother.

AtomicHorror · 09-05-2018 04:08PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm not saying your wrong,
I'm saying from life experience I seen something which was different, Maybe cause I was younger it seemed more frequent ,
YES will win there's no doubt, I just hope younger people are educated ,
Of course women who medically need abortion should have the right to get them no question but at the same time you don't want it ending up being over used,
I can't see a problem with people hoping it doesn't tuen out like that ,

What are we supposed to do about the motivation a person holds for taking a legal action? We can't police how people feel about pregnancy or abortion.

Zubeneschamali · 09-05-2018 04:08PM

bootpaws wrote: »

I'm sorry, women will be "tempted"?! By healthcare?!

Yes, you know, when the tiny red dude with the fork jumps on your shoulder and says "Pssst! We should have an appendectomy! All the cool kids are getting them!"

SusieBlue · 09-05-2018 04:08PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

If they are healthy and the unborn baby is healthy, then Id like to see it punished, yes.

Its a human life, it should have the chance to live.

Im not totally against the 8th, medical situations where the womans life is in danger, then yes I would like change to that.

But I cant advocate someone terminating a pregnancy because its not a convenient time in her life or because she wants no more children.

Its the lesser of two evils for me (the no vote)

And what are you PERSONALLY going to do, to help and support this woman have this baby that she doesn't want?
How are you, specifically you (seeing as you are voting to deny her a choice) going to assist her and her child?

Triceratops Ballet · 09-05-2018 04:09PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

If its a healthy mother with a healthy unborn child, then yes.

Terminating a baby because its inconvenient is wrong imo.

I am being asked to vote, I will vote this way. No isn't ideal, but nether is yes. I believe No is the side I just about lean on.

Just to be really clear you are not being asked to vote on abortion, you're being asked to vote on the 8th amendment.

There is proposed legislation that may follow a repeal if its passed by both houses of the oireachtas.
It will in no way be as simple as "the 8th amendment is gone abortions for all" in fact I fully expect the legislation to fail/be amended with FF now coming out against it.
It doesn't change anything for me, a repeal is important regardless of abortion legislation.

patrickSTARR · 09-05-2018 04:09PM

bootpaws wrote: »

I'm sorry, women will be "tempted"?! By healthcare?!

Terminating a pregnancy isn't like going to the f**ing chipper. No one is sitting there thinking "ah sure I was gonna have it but now I'm mad tempted to go to my Doctor to discuss this serious life changing decision on a whim!"

The absolute audacity of the way some of you people talk about women. I swear to Christ.

Termination of a pregnancy isn't always for health reasons.

spookwoman · 09-05-2018 04:09PM

They are out in force today just got a pm from anti choice lot
Might be an idea for maybe a post on help for what people can do if they get them

AtomicHorror · 09-05-2018 04:10PM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

If they are healthy and the unborn baby is healthy, then Id like to see it punished, yes.

Its a human life, it should have the chance to live.

Im not totally against the 8th, medical situations where the womans life is in danger, then yes I would like change to that.

But I cant advocate someone terminating a pregnancy because its not a convenient time in her life or because she wants no more children.

Its the lesser of two evils for me (the no vote)

You don't have to advocate it. You're voting on whether we hand that responsibility and that judgement call to the person most affected and her doctors. That is not advocating anything. If you get pregnant, you get to make your own hard choice and you can live with the consequences.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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