8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Richard Hillman wrote: »

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Q1. Economic changes. Relationship issues. Doesn't like the sex of the baby. Many reasons.

Q2. I think some are nice and some are not nice.

All of which are a) possible and b) ALREADY HAPPENING.

A lot of Irish women receive abortions in the UK (nearly 4,000 last year).
If these could take place in Ireland they would take place at an earlier stage of development (eg 6-8 weeks not 12-16).

But. They. Still. Happen.

ELM327 wrote: »

They can, and were, stopped. Until the majority of the country approved the 12th and 13th amendment.

Since you have not answered my question, I will repost it.

Like the 8th amendment, people voted for it to be the law of the land.

RobertKK wrote: »

It is enshrined that abortion can happen in certain cases, there is not censorship of information if it is asked for, and women can't be stopped travelling because it is impracticable for starters.
It doesn't mean we have to go down the wrong road because others have.

Those who are unable to travel are the only people legally prevented from abortions. Them you've got the fact that they're happening regardless of legality. It's not a matter of being impracticable, Irish citizens view it as acceptable to travel for abortions. They have for decades. The fact that a woman can be prevented from having cancer treatments that will ultimately save their lives, indicates we went the wrong way in 83.

RobertKK wrote: »

Like the 8th amendment, people voted for it to be the law of the land.

Lets see on the 26th of May if that continues to be the case.

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Genuine question?

Why do you think of a <12 week pregnancy as a child?
What's your personal experience of pregnancy & children that brings you to that conclusion?

If you haven't already, (or for those reading along) try talking to the women in your life about it.

If you talked to me, I'd tell you that I have one child and I had a miscarriage at 11 weeks.

The miscarriage was deeply upsetting. It was a planned pregnancy, a wanted baby. . . I cried, I grieved, it took me months to recover.

Months, not years, not decades.
I know people who've lost children, they never recover.
Decades later it still affects them daily.

An 11 week foetus is not a child.

I'd like to add my story to this. I have given a child up for adoption and I've had a miscarriage. My daughter's adoption took place 29 years ago; the miscarriage occurred 20 years ago. I am psychologically and emotionally traumatised as a result of being separated from my daughter - something I struggle with on a daily basis, even all these years later. I rarely give a second thought to the miscarriage. They most definitely were not the same experiences.

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't see him judging women.

So when you tell a woman they cannot have a termination because of your " morals ", despite them making the decision themselves, that is not judging?

January wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You didn't see me acting this way when you wanted a full medical diagnosis when I posted something personal, I at least give people the option to not reply if they don't want to. Not hectored and all the rest of the crap I was subjected to.

January wrote: »

I simply asked you for the name of the condition your nephew was diagnosed with not his full medical diagnosis. You're assuming this woman is traumatised because she hasn't looked for the child she gave up for adoption (which you don't even know by the way). World of difference with what I asked and what you are assuming.

You assume wrong, I asked and said maybe she did, you just look for an argument sometimes when there is no need for the hostility.
You think I remember really long medical conditions and why did you see it as your business to know? I said in the above case that no reply was needed if that is what she wanted to do, not badger someone for information as you tried. If what you did is fine, then go ask a doctor for medical information on someone who isn't related to you.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/48c4b944-4f02-11e8-9812-5f003d09c84c
Yet more dirty tricks from the no side

RobertKK wrote: »

Just wondering, is that because down down you know there is a person out there hopefully still alive and leading a good life and the other died in pregnancy and you know that can't be unchanged, there is nothing you can do now?
You need not answer if you don't want to. Maybe you need to look for the child you gave up for adoption, maybe you have, but none of this needs be replied to as I understand it is personal and you are under no obligation to answer anything.

Hi Robert. I don't mind replying - I am very open about my daughter & how negatively affected I have been by our separation.

I don't need to look for my daughter because we have a semi-open adoption. This means I have been able to write to her, send gifts, receive photos and updates all along. I know she is living a good life and has always been well cared for. I'm still waiting for her to be ready to get to know me in person. I have to believe that day will eventually come.

The reason both experiences were so completely different to each other was because one pregnancy became my baby and the other pregnancy didn't. It really is a simple as that for me. A 'could have become a baby' and a 'did become a baby'.

I think people underestimate how painful it is to give birth to a baby and allow someone else become that child's mother - I certainly did before I made that choice. I had no idea it was going to be a lifelong grieving process. If a friend came to me and told me they were thinking of choosing adoption, I would strongly advise against it. Time doesn't heal all wounds - my experience of adoption has been that time continuously deepens the wound.

tigger123 wrote: »

Unbelievable.

They honestly have no shame whatsoever there is whole thread with lies associated with this campaign its pretty horrendous, the levels some people will scoop too.

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Hi Robert. I don't mind replying - I am very open about my daughter & how negatively affected I have been by our separation.

I don't need to look for my daughter because we have a semi-open adoption. This means I have been able to write to her, send gifts, receive photos and updates all along. I know she is living a good life and has always been well cared for. I'm still waiting for her to be ready to get to know me in person. I have to believe that day will eventually come.

The reason both experiences were so completely different to each other was because one pregnancy became my baby and the other pregnancy didn't. It really is a simple as that for me. A 'could have become a baby' and a 'did become a baby'.

I think people underestimate how painful it is to give birth to a baby and allow someone else become that child's mother - I certainly did before I made that choice. I had no idea it was going to be a lifelong grieving process. If a friend came to me and told me they were thinking of choosing adoption, I would strongly advise against it. Time doesn't heal all wounds - my experience of adoption has been that time continuously deepens the wound.

Thank you, I can understand some of that, and then is more I would have to experience to understand. I did a DNA test a couple of years ago, one of those you see advertised, I had a person contact me who was adopted, living in the US, around a 3rd cousin, but I couldn't really help him as I couldn't find the actual connection to help him. I do understand it can be difficult for both the woman who gives up for the baby for adoption, and for the person who was adopted. I won't pretend I understand it like you do, so thank you for sharing.