8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

01-05-2018 05:07PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why should we trust women? There are good, bad, and indifferent women in the World, just as there are good, bad and indifferent men.

No. We are not voting on abortion. We are, however, voting on the removal of protection of the unborn, with a view to allowing abortion legislation to be decided by Politicians.
.

I think the term 'trust women' is in relation to their own health & pregnancy. Not anything else.
Why do you not trust women to do what is the right thing for them?
Who do you think should decide what's right for women?

Of course legislation will be brought in by politicians, that's why we vote them in.
That's their job.

SusieBlue · 01-05-2018 05:09PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Shouldn't be any aggro, is such a personal thing worry about your own vote and let other people vote as they please
By the way you put it do you believe only women should be voting on this or should men only be allowed vote if they vote yes ?
Again i'm not on either side,

That's the problem.
I have to worry about how other people vote, because how other people vote will have a direct effect on my human rights and bodily autonomy.
I worry all the time that a No vote will win, because a No vote ensures I will receive substandard maternity care and will not have the ability to consent or withdraw consent while I am pregnant.
And that absolutely terrifies me.

I believe both men and woman should be allowed to vote for whatever they feel in their hearts is the best outcome.

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:09PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

yourdeadwright I respect your decision - its your vote to use or not. Life is not black or white but shades of grey and that's what I find is wrong with the 8th Amendment and I'm looking for Repeal. Life is not black and white and that amendment does not allow for shades of grey. You can complain about the outcome if you want, this is a democracy, it won't impact anyone on this thread.

Repeal all the way, body autonomy for all.

I'm happy your confident in you choice, and I respect both sides,
I think its such a personal thing that has effected many people that I won't be trying to sway people either way ,

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:12PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Shouldn't be any aggro, is such a personal thing worry about your own vote and let other people vote as they please
By the way you put it do you believe only women should be voting on this or should men only be allowed vote if they vote yes ?
Again i'm not on either side,

That's the problem.
I have to worry about how other people vote, because how other people vote will have a direct effect on my human rights and bodily autonomy.
I worry all the time that a No vote will win, because a No vote ensures I will receive substandard maternity care and will not have the ability to consent or withdraw consent while I am pregnant.
And that absolutely terrifies me.

I believe both men and woman should be allowed to vote for whatever they feel in their hearts is the best outcome.

I wholeheartedly understand your worries and accept there is worry on both side , I myself for my own personal reasons will not be voting .

....... · 01-05-2018 05:13PM

This post has been deleted.

robarmstrong · 01-05-2018 05:14PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Shouldn't be any aggro, is such a personal thing worry about your own vote and let other people vote as they please
By the way you put it do you believe only women should be voting on this or should men only be allowed vote if they vote yes ?
Again i'm not on either side,

No, I don't believe either of those things.

I'm stating that there is aggro because a certain "choice" means retaining the 8th, which in turn continues to deprive women of a right to body autonomy.

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:15PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not voting is the same as voting no.[/quote]
I'm afraid your mistaken,

Wrongway1985 · 01-05-2018 05:15PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just to pull you up there his PERSONAL opinion is all that counts ,its his choice what he votes not your or anyone else,

He was making the argument that we shouldn't trust women and that was his reasoning, If wanting to make judgement for the majority of the population he will have no dealings with and justify it by those means that seemed strikingly daft to me but of course it is his right to vote whichever way in the end.

gctest50 · 01-05-2018 05:16PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

....,.

We are, however, voting on the removal of protection of the unborn.....

.

No we're not, we are not voting on restricting travel for women in Ireland

So - keep exporting and stay a joke of a country

or take the training wheels off ?

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:17PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Shouldn't be any aggro, is such a personal thing worry about your own vote and let other people vote as they please
By the way you put it do you believe only women should be voting on this or should men only be allowed vote if they vote yes ?
Again i'm not on either side,

No, I don't believe either of those things.

I'm stating that there is aggro because a certain "choice" means retaining the 8th, which in turn continues to deprive women of a right to body autonomy.

That's obvious but in a democracy we vote on these things so everyone has a right to there own opinion

It wasnt me123 · 01-05-2018 05:17PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm happy your confident in you choice, and I respect both sides,
I think its such a personal thing that has effected many people that I won't be trying to sway people either way ,

Its not really a personal thing. If you vote no that may (but I think Repeal with win) affect someone who is currently pregnant. A pregnant woman can be refused medical treatment due to the pregnancy therefore every vote does matter.

It may not affect you personally or your family, but if a member of your family is pregnant, this amendment affects them.

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2018 05:19PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not this time. Yes is well ahead in the polls, so if all the Don't Knows don't vote, Yes wins handily.

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:19PM

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just to pull you up there his PERSONAL opinion is all that counts ,its his choice what he votes not your or anyone else,

He was making the argument that we shouldn't trust women and that was his reasoning, If wanting to make judgement for the majority of the population he will have no dealings with and justify it by those means that seemed strikingly daft to me but of course it is his right to vote whichever way in the end.

His reasoning is his reasoning so he is entitled to it weather you think its right or wrong,
Its how democracy works., he gets a vote like anyone else, to state its irrelevant is just not correct

It wasnt me123 · 01-05-2018 05:20PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No it isnt and I'm repeal all the way.

Its worse to actually vote no than not vote and believe me, lots of people that "don't understand it all" vote no to lots of stuff.

My opinion, if you don't understand or don't care, don't vote. If you are informed then vote - and that will mean vote Yes. If the death of Savita has taught us anything, it is that the status quo has to go.

SusieBlue · 01-05-2018 05:20PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wholeheartedly understand your worries and accept there is worry on both side , I myself for my own personal reasons will not be voting .

I can't accept the worries of the other side.
If the Yes vote wins, nothing will change, there will be no forced abortions and they can live their lives as they did before.
If a No vote wins, I am denied bodily autonomy and will receive substandard maternity care as a guarantee.
And if I'm ever unfortunate enough to be in a situation where I'm in need for abortion (I don't plan to be, but who knows what the future holds) I will be denied that and forced to seek medical treatment abroad because I am denied by my own country.

My Yes vote won't hurt them, but their No vote WILL hurt me.

So to be honest my sympathy for the No side is pretty limited. If they stopped worrying about other people's uterus's and other peoples bedroom activities I'm sure it would be of benefit to them.

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:21PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm happy your confident in you choice, and I respect both sides,
I think its such a personal thing that has effected many people that I won't be trying to sway people either way ,

Its not really a personal thing. If you vote no that may (but I think Repeal with win) affect someone who is currently pregnant. A pregnant woman can be refused medical treatment due to the pregnancy therefore every vote does matter.

It may not affect you personally or your family, but if a member of your family is pregnant, this amendment affects them.

Again you don't understand democracy do you ,
People have a choice to vote as they please and there choice is there choice weather you feel its right or wrong, If its the right choice for them its the right choice for them, regardless if they vote yes or no ,

Wrongway1985 · 01-05-2018 05:22PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

do you believe only women should be voting on this or should men only be allowed vote if they vote yes ?
Again i'm not on either side,

No-one should be voting on this!! Women should've had those rights donkeys years ago!

...But as it's come down to it...vote yes!

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:24PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wholeheartedly understand your worries and accept there is worry on both side , I myself for my own personal reasons will not be voting .

I can't accept the worries of the other side.
If the Yes vote wins, nothing will change, there will be no forced abortions and they can live their lives as they did before.
If a No vote wins, I am denied bodily autonomy and will receive substandard maternity care as a guarantee.
And if I'm ever unfortunate enough to be in a situation where I'm in need for abortion (I don't plan to be, but who knows what the future holds) I will be denied that and forced to seek medical treatment abroad because I am denied by my own country.

My Yes vote won't hurt them, but their No vote WILL hurt me.

So to be honest my sympathy for the No side is pretty limited. If they stopped worrying about other people's uterus's and other peoples bedroom activities I'm sure it would be of benefit to them.

But there YES vote might hurt them , people have to realise not everyone has the same beliefs ,
Put the info out there and let people vote as the chose , Its a personal choice ,
As iv said my personal choice is not to vote but each to there own

01-05-2018 05:24PM

....... wrote: »

Not voting is the same as voting no.

It's not really when it comes to tallying the votes

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:25PM

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

do you believe only women should be voting on this or should men only be allowed vote if they vote yes ?
Again i'm not on either side,

No-one should be voting on this!! Women should've had those rights donkeys years ago!

...But as it's come down to it...vote yes!

All power to your opinion ,
Just to clarify if someone was pushing people to vote no i'd say the same leave people to there own opinion once there educated in it ,

BabysCoffee · 01-05-2018 05:25PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm happy your confident in you choice, and I respect both sides,
I think its such a personal thing that has effected many people that I won't be trying to sway people either way ,

Its not really a personal thing. If you vote no that may (but I think Repeal with win) affect someone who is currently pregnant. A pregnant woman can be refused medical treatment due to the pregnancy therefore every vote does matter.

It may not affect you personally or your family, but if a member of your family is pregnant, this amendment affects them.

Again you don't understand democracy do you ,
People have a choice to vote as they please and there choice is there choice weather you feel its right or wrong, If its the right choice for them its the right choice for them, regardless if they vote yes or no ,

People have a right to vote as they choose.

However by voting no you are saying you wish to refuse women having the right to choose what is best for them during pregnancy.

A Yes vote gives freedom to women. Freedom to choose as they see fit.

SusieBlue · 01-05-2018 05:26PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But there YES vote might hurt them , people have to realise not everyone has the same beliefs ,
Put the info out there and let people vote as the chose , Its a personal choice ,
As iv said my personal choice is not to vote but each to there own

That's really ironic because a Yes vote ensures everyone can actually live by their own beliefs, whereas a No vote everyone in society has to live according to one set of morals and opinions.

That's the whole point of being Pro-Choice.

yourdeadwright · 01-05-2018 05:27PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

But there YES vote might hurt them , people have to realise not everyone has the same beliefs ,
Put the info out there and let people vote as the chose , Its a personal choice ,
As iv said my personal choice is not to vote but each to there own

That's really ironic because a Yes vote ensures everyone can actually live by their own beliefs, whereas a No vote everyone in society has to live according to one set of morals and opinions.

That's the whole point of being Pro-Choice.

I get what your saying but the fact we live in a democracy people have right to vote as they please

Triceratops Ballet · 01-05-2018 05:30PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I get what your saying but the fact we live in a democracy people have right to vote as they please

of course they do, and they have to accept the ramifications of that vote.

Sanguine Fan · 01-05-2018 05:31PM

Is anyone else frustrated by the tone of the campaigns (around Dublin anyway)? The 'No' side seem to think that pro-choice people are baby-killers. The 'Yes' people present abortion as an extension of women's health care, ignoring completely the second human life involved.

It's probably too much to expect any common ground between two such polarised positions. But surely everyone can agree that there are some (rare) situations where terminating a pregnancy is the better course of action. And these cases cannot be decided in a court or a voting station. They are between the woman and her doctor, and we must assume good faith on both their parts.

The problem with the current referendum proposal is that it is a blunt object. Either we have no abortion at all or anyone who is pregnant can get one for any reason. I don't like either alternative.

Was it beyond the wit of the geniuses in Leinster House to come up with something better than this?

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2018 05:33PM

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

Was it beyond the wit of the geniuses in Leinster House to come up with something better than this?

Yes.

The geniuses in Leinster House didn't come up with the 8th.

And they didn't come up with this proposal either.

They have spent the last 35 years carefully not doing anything about this subject.

Igotadose · 01-05-2018 05:33PM

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

Was it beyond the wit of the geniuses in Leinster House to come up with something better than this?

Nothing'll change unless the amendment is removed from the constitution. The 'blunt instrument' is the 8th amendment. Remove it and let the Dail do what it's constituted for.

pitifulgod · 01-05-2018 05:35PM

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

Is anyone else frustrated by the tone of the campaigns (around Dublin anyway)? The 'No' side seem to think that pro-choice people are baby-killers. The 'Yes' people present abortion as an extension of women's health care, ignoring completely the second human life involved.

It's probably too much to expect any common ground between two such polarised positions. But surely everyone can agree that there are some (rare) situations where terminating a pregnancy is the better course of action. And these cases cannot be decided in a court or a voting station. They are between the woman and her doctor, and we must assume good faith on both their parts.

The problem with the current referendum proposal is that it is a blunt object. Either we have no abortion at all or anyone who is pregnant can get one for any reason. I don't like either alternative.

Was it beyond the wit of the geniuses in Leinster House to come up with something better than this?

It was the recommendation of the citizens assembly and attorney General. Enshrining legislation that is inherently complex into the constitution is pretty risky. It's brought about numerous issues since it was first introduced. It also did nothing to prevent abortions unless somebody was unable to travel. The proposed legislation is pretty moderate and in line with similar legislation in the EU.

Sofiztikated · 01-05-2018 05:36PM

Next Tuesday is the closing date for the supplementary Register.

Once again, just a reminder for anyone that wishes to vote, however they please, to ensure you are on it.

https://www.checktheregister.ie/https://www.checktheregister.ie/

Wrongway1985 · 01-05-2018 05:36PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

he gets a vote like anyone else, to state its irrelevant is just not correct

To clarify - I didn't say his vote was irrelevant I was saying his feelings towards sections of women should be irrelevant when trusting women to do whats best for themselves.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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