Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

For Forks Sake · 08-05-2018 8:36pm

Hurrache wrote: »

May has said Britain, France and I think Germany, the ticker changed, are staying in deal.

Yep. As per BBC..

UK Prime Minister Theresa May, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron emphasised their "continuing commitment" to the deal in a joint statement.

"We encourage Iran to show restraint in response to the decision by the US; Iran must continue to meet its own obligations under the deal, co-operating fully and in a timely manner."

Hurrache · 08-05-2018 8:38pm

John Kerry with a statement, looking to Europe to bring some sense.

https://twitter.com/JohnKerry/status/993932444859600900?s=09

Hurrache · 08-05-2018 8:39pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Yep. As per BBC..

I was thinking in the lead up to the announcement that there would have been plenty of behind the scenes discussions between all other parties to the agreement on what they're going to do given the eventuality.

Harika · 08-05-2018 8:40pm

I wonder what his win scenario is? Like rouhani stated to stick with the agreement what makes the US look bad. So if rouhani survives the sanctions, nothing changes. If he gets replaced we might see a Hardliner in place who will actually go for the bomb.
I think this is a prime example of wag the dog and virtue signalling to his voters that he sticks to his promise.

pixelburp · 08-05-2018 8:42pm

So North Korea are supposed to ... what? Just trust the US at negotiations, or that any treaty is going to be worth a damn? Again the press is just letting Trump dictate the narrative instead of hammering him on this evidence Iran are breaking the agreement,

pixelburp · 08-05-2018 8:42pm

So North Korea are supposed to ... what? Just trust the US at negotiations, or that any treaty is going to be worth a damn? Again the press is just letting Trump dictate the narrative instead of hammering him on this evidence Iran are breaking the agreement,

Leroy42 · 08-05-2018 8:45pm

Harika wrote: »

I wonder what his win scenario is?

He already told you his win scenario in his speech. He is a POTUS can keeps his promises and he promised to get rid of the deal (lets put aside his promises that Mexico would pay for the wall, that Obamacare would be repealed n replaced on the first day etc).

He didn't know the specifics of this deal before he became POTUS (just like he had no understanding of healthcare) but that doesn't matter.

His win is to deliver, regardless of the actual act. The 'facts' of the outcome of this decision will be decided upon at some stage by Trump and his advisors.

Hurrache · 08-05-2018 8:51pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So North Korea are supposed to ... what?

Walk away.

Christy42 · 08-05-2018 8:52pm

briany wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

Trump responded to a question about how this will make America safer by saying this will make America safer.

I feel convinced he has any idea what this deal was about. This kills the deal though?

Is it worth Iran staying in with the US out? They also have to consider a possible US invasion now as well whether or not they go back to developing weapons. Indeed having weapons might be the only thing that is sure to stop the US from invading.

Iran would still have develop these nukes, and restarting that program in earnest sounds like a mighty good excuse to invade for Trump and his hawks.

Indeed but if they end up thinking that the US would invade anyway then their best hope is to push for it. I don't think that is massively likely, as has been pointed out it would be massively costly for the US. However I can't imagine the possibility of an invasion is not being considered by Iran. They would be foolish not to.

So far it seems they are happy to keep the deal with just the EU which would be great for keeping stability.

Leroy42 · 08-05-2018 8:55pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Walk away.

According to Chinese News, Kim has been in China for meetings with Xi the last two days. China is making sure that they are still very much in charge of the situation.

Hurrache · 08-05-2018 9:08pm

The official joint statement from the British, French and German governments leaving the US in no doubt as to where they stand, the US should not obstruct, and that Iran must continue to receive sanctions relief.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-prime-minister-may-chancellor-merkel-and-president-macron-following-president-trumps-statement-on-iran

Harika · 08-05-2018 9:10pm

https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/993940599576330240?s=20

Well played Iran.

listermint · 08-05-2018 9:12pm

Goes to show where the real world power is now when China and Europe are going around sweeping up the mess.

Adiós USA

Leroy42 · 08-05-2018 9:30pm

listermint wrote: »

Goes to show where the real world power is now when China and Europe are going around sweeping up the mess.

Well, due to the nature of the Global financial system the US still carries a huge amount of power. Whilst the UK etc may want to continue on with the deal US sanctions will mean that any company dealing with Iran will be subject to sanctions from the US. There are few companies that will be willing to risk US sanctions just to trade with Iran.

But it certainly calls into serious question the value of making any deals with the US. Paris, NAFTA, Iran etc, all called off based on nothing more than soundbites it would appear.

The longer term damage is that regardless of Trump being in power or not, it appears that the US has come to the point that policies are only in place for as long as that party stays in power, POTUS speaks only for the time that he is in place. That is not a good basis for any future deals.

This will have little immediate impact though, the reason that Trump acts like he does is because he can. Currently the US is in a very powerful position and like any bully sees rues as for others only.

Cheerful Spring · 08-05-2018 9:44pm

Harika wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/993940599576330240?s=20

Well played Iran.

Western allies will turn on them eventually they always do. Watch the UK and France side with the Americans.

listermint · 08-05-2018 9:48pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, due to the nature of the Global financial system the US still carries a huge amount of power. Whilst the UK etc may want to continue on with the deal US sanctions will mean that any company dealing with Iran will be subject to sanctions from the US. There are few companies that will be willing to risk US sanctions just to trade with Iran.

But it certainly calls into serious question the value of making any deals with the US. Paris, NAFTA, Iran etc, all called off based on nothing more than soundbites it would appear.

The longer term damage is that regardless of Trump being in power or not, it appears that the US has come to the point that policies are only in place for as long as that party stays in power, POTUS speaks only for the time that he is in place. That is not a good basis for any future deals.

This will have little immediate impact though, the reason that Trump acts like he does is because he can. Currently the US is in a very powerful position and like any bully sees rues as for others only.

Yep due the the nature of the global financial system China owns the place.

pixelburp · 08-05-2018 9:52pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Western allies will turn on them eventually they always do. Watch the UK and France side with the Americans.

There's a long sordid history all right, but siding with the US in this case would be caving to the persuasions of a demonstrative liar and incompetent diplomat, and literally non existent evidence. At least with the second Iraq war they had the sense to fabricate some before joining the American decision. Here we have ... ... a man who defies most estimations of political normality.

Water John · 08-05-2018 9:52pm

I think, Spring, you are expressing a desire, and optimistically dressing it up as, likely.
It isn't Europe that's breaking away, it's the USA.

Harika · 08-05-2018 9:53pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Western allies will turn on them eventually they always do. Watch the UK and France side with the Americans.

Likely, but what about Russia and China that will be happy to take their business there?

everlast75 · 08-05-2018 9:53pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So North Korea are supposed to ... what? Just trust the US at negotiations, or that any treaty is going to be worth a damn? Again the press is just letting Trump dictate the narrative instead of hammering him on this evidence Iran are breaking the agreement,

They don't have nukes to trade with. They are taking Trump for a chump and he thinks he will make history.

They won't care about Iran because it wasn't his deal. He will stick with his deal and to him that is what will be important.

The sad part about it is that most people in the US won't give 2 shíts about it if the economy is going okay and they sadly won't get that the benefits they are deriving was from Obama's era.

Facts don't matter to a substantial number of folks in the US. It is about what they feel, stats aren't welcome. It is how he operates; his political advisors save Bolton said it was a bad idea, Maccron and Merkel and the UK said it was factually an error to pull out, but because Obama was for it, ergo it was bad.

If, and i have my doubts, the mid terms don't kneecap him, it will be the justice system that he despises that will.

Tomorrow in West Virginia will be a good test.

08-05-2018 10:05pm

pixelburp wrote: »

You'd think someone with the apparent business acumen of Trump would realise that breaking a contract with other parties on a whim is a pretty idiotic move at the best of times.

It's what him/his companies have always done. He constantly stiffed sub-contractors and dared them to sue him then would pay them far below what they were owed and the expense of suing would have been more.

Mumha · 08-05-2018 10:09pm

Just as a follow up to a discussion last week as to whether it was in fact Donald Trump who got that the Playmate pregnant, rather than Emmett Broidy, and paid $1.6m in hush money. The New Yorker came right out and said it, in today's article, where they go through the evidence as we know it so far.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/theory-playboy-model-had-affair-with-trump-not-broidy.html

everlast75 · 08-05-2018 10:30pm

Just read a story which basically i reckoned above would be his line, ie Iran deal was not my deal but when i make a deal, i stick to it

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/993964774605099008?s=19

robinph · 08-05-2018 10:35pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Just read a story which basically i reckoned above would be his line, ie Iran deal was not my deal but when i make a deal, i stick to it

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/993964774605099008?s=19

What he fails to understand is that he is the president of the United States and the president of the United States made the previous deal. That it is a different person sat in the Oval office is irrelevant.

oscarBravo · 08-05-2018 10:58pm

"When I make promises, I keep them."

That's just the latest in a lifetime of bare-faced lies from a pathological liar who's psychologically incapable of telling the truth.

robinph wrote: »

What he fails to understand is that he is the president of the United States and the president of the United States made the previous deal. That it is a different person sat in the Oval office is irrelevant.

It's not that he fails to understand it; he doesn't care. This could lead to war and millions of deaths: he doesn't care. Literally the only thing that matters here is that he has avenged the mocking he suffered from Obama during the 2011 White House correspondents' dinner.

If you think that nobody could be that petty, you haven't been paying attention. J K Rowling summed Trump up perfectly when she tweeted at him: "You tiny, tiny, tiny little man."

Mumha · 08-05-2018 11:05pm

Breaking News : The Hill are reporting that Stormy Daniels’s attorney Michael Avenatti said on Tuesday that President Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen received $500,000 in the months after the 2016 election from a company run by a Russian oligarch with ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/993959992762994688

This would be explosive if true. Avenatti said that the funding may have been used to reimburse the $130,000 payment Cohen made to Daniels to stay quiet about her alleged affair with Trump.

aloyisious · 08-05-2018 11:06pm

I ddn't think he'd cut off the US's nose to spite the efforts of the previous US administration, Britain, France, Germany, China and Russia to work a deal with Iran, but he's done so.

If there are any military clashes caused in any effort to enforce any new restrictions ordered by him, I expect him to be shunned by other world leaders. I'd favour an international arrest warrant to be issued against him in the case of any military clashes caused on his orders leading to country on country war and have him tried on war crimes in the Hague, should he ever set foot anywhere in Europe. I've done with considering him capable of rational thought.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-deal-is-reached-after-long-negotiations.html

Water John · 08-05-2018 11:07pm

The money was received, AFTER Trump became POTUS in 2017. Just to correct.

Mumha · 08-05-2018 11:16pm

Water John wrote: »

The money was received, AFTER Trump became POTUS in 2017. Just to correct.

"Michael Cohen received $500,000 in the months after the 2016 election "

What's there to correct ?

Water John · 08-05-2018 11:21pm

I accept I read 2016 as the payment time, when they stated it was following the 2016 election.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

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