8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

SusieBlue wrote: »

5 infants were adopted in 2016 as per government statistics. There are 6k children in foster care. If you want to force an extra 4k births to happen, you need to find 4k homes for those kids.
That isn't going to happen, so you'd really be resigning an extra 4k children into the foster care system. That simply isn't good enough and is of no help to a woman who cannot stay pregnant.

I know exactly what the procedure entails. Two pills and a heavy period.

Adoption Rights Alliance Ireland has strongly endorsed repealing the 8th.
http://adoption.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ARA-Position-Paper-on-8th-Amendment.pdf

Good reading, includes "ARA is opposed in the strongest possible terms to the notion that adoption represents a
viable alternative to abortion. We firmly recognise the right of a woman to choose not to
proceed with a pregnancy. "

ASISEEIT wrote: »

I cant find the post but someone posted about adoption. That some women condemned for giving up a child or aborting it but I really dont think that is the case? Is it? There is now open adoption where you have the right to keep contact with your child or change your mind

As for posters being graphic-Im all for them ,as a lot of Yes voters have no real idea of the procedures. However, I would not place them near schools or outside Simon Harris' office. I would not vote for him as he is a useless TD and Minister. Nothing to do with his position on abortion.

Open adoption doesn't exist in Ireland. You're talking about a system that exists elsewhere.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

by their own parents?

This is what you think of your neighbours, your friends, the other parents at your kids sports team, that they are all potential murderers.

Or could it be that you are the one with the problem? That you have the wrong end of the stick altogether on the whole issue?

Nah. I know what this is. Like the rest of the pro lifers. It's an open door to abortion on demanded. 5000 babies a year killed. And if that happens, we move on to euthanasia

Ally Dick wrote: »

Nah. I know what this is. Like the rest of the pro lifers. It's an open door to abortion on demanded. 5000 babies a year killed. And if that happens, we move on to euthanasia

You'll be aware then that that's already happening, and the 8th amendment is actively failing in what it was intended to do, in fact it's costing lives.

gctest50 wrote: »

It just shows what some people are really like

Yes, and really, mankind's a lot worse than what we're seeing here. This is just the decaying religious empire falling, finally, by the wayside, and trying to use their mind-control powers to hang on by their fingernails.

Ally Dick wrote: »

Nah. I know what this is. Like the rest of the pro lifers. It's an open door to abortion on demanded. 5000 babies a year killed. And if that happens, we move on to euthanasia

And pray tell in what country is euthanasia of children on demand a reality?

I hope you realize how much ground you lose for the No side with such bat**** crazy arguments like this.

And during the Gay Marriage votes they said it was the gateway drug to sex with horses and marriage to shoes. And now look, my step-aunt is a duck and my 2nd uncle in my mother’s side is a bicycle.

ASISEEIT wrote: »

As for posters being graphic-Im all for them ,as a lot of Yes voters have no real idea of the procedures.

And at up to twelve weeks, what would those procedures be?
Have you an idea of the short and long term injuries/ damage some very serious that women can suffer in carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth?

If you are, why would you inflict them on unwilling women??

Its very telling that despite Savita's father giving permission for her photo to be used on posters to encourage people to vote Yes, the Yes side didn't resort to such tactics.
I can see why some might see it as manipulative, so they probably were/are better not using her image.
Clearly the No side aren't above using any tactics necessary for shock value and attention.
They Yes side have the integrity and respect that the No side so clearly lack.

Mr Yalagi said Yes campaigners should use his daughter’s image in their efforts to change the State’s abortion laws.

“Of course. It should be shown. The rules in Ireland about abortion should change . . .

“We are happy people in Ireland remember Savita, and remember her when they are talking about abortion. It is very good people in Ireland are remembering how she died.

“I want people to remember her. It is a long time. It is six years, and the law still has not been changed. I am surprised change has not been implemented. I request that all Irish people vote Yes for this law to change.”

Dressing gown wrote: »

Thankfully I haven’t seen the pictures and I’m even more thankful my kids havent. However, if the yes side plastered pictures of the scene of a childbirth it might put a few people off having kids. There’s plenty of blood and gore there too. But it would be completely inappropriate to do so.

Or babies born with anencephaly. But it appears the Yes side actually have respect for people who have been through difficult circumstances.

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its very telling that despite Savita's father giving permission for her photo to be used on posters to encourage people to vote Yes, the Yes side didn't resort to such tactics.
I can see why some might see it as manipulative, so they probably were/are better not using her image.
Clearly the No side aren't above using any tactics necessary for shock value and attention.
They Yes side have the integrity and respect that the No side so clearly lack.

It wouldn't make a difference to the hardheaded No types that float around on here anyway. They have their anti-vaccine style "science" that they pull out every time Savita's death comes up.

"The 8th didn't cause her death it's been proven!"

Except that she specifically requested an abortion which she couldn't receive due to the 8th, and then died because one wasn't performed.

"That was an error on the Doctor's side!"

An error caused by the 8th.

"Doctor Such and Such from the Love Both campaign claims he has laser vision for the exact moment a woman starts dying that allows him to interfere before she actually does die!"

Doctor Such and Such should never leave a patient waiting to die before he can intervene.

"Well I don't trust politicians to legislate in a way that I'm comfortable with!"

But you'll trust Doctors who are instructed to wait until JUSTTTT the right moment of your impending death to know when they can legally interfere and begin to try to save you. Doctors who have already said they can't work within these limitations. Doctors who have already majorly effed up due to these limitations in the past, resulting in the deaths of women and the trauma of others.

There is no argument good enough for them.

Dressing gown wrote: »

Love both? It doesn’t make sense. I have an alternative for you. Love your mother.

I’m from a very big family. My mum only wanted 3 kids. But thanks to our lovely country and the old views on contraception she ended up with loads of kids. She is now in her early 70s. Two of my siblings are still dependent on her and may never be able to earn their own livings for medical reasons. She has worked her ass off her whole life. She doesn’t know how to relax. She is institutionalised to care for everyone else. I wish she could have had a really enjoyable life. I wish she only had the three kids she wanted. Guess what. That means I wouldn’t not have been born. But I’d also be none the wiser. Don’t get me wrong I’m glad I’m here. But I love my mum a lot and I wish her whole life hadn’t and didn’t continue to be such a slog. How’s that for a selfish yes voter? My mum deserved better than than the laws this country and its church imposed on her. I love my mum. Love both is gobbledegook. We can do better than that. Love your mother.

Eh I agree with Yes voters but your mother didn't have to have sex,
How is it the countries fault she had that many kids ?

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Eh I agree with Yes voters but your mother didn't have to have sex,
How is it the countries fault she had that many kids ?

Marital rape was legal in Ireland until 1990. You have no idea what could have happened in these people's lives.

RobertKK wrote: »

It would only advertise hospital incompetence as that was the main finding for her death. The establishment which includes the government have enough of a health crisis going on without having Savita on posters reminding people that the findings of the reports blame the hospital and the staff for not providing the required level of care - the hospital had to pay compensation for not doing their job properly.
Some Yes campaigners and abortion advocates have used her, but they no report which directly attributes her death to the 8th amendment.
So putting her image up on posters would just point to hospital mismanagement..

oh Robert! she asked for an abortion and the response was "this is a Catholic country"

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Firstly, there are probably 5000 abortions a year happening already. 4000 in the UK and an unknown number of illegal abortions here using pills off the internet.

Secondly, yes, it is abortion on demand up to 12 weeks. This is not a secret. It's in the report of the Citizen's Assembly along with the reasons why we should have it.

(Note that some pro-choicers don't like the specific term "Abortion on Demand" for various reasons, but that is what we are talking about, call it "without restriction" or "without specific indication" if you like, they are the same in practice.)

Thirdly, no, these are not babies we are talking about. They are embryos, or at latest, fetuses.

It must be very strange and scary to believe that 150,000 Irish women are murderers walking our streets. Odd that the pro-life side are not at all keen to see them jailed, though.

Pro-lifers would like to change the mindset, not jail women, being vindictive is not how one changes minds.