Tired of being hoodwinked

beefburrito wrote: »

Im not very politically motivated , but I hear a lot of bad press about Iran .
And how strict they are about western ways.

Im on instagram and have a few friends in Iran, they seem to be oblivious to the bull**** we're being told.

There's tatoo parlour's, places to socialise late night resturaunts, top end fashion outlets, men and women getting the slickest hairdo's.

I'm trying to understand the point you are trying to make OP, but you seem to be conflating a few different issues:

1. Moral and religious freedoms;
2. Civil and Political freedoms;
3. External threats.

Iran was a pro western monarchy until the revloution in 1979. After that, it became what was, at the time, seen as the strictest Islamic regime in the world. It imposed fairly strict Sharia law upon its people, but had allowances for the relatively small ethnic minorities such as Christians and Jews, many of whom had supported the revolution. Since then, it has been controlled by unelected religious leaders who have greater constitutional powers than the president of Iran.

Christians and Jews today are allowed to practise their religion but they can be subjected to religous intolerance at times. They can drink alcohol and do not have to wear conservative clothing etc. They can get tatoos or go clubbing in Tehran if they like. But they they want to try to convert their Muslim neighbours or tell them how wonderful their religion is, they can be stoned to death. Muslims, that is those who the law deems to be Muslim, cannot legally drink or take drugs etc and must dress modestly.

UK Home Office Report wrote:

5.3.5 Christian Today reported in October 2016 that:
‘Three Iranian men who converted to Christianity from Islam are appealing
against criminal convictions for drinking alcohol. Yasser Mossayebzadeh,
Saheb Fadaie and Mohammad Reza Omidi were sentenced to 80 lashes for
taking communion wine. Non-Muslims are allowed to drink alcohol in Iran.
But because conversion to Christianity from Islam is forbidden and regarded
as apostasy, the three men are still legally regarded as Muslims. The third
man, Omidi, already has a previous conviction for drinking alcohol. If he is
convicted a third time, he is likely to face the death sentence. World Watch
Monitor reports that the three men have also been charged with acting
against national security.’54

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/686067/iran-christians-cpin.pdf

There are, however, areas where illegal activity takes place:

The Guardian wrote:

While a strictly enforced law compels other shopkeepers to close by midnight, Super Jordan stays open through the wee hours, monopolizing late-night refreshment sales. It is rumored that the owner has exquisite connections to the municipal government; in any case, shoppers in various stages of inebriation complete their purchases without police intervention.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2014/apr/17/tehran-the-secret-party-town

I understand that things have become a bit better since 2014.

So if your friends are going to pubs in Iran they are probably either:
1. Non-Muslim i.e. recognised Christian/Jewish
2. Breaking the law
3. Politically well connected upper class types.

They may well say that it is normal to you, but it would be a bit like you saying that you go out every night snorting cocaine and it's perfectly normal. That might be normal for you, but it isn't representative or legal.

Then we have the fact that there is a lack of civil and political freedoms.

beefburrito wrote: »

I've one guy I follow and he drives around Tehran at night house music pumping from the speakers, with a Cam on his dash, you can visibly see the bustling street's, women in T-shirts maybe head scarves.

I'm sure he does. Why don't you ask him to go around blasting pro democracy or blasphemous slogans and see how far he gets?

Vibrant city streets, night life without booze and drugs.
Dj's spinning class Eastern house music.

In the Armeian quarter of Tehran?

The Shia Islam is very tolerant of a lot more than the hardline Sunni.

Yes. But not as tolerant as Western Secular States. Ask an Ahmadi if they would like to live in Iran.

Happy people living a life without drink and drugs, smoking is allowed.

Christian's Jew's and Muslim's chilling together.
I don't drink myself so the whole lack of alcohol wouldn't bother me.

I think you have a somewhat rosy picture of it. Particularly if you are trying to make the arugment that you seem to be i.e. that the Media are giving an unfair view of Iran. Well, do you think it is possible that you and your Iranian friends are trying to point only to the good bits of it in a sort of propaganda way?

You wouldn't get this in Saudi Arabia

Im totally confused

This brings me to the third point, which is the external threat aspect of Iran. The reason why the USA and Israel hate Iran is nothing to do with how the Iranian government treats its own citizens and is all to do with the fact that, until recently, Iran has been developing nuclear weapons and has constantly threatened to destroy the State of Israel. If the Western Media portrays Iran badly, it is less to do with their internal rights situation and lack of democracy, but instead it is to do with the fact that they are one of the countries that has been threatening to start WWIII.

As for Saudi Arabia, they are another terrible country in terms of human rights and democracy. But they are not a direct threat* to the USA, Israel or Europe and are a significant trade partner vis a vis oil and banking etc.

So perhaps you feel that you are being hoodwinked because if you were to be transported to Tehran and Riyadh, you would have a much better time in Tehran, while at the same time the big picture message from the Western Media is Iran = bad, Saudi Arabia = good. But these are two different things entirely.

It doesn't look like a hell hole to me.

At this point in a debate someone might say "Well if it is so wonderful, why don't you go and live there?" but obviously you can't as they don't allow non Muslim inward migration.


*I'm aware that Saudi Arabia have sponsored extreme Wahabism and there are indirect links between the HoS and Al Qaeda etc.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

So what? This "pro western" monarchy was deeply unpopular among Iranians and only the brutal secret police (SAVAK) kept the puppet Shah in power.

Well the OP wanted to know why Iran has gotten such bad press. That's one of the reasons why.

Syria may not have much political freedom but it is the most secular state in the middle east, why is the Saudi/NATO alliance backing Sunni extremists to overthrow this state?

Well NATO's plan was to back secular and non extremist opposition forces, but that plan was poorly executed. Saudi backing the Sunni extrmeists is not terribly surprising.