8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Timberrrrrrrr · 06-05-2018 09:54AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

Yeah......this post has been reported because if you are serious then you are talking about going down a very dark path!

bootpaws · 06-05-2018 09:54AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Ah those evil men again,

Literally one page over a man suggested removing our wombs as punishment for seeking abortion.

wexie · 06-05-2018 09:54AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

.....jeeez.....that's not psychotic at all

Andrew Beef · 06-05-2018 09:55AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

We should even consider ending the life of that unborn child unless it can be proven, within the timescale, that a rape has taken place. Ideally, an actual trial would take place but that is not feasible.

So the rapist gets to live his life as innocent until proven guilty until such time a trial has taken place.

Meanwhile his victim has to live her life as guilty until proven innocentuntil such time a trial has taken place.

The missing piece in your analysis is the life of the unborn!

bodice ripper · 06-05-2018 09:56AM

Andrew Beef wrote:

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patientâ€™s womb must also be removed. Itâ€™s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Wonderful. Let's remove the testicles of the man who knocked her up too. Cover all the bases.

AnneFrank · 06-05-2018 09:57AM

bootpaws wrote: »

Literally one page over a man suggested removing our wombs as punishment for seeking abortion.

Not the view of every man though, in fact I'd say it's the view of one man

06-05-2018 09:57AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

This has to be a p*ss take...

Zubeneschamali · 06-05-2018 09:58AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

The alternative proposed by the Citizens Assembly and non party Oireachteas Committee after listening to expert testimony: unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks.

Andrew Beef · 06-05-2018 09:59AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

Yeah......this post has been reported because if you are serious then you are talking about going down a very dark path!

It wasn’t my idea and is not my position.

I have given my position a lot of thought and, if you actually spent some time reflecting on my position rather than leaping for the rant button, you’d see it’s reasonable.

- I am in favour of abortion in FFA and Savita-type cases.

- I am in favour of abortion in cases of rape.

My position is hardly extreme!

But tell me how we can prove rape in the timescale.

Too many people in this debate have extreme views but no answers!!!

pjohnson · 06-05-2018 09:59AM

Every second youtube vid is an add for the no side.

Hannibal_Smith · 06-05-2018 09:59AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

So the idea is to allow the woman be mutilated but not a 12 week feotus aborted. If a woman has an abortion remove her womb? And what about the father? Do you give him the snip?

The alternative is to allow the woman chose whether she wants to remain pregnant or not. If she does, fine. Of she doesn't, abort it.

Hannibal_Smith · 06-05-2018 10:01AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It wasn’t my idea and is not my position.

I have given my position a lot of thought and, if you actually spent some time reflecting on my position rather than leaping for the rant button, you’d see it’s reasonable.

- I am in favour of abortion in FFA and Savita-type cases.

- I am in favour of abortion in cases of rape.

My position is hardly extreme!

But tell me how we can prove rape in the timescale.

Too many people in this debate have extreme views but no answers!!!

Extreme views? You've just posted about a Rape Committee and a mate who wants to remove wombs!

Andrew Beef · 06-05-2018 10:02AM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

So the idea is to allow the woman be mutilated but not a 12 week feotus aborted. If a woman has an abortion remove her womb? And what about the father? Do you give him the snip?

The alternative is to allow the woman chose whether she wants to remain pregnant or not. If she does, fine. Of she doesn't, abort it.

It is not my idea, and I don’t support it.

I support abortion in FFA/Savita type cases and in cases of rape.

Beyond that, I am opposed to abortion.

My position is pretty mainstream.

bootpaws · 06-05-2018 10:02AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Not the view of every man though, in fact I'd say it's the view of one man

Well, that man claims to have heard it from another man and posted it here in agreement. So it's actually the view of at least two men.

Do you expect me to believe that's just an isolated case? It's clear that's how many of these men are viewing women. Make us pay a price in return for seeking something they don't like.

pitifulgod · 06-05-2018 10:03AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

"Novel" ideas in the case of rape, you're sounding progressively worse. My alternative is to let women make their own minds up. Your concept is traumatising.

Andrew Beef · 06-05-2018 10:03AM

bootpaws wrote: »

AnneFrank wrote: »

Not the view of every man though, in fact I'd say it's the view of one man

Well, that man claims to have heard it from another man and posted it here in agreement. So it's actually the view of at least two men.

Do you expect me to believe that's just an isolated case? It's clear that's how many of these men are viewing women. Make us pay a price in return for seeking something they don't like.

Hilarious how people don’t read posts!

Where did I say I agreed?!

Hannibal_Smith · 06-05-2018 10:04AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

The missing piece in your analysis is the life of the unborn!

So it goes, in order of priority:-

- Men
- Unborn
- women

Is That it?

PhoenixParker · 06-05-2018 10:04AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The alternative proposed by the Citizens Assembly and non party Oireachteas Committee after listening to expert testimony: unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks.

It's not unrestricted, I think we need to stop using that word.

Unrestricted would mean being able to buy pills in SuperValu or Lidl (or de facto legally on the internet with no consultation)
A level up from that would be pharmacy only like many medications.
Up from that would be after consultation with a pharmacist like codeine and the morning after pill.
Up from that again would be prescribed by a doctor.

The proposal is a level higher than that at confirmation of gestation, consultation with a doctor and a three day waiting period.

The proposal is restricted abortion up to 12 weeks and very restricted abortion thereafter.

Hannibal_Smith · 06-05-2018 10:05AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It is not my idea, and I don’t support it.

I support abortion in FFA/Savita type cases and in cases of rape.

Beyond that, I am opposed to abortion.

My position is pretty mainstream.

If the woman is to have her womb removed, what should happen to the man?

eviltwin · 06-05-2018 10:05AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It is not my idea, and I don’t support it.

I support abortion in FFA/Savita type cases and in cases of rape.

Beyond that, I am opposed to abortion.

My position is pretty mainstream.

You also said women who have abortions should be prosecuted. Hardly mainstream.

PhoenixParker · 06-05-2018 10:06AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

It is not my idea, and I don’t support it.

I support abortion in FFA/Savita type cases and in cases of rape.

Beyond that, I am opposed to abortion.

My position is pretty mainstream.

What about say a diabetic woman likely to go permanently blind as a result of pregnancy?

hill16bhoy · 06-05-2018 10:06AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

A pal of mine who is also opposed to discretionary abortion came up with an interesting idea recently.

Many people fear that liberalising Ireland’s abortion regime will result in abortion being used as some form of retrospective contraception.

His idea? For discretionary abortions pre-12 weeks, the patient’s womb must also be removed. It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

Re abortions/incest, all I see and hear is people ranting and raving but not coming up with proposals to deal with it.

The Rape Committee concept is novel and extreme some might say, but what’s people’s alternative?

Removing a woman's womb...

A "rape committee"...

Deary me.

We are through the looking glass, here, people.

Hannibal_Smith · 06-05-2018 10:08AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Hilarious how people don’t read posts!

Where did I say I agreed?!

It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

^^^ There

bootpaws · 06-05-2018 10:10AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Hilarious how people don’t read posts!

Where did I say I agreed?!

You certainly didn't say you don't agree with it. You said you found it "interesting", and it would be a way to weed out "willy nilly abortions."

Thinking that by not outright saying whether you agree or disagree fools nobody. You left yourself a little emergency exit by neither condemning nor praising it, but anyone with sense and an even somewhat normal outlook would never have even brought something so disgusting up, never mind call it "interesting."

Would you say it's "interesting" if we were campaigning for forced vasectomies until men were of a certain age, and deemed by a committee of professional women as "Ready" to start risking bringing babies into the world?

wexie · 06-05-2018 10:10AM

PhoenixParker wrote: »

What about say a diabetic woman likely to go permanently blind as a result of pregnancy?

Or a woman who'd end up with serious nerve damage after another pregnancy and consequently could end up in a wheelchair.

There are numerous other examples where the woman's 'life' may not necessarily be in danger from a pregnancy but that pregnancy could nonetheless have a very severe impact on her health.

I guess we'll just have to put up with those cases right?

hill16bhoy · 06-05-2018 10:10AM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

It’s extreme to say the least, but it would certainly rule out abortions taking place willy nilly.

^^^ There

There was something very David Brent about that sentence.

Mrsmum · 06-05-2018 10:11AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

A 12 week old foetus in the womb is not a clump of cells or an idea of a child that is spoken about here, to lots of people it's a child.

Regarding calling the unborn baby a "potential baby", the way I see that is, a foetus is to a born baby what a baby is to a wo/man. The path from one state to the next is direct same as middle age to old age. Any child has potential to be President of Ireland, it may or may not happen. If it happens it requires more than the child just growing and developing but every child reaches adulthood unless an accident, illness, suicide or being killed happens, all of which are terrible tragedies. So as far as I'm concerned, people can call it a potential child all they like. A healthy foetus is going to be a born person same as I am going to grow old baring something bad happening.

Hammer Archer · 06-05-2018 10:14AM

AnneFrank wrote: »

A 12 week old foetus in the womb is not a clump of cells or an idea of a child that is spoken about here, to lots of people it's a child.

You are one charming person Anne Frank. Love both indeed. It's quite frankly bizarre how my partner's miscarriage seems to have elicited such a hostile response from you.

joe40 · 06-05-2018 10:17AM

A poster talks about removing the wombs of women that have abortions, and people like it. That takes scummy to a whole new level.
This talk about rape committees is so outlandish it has to be a piss take.
We either get rid of the 8th or not. After 3 amendments to the 8th some people think it can be tweaked again to suit the real world.

BabysCoffee · 06-05-2018 10:19AM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Yes, I would. I would prefer if discretionary abortions were illegal and gave rise to prosecutions because I believe that they are utterly wrong.

Would you force women to stay pregnant against their will too?

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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