Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

Muahahaha · 04-05-2018 09:37AM

Looks like Jackson & Olding are going to have a hard time finding a club. The Sale rumours were true until a sponsor came in and pulled the plug https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sale-sponsor-contacts-club-over-jackson-and-olding-link-36872144.html

A lead sponsor of rugby club Sale Sharks has spoken to the club's boss over any potential move for Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding after they were linked with the shamed players.

The move comes after the English Premiership club moved to distance itself from links to the former Ulster Rugby pair.

It's understood that Andy Bell - co-founder of AJ Bell, who is Sale's stadium sponsor - has been in touch with director of rugby Steve Diamond since reports circulated about a possible move for the two players.

Given that Sale have taken on controversial players in the past and wont be on this occasion I would think that Jackson and Oldings options are even more limited now. Also every time a club rejects them their wage value goes even further down.

Jmccoy1 · 04-05-2018 09:45AM

Maybe they should just retire.

04-05-2018 09:51AM

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

Muahahaha · 04-05-2018 09:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

I would imagine they will find some club but it does appear that the French ones are not biting and now Exeter and Sale are the same so their options are getting limited. Perhaps Australia/NZ or even Japan might be a better option for them.

One thing I have learned from this is the power the sponsors hold. They are responsible for approx 75% of Ulsters income so you would imagine it is the same at other clubs. Which means the sponsors pay the wages and ultimately call the shots. Jackson and Olding now seem to be victims of that reality.

meeeeh · 04-05-2018 09:58AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

I actually feel sorry for them but if you are a sponsor at the time of Weinstein, Cosby and similar scandals, their names couldn't be more toxic. It doesn't matter who heard their name before or who didn't, rugby is not amateur sport, it's business relying on sponsors. They are pr nightmare and unless someone signs them on the quiet it will be very hard to find a club in Europe.

RabbleRouser2k · 04-05-2018 10:41AM

There's gonna be a certain desperation for them to get a team now-I mean, they owe the BBC 20 grand due to a settlement. It's gonna hamper their possible club signings.
They may have to take what they can get.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-05-2018 10:52AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

So mob behaviour or just random nut-jobs - Which is it?

Well, that, all kinda depends on how many nutjobs we're talking about, doesn't it? That said, given the new below, it also depends on which mob/nutjobs you're talking about specifically.

Deleted User wrote: »

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

This isn't a punishment, though. It's a consequence of something you do being seen unfavorably in the public light when you're a figure that is frequently in the public light (regardless of whether or not said act results in a conviction).

04-05-2018 11:14AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I would imagine they will find some club but it does appear that the French ones are not biting and now Exeter and Sale are the same so their options are getting limited. Perhaps Australia/NZ or even Japan might be a better option for them.

One thing I have learned from this is the power the sponsors hold. They are responsible for approx 75% of Ulsters income so you would imagine it is the same at other clubs. Which means the sponsors pay the wages and ultimately call the shots. Jackson and Olding now seem to be victims of that reality.

meeeeh wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for them but if you are a sponsor at the time of Weinstein, Cosby and similar scandals, their names couldn't be more toxic. It doesn't matter who heard their name before or who didn't, rugby is not amateur sport, it's business relying on sponsors. They are pr nightmare and unless someone signs them on the quiet it will be very hard to find a club in Europe.

Sponsors have heeded as a direct result of the mob. While I do think they should be held to higher standards as they are essentially entertainers, if the punishment is to find new career entirely for being found acquitted of rape and sending abhorrent text messages, I am disgusted. Come up with a few hashtags, do a few protests and you can ruin anyone's career apparently. I hope there's a correction in the future against this mob mentality. It needed to happen but it needs be reined in. Whats the point of having a legal system at all. Strange times. I wonder if Louis CK is ever going to work again.

The_Kew_Tour · 04-05-2018 11:16AM

Delighted they ain't getting no clubs. Getting what they deserve

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-05-2018 12:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sponsors have heeded as a direct result of the mob. While I do think they should be held to higher standards as they are essentially entertainers, if the punishment is to find new career entirely for being found acquitted of rape and sending abhorrent text messages, I am disgusted. Come up with a few hashtags, do a few protests and you can ruin anyone's career apparently. I hope there's a correction in the future against this mob mentality. It needed to happen but it needs be reined in. Whats the point of having a legal system at all. Strange times. I wonder if Louis CK is ever going to work again.

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

04-05-2018 12:16PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

So did PJ and SO. Sure so did Craig Gilroy. His comments were the worst of the lot. He shouldn't be playing either if we're being consistent.

RabbleRouser2k · 04-05-2018 12:17PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

Well, he emotionally hurt someone-he exposed himself and masturbated in front of women. He didn't physically hurt someone. He didn't try to rape anyone like Weinstein did, nor did he injure a woman like the two guys did (which they didn't dispute-the nature of how she got the injuries was what they disputed).

Yeah-they were made an example of, tbh-the whatsapp messages pretty much doomed em.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-05-2018 01:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

So did PJ and SO. Sure so did Craig Gilroy. His comments were the worst of the lot. He shouldn't be playing either if we're being consistent.

Fair point, I was unaware of the admission. What did they say and what was the reaction?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-05-2018 01:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

So did PJ and SO. Sure so did Craig Gilroy. His comments were the worst of the lot. He shouldn't be playing either if we're being consistent.

Fair point, I was unaware of the admission. What did they say and what was the reaction?

04-05-2018 01:40PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Looks like Jackson & Olding are going to have a hard time finding a club. The Sale rumours were true until a sponsor came in and pulled the plug https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sale-sponsor-contacts-club-over-jackson-and-olding-link-36872144.html

Given that Sale have taken on controversial players in the past and wont be on this occasion I would think that Jackson and Oldings options are even more limited now. Also every time a club rejects them their wage value goes even further down.

Jackson will be lucky to see £100k/annum the way things are going.
If he had anticipated this his court room steps statement would have been very different I imagine.

04-05-2018 01:48PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Fair point, I was unaware of the admission. What did they say and what was the reaction?

Well the obviously never admitted to rape. They both did small press releases immediately after the result of the case. SO's was very classy imo. PJ not so much. You could tell he was fuming underneath it all. He's since apologised more profusely but was considered too little, too late. PJ's statement is actually much worse than I remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl2u2rymtoU

facehugger99 · 04-05-2018 02:02PM

I've been ahead of the curve on this for weeks now. They need to get out of professional rugby, re-train in a new career and spend the next few years with their heads down studying so that can start paying back their legal fees.

Is their punishment disproportionate?

Possibly, but we'll never know exactly what went on that evening.

However, it's no harm that people get to see the harsh consequences that arise from their appalling behavior - who knows it may have a very positive effect in getting other young men to change their behavior. So while for PJ and SO it may be a tad harsh, for society in general it could be a very good thing indeed.

FrancieBrady · 04-05-2018 02:08PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I've been ahead of the curve on this for weeks now. They need to get out of professional rugby, re-train in a new career and spend the next few years with their heads down studying so that can start paying back their legal fees.

Is their punishment disproportionate?

Possibly, but we'll never know exactly what went on that evening.

However, it's no harm that people get to see the harsh consequences that arise from their appalling behavior - who knows it may have a very positive effect in getting other young men to change their behavior. So while for PJ and SO it may be a tad harsh, for society in general it could be a very good thing indeed.

getting other young men and women to change their behavior.

If you are not prepared to advocate for the above ^ you are a part of the problem.
The quest for vengeance is very telling around this whole thing.

PlaneSpeeking · 04-05-2018 02:10PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I've been ahead of the curve on this for weeks now. They need to get out of professional rugby, re-train in a new career and spend the next few years with their heads down studying so that can start paying back their legal fees.

Is their punishment disproportionate?

Possibly, but we'll never know exactly what went on that evening.

However, it's no harm that people get to see the harsh consequences that arise from their appalling behavior - who knows it may have a very positive effect in getting other young men to change their behavior. So while for PJ and SO it may be a tad harsh, for society in general it could be a very good thing indeed.

Can I assume that the girls who practically raped the male stripper at my sister in law's "bachelorette party" (yes I know!) should similarly be shamed, lose their livelihoods and face a lifetime of penury ?

04-05-2018 02:22PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Can I assume that the girls who practically raped the male stripper at my sister in law's "bachelorette party" (yes I know!) should similarly be shamed, lose their livelihoods and face a lifetime of penury ?

Well, did he experience internal bleeding ?

PlaneSpeeking · 04-05-2018 02:25PM

Augeo wrote: »

Well, did he experience internal bleeding ?

No idea.

He still said no though (well, he said "get off" when they tried to remove the last bit of clothing)

facehugger99 · 04-05-2018 02:30PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Can I assume that the girls who practically raped the male stripper at my sister in law's "bachelorette party" (yes I know!) should similarly be shamed, lose their livelihoods and face a lifetime of penury ?

No idea dude - really depends what "practically raped" means.

PlaneSpeeking · 04-05-2018 02:32PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

No idea dude - really depends what "practically raped" means.

He was there to strip, that's it.

Two girls tried to grab his hands behind his back and one - how can I put this tastefully ? - placed her mouth around him.

That is just not on.

facehugger99 · 04-05-2018 02:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

getting other young men and women to change their behavior.

If you are not prepared to advocate for the above ^ you are a part of the problem.
The quest for vengeance is very telling around this whole thing.

I think you need to return your crystal ball Francie and try to get your money back.

You've been consistently wrong on this issue throughout and your attempts at victim blaming have been clumsy and telling in equal measure.

Less jabber and more listening would be my suggestion for you.

facehugger99 · 04-05-2018 02:36PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

He was there to strip, that's it.

Two girls tried to grab his hands behind his back and one - how can I put this tastefully ? - placed her mouth around him.

That is just not on.

Did he make a formal complaint to the Gardai?

FrancieBrady · 04-05-2018 03:15PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think you need to return your crystal ball Francie and try to get your money back.

You've been consistently wrong on this issue throughout and your attempts at victim blaming have been clumsy and telling in equal measure.

Less jabber and more listening would be my suggestion for you.

My problem in life is thinking that human decency might sometime make an appearance.

But despite the fact they have ruined the careers and Irish life of these men the blood thirsty mob want more.

Of course eventually something else will come along and distract the outraged minds of the rabble and these men can then begin to put something resembling a normal life together while the sad mob members will continue to be sad. On that I am profoundly right.

Billgirlylegs · 04-05-2018 03:17PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

He was there to strip, that's it.

Two girls tried to grab his hands behind his back and one - how can I put this tastefully ? - placed her mouth around him.his knob???

That is just not on.

Did he get paid as well?
:pac:

PlaneSpeeking · 04-05-2018 03:24PM

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

He was there to strip, that's it.

Two girls tried to grab his hands behind his back and one - how can I put this tastefully ? - placed her mouth around him.his knob???

That is just not on.

Did he get paid as well?
:pac:

Good to have it proved that male sex assaults are laughed off.

upandcumming · 04-05-2018 03:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course eventually something else will come along and distract the outraged minds of the rabble and these men can then begin to put something resembling a normal life together while the sad mob members will continue to be sad. On that I am profoundly right.

A well placed no vote this month would be a godsend for Paddy and Stuart.

Billgirlylegs · 04-05-2018 03:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My problem in life is thinking that human decency might sometime make an appearance.

But despite the fact they have ruined the careers and Irish life of these men the blood thirsty mob want more.

Of course eventually something else will come along and distract the outraged minds of the rabble and these men can then begin to put something resembling a normal life together while the sad mob members will continue to be sad. On that I am profoundly right.

Unusually, no one (and I mean no one ) "knows" what went on that night.
It is (possible but) highly unlikely that a 19 year old girl would agree to be treated like a blow up doll, and to be injured to boot.
The "gentlemen" involved were later caught bragging about what they contributed to her injuries.

There is no evidence of rape ( I don't know what evidence there ever is), therefore they could not be convicted of rape.
They were not found innocent/acquitted of the crime, but the charges.

They were free to leave the court and to go about their business.
However, others may have a view on the circumstances that would not necessarily need proof for them to hold those views. They may feel they do not want to engage or deal with the said gentlemen, based on what information they have received.

Those people may be "sponsors" and their decision may be commercially based. They may be of the opinion that their morals would not let them associate with certain people.

Whatever ruination these "gentlemen" feel has been visited on them, was entirely self inflicted.

Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

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