10 GB Internet from Eir?

Impetus · 25-04-2018 11:09AM #1

Xavier Neill, who now controls Eir, bought Orange Switzerland, and changed its name to Salt. Salt/Orange was regarded as a number 3 network in CH in terms of performance and coverage quality. During Neill’s tenure, Salt has moved up in QoS terms to meet and sometimes exceed Swisscom (which is more expensive for the subscriber).

Salt has gone straight for 10 GB internet, bi-directional at full speed. Salt Fiber costs CHF 49.95 per month (€41.77), and for that the subscriber gets internet at 10,000 Mbits/sec, 250+ TV channels, unlimited telephone calls in Switzerland – without a subscription period lock-in. Discount on internet cost for people who also subscribe to Salt Mobile.

https://fiber.salt.ch/en/offer-en/

(I have 1GB internet in another country (not CH), and it costs EUR 25 per month. It is great for IPTV and downloading fast. The PC’s screen fills take nano-seconds (unless the server running the website is under-provisioned).

Salt has mobile packages that exceed EU roaming offerings:

Switzerland:

Unlimited calls, SMS, MMS
Unlimited calls to the EU and USA
Unlimited high speed Internet (4G)

Roaming in the EU & USA :

Unlimited calls, SMS, MMS
4 GB/month

Subscribers with Salt Mobile get a discount on Salt internet.

The range of TV channels available on Salt makes satellite and cable TV offerings in Ireland look pathetic. https://fiber.salt.ch/en/channels-en/ and this is one key reason why Irish people lack linguistic skills. The cable and satellite networks they subscribe to blanket them with English and little else.

ED E · 25-04-2018 11:19AM

Post from Impy....wondert what it could be? Oh, another rant against Irish telcos he doesn't use. Quelle surprise!

Gonzo · 25-04-2018 11:39AM

I don't expect him to turn Eir around the same way as he did with Salt, this is Ireland.

Speeds of 10gig are completely unnecessary here and won't be required for many years. Eir's data cap isn't even enough for the speeds they do offer, maybe fix that problem first.

Switzerland is a very different market to Ireland, being in the middle of Europe and multiple languages spoken, they can accesss/expect TV from all their European neighbors and can even have better access to UK TV than we can.

Ireland's cable and satellite became very UK focused once Sky left the Astra pan European analogue system, they switched to a dedicated digital Astra satellite focused on the UK. Cable services here followed offering mainly just UK and Irish tv. Even as is there are complications with ITV channels in Ireland due to broadcasting rights and Channel 5 have zero interest in offering any of their channels or services here. Oddly enough they have no problem offering them in Switzerland.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 25-04-2018 03:54PM

The anatomy of an Impetus thread:

*Play Swiss national anthem*

You potato eating savage micks don't have a clue about anything. It surprises me constantly that you manage to remember to breathe to stay alive.

*Celine Dion interlude*

Have I relentlessly told you how great a certain Alpine country is? It really is much better than Ireland.

*Free Toblerones for everyone*

turbbo · 25-04-2018 04:13PM

So the reason we're not multilingual is because we don't have enough foreign channels - last time I checked TG4 hasn't miraculously turned around the slide of the gaelic language in ireland? Maybe the fact that Switzerland borders countries with different languages might have something to do with it. Total twoddle that 10gb connections are gonna change the dominance of english in ireland.

Ultimanemo · 25-04-2018 07:26PM

Yous Should be more concerned about the staff he is going to fire.

Marlow · 27-04-2018 01:57PM

Well .. SIRO are already testing 10 Gbit/s symmetric on GPon technology.

Having said that, it's a crap idea to offer a product at a speed that means that one user in a segment can blow the top of your entire capacity for that segment.

That's like what mobile operators do.

And when it comes to OpenEIR ... they've already issues delivering 10gig circuits to their operators within a reasonable timeframe. Only 2 exchanges nationwide offer 100gig circuits.

Never mind delivering that sort of product to end customers.

Ireland is actually not bad off. Standard FTTH packages in most countries are much lower speeds (like 80, 100 or 120 Mbit/s).

/M

9726_9726 · 28-04-2018 05:19PM

Marlow wrote: »

Well .. SIRO are already testing 10 Gbit/s symmetric on GPon technology.

Having said that, it's a crap idea to offer a product at a speed that means that one user in a segment can blow the top of your entire capacity for that segment.

That's like what mobile operators do.

And when it comes to OpenEIR ... they've already issues delivering 10gig circuits to their operators within a reasonable timeframe. Only 2 exchanges nationwide offer 100gig circuits.

Never mind delivering that sort of product to end customers.

Ireland is actually not bad off. Standard FTTH packages in most countries are much lower speeds (like 80, 100 or 120 Mbit/s).

/M

To be fair, if you gave 1000 res customers a 10Gb connection each, they'll only draw the same aggregate bandwidth as if you gave them 1Gb each. Or 300M.

Marlow · 28-04-2018 06:40PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

To be fair, if you gave 1000 res customers a 10Gb connection each, they'll only draw the same aggregate bandwidth as if you gave them 1Gb each. Or 300M.

That's not the point. The issue is, that if one customer can max out your connectivity, then you're (as a provider/carrier) in trouble.

You basically can't manage contention properly at that point.

/M

KildareP · 28-04-2018 10:35PM

Would love to see some traceroute's both within and out of the country on it.

The headline speed into the premises is only half the battle.

Let's just say it's always interesting how a 100Mb Eir line and a 400Mb Virgin Media line stack up against each other in different scenarios, the results are far from what you might assume based on the headline speed alone...

Marlow · 28-04-2018 11:20PM

KildareP wrote: »

Would love to see some traceroute's both within and out of the country on it.

The headline speed into the premises is only half the battle.

Let's just say it's always interesting how a 100Mb Eir line and a 400Mb Virgin Media line stack up against each other in different scenarios, the results are far from what you might assume based on the headline speed alone...

That part of the equation most consumers don't understand at all.

There's ISPs out there, that give a great deal about quality upstream. And then there's ISPs, that aren't even on the Internet Exchanges.

But that's not great for marketing to the big grey mass of consumers. Power users and business clients do understand this though.

/M

Bob24 · 28-04-2018 11:32PM

Niel actually invested as little as possible in his home network in France and has that kind of ISP whereby the speeds you see on Speedtest.net mean nothing because the core network and links to the internet are all throttled/congested for various types of traffic. He also didn’t invest much in fiber and left Orange do all the deployments work.

So In short what I’m saying: expect him to cut costs and make Eircom cheaper to use for consumers. But don’t expect anything it terms of improving the speed and quality of service for broadband in Ireland.

Marlow · 28-04-2018 11:35PM

Bob24 wrote: »

So In short what I’m saying: expect him to cut costs and make Eircom cheaper to use for consumers. But don’t expect anything it terms of improving the speed and quality of service for broadband in Ireland.

Imagine, Vodafone and Sky aren't an inch better. The snow days gave us the biggest usage in Ireland we've seen in a long time.

And see, who got contended to foooook.

/M

Bob24 · 28-04-2018 11:39PM

Marlow wrote: »

Imagine, Vodafone and Sky aren't an inch better. The snow days gave us the biggest usage in Ireland we've seen in a long time.

And see, who got contended to foooook.

/M

Oh yeah I’m not saying they’re better. I’m just saying expect Eir to get worse. If it’s anything like what Niel did on the French market, people will love it at first because he will undercut all the others and force them to reduce prices as well. But after a few years they’ll realise that this was done at the cost of reducing investment in the infrastructure and quality of service is dropping.

Marlow · 28-04-2018 11:43PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Oh yeah I’m not saying they’re better. I’m just saying expect Eir to get worse. If it’s anything like what Niel did on the French market, people will love it at first because he will undercut all the others and force them to reduce prices as well. But after a few years they’ll realise that this was done at the cost of reducing investment in the infrastructure and quality of service is dropping.

I don't think he can do much worse, than Eir already are doing.

Eir are actually not cheap ... only to new customers and only in the first 6 months. .... maybe ....

Then there's the issue with customer service and billing. It's a nightmare.

So ... he can actually only improve things.

And the fun part is, that there's plenty of other infrastructure around and being build in the areas, that he's focusing on. He'll just help SIRO and Virgin to get a better foothold

From May 1st, SIRO Gigabit FTTH is getting real cheap for irish standards.

/M

ED E · 28-04-2018 11:52PM

Marlow wrote: »

Then there's the issue with customer service and billing. It's a nightmare.

They were penny wise pound foolish when they transitioned billing platform and have been getting raked over hot coals for it every day since. CS might actually be mediocre if it werent for that.

There's lots of room for improvement in there, I say wait and see how they do.

Marlow · 29-04-2018 12:00AM

ED E wrote: »

They were penny wise pound foolish when they transitioned billing platform and have been getting raked over hot coals for it every day since. CS might actually be mediocre if it werent for that.

There's lots of room for improvement in there, I say wait and see how they do.

They went penny pinching on their billing system and didn't pay for a proper reports engine. I know some of the people that deal with that side of things in retail.

As a result, they don't even know what's going on on the billing side. Eir retail currently has 5 billing systems and you never know, which one you end up in.

There's lots of cases, where customers actually cost them money, after they wrongful billed them.

The money management is extremely poor. I believe the wholesale arm is the only thing, that may turn an actual profit. Maybe Eir mobile/Meteor, but they'll destroy that soon, too.

/M

Bob24 · 29-04-2018 07:45AM

Marlow wrote: »

I don't think he can do much worse, than Eir already are doing.

Eir are actually not cheap ... only to new customers and only in the first 6 months. .... maybe ....

Then there's the issue with customer service and billing. It's a nightmare.

So ... he can actually only improve things.

And the fun part is, that there's plenty of other infrastructure around and being build in the areas, that he's focusing on. He'll just help SIRO and Virgin to get a better foothold From May 1st, SIRO Gigabit FTTH is getting real cheap for irish standards.

/M

Trust me he can do worse (I have personal experience using both and have good knowledge of the history of France’s telecoms market).

For exemple Eir seems to have decent data speeds on their core network. For years, Free’s customers (Free is the name of Niel’s ISP in France) basically couldn’t use YouTube because their peering with Google was voluntarily undersized and constantly saturated (similar to what Virgin Media had with Netflix here a while back, except it was more pronouced and lasted for years rather than months).

As I said he might shake up the market in terms of prices and reduce broadband cost in Ireland though.

KildareP · 29-04-2018 08:38AM

Seems it will be as feared so - sell on the headline speed and price and slash costs in the core network peering

And unfortunately, it seems to work if you look at the mobile sector.

After all, people are all over 3's "4G" All You Can Eata, despite the fact it is as good as useless at peak times, because its a "great deal" compared to everyone elses "limited" data bundles.

People are happy to put up with Tesco's lack of 4G and dwindling 3G coverage because it is so cheap.

And Eir and Vodafone are starting to follow suit to compete, with the natural side effects of that starting to become apparent in many areas, rather than try compete via other means.

.G. · 29-04-2018 08:46AM

Kenya Bitter Shootout wrote:

*Free Toblerones for everyone*

I'm here for this part.

Bob24 · 29-04-2018 08:47AM

KildareP wrote: »

And Eir and Vodafone are starting to follow suit to compete, with the natural side effects of that starting to become apparent in many areas, rather than try compete via other means.

Exactly, the problem is that in the long run it affects the whole industry and reduces quality of service accros the board.

In every market I think there is space for one entity which unapologetically charges higher (but reasonable) prices and delivers significantly better service though. In France Orange has taken that stance to compete with Niel’s company and it has worked very well for them. It just took several years for them (and the public) to adjust to the new reality of the maket with a period whereby it was just a race to the bottom both in terms of prices and quality of service.

Bob24 · 29-04-2018 09:36AM

And actually to illustrate what we are saying Netflix's ISP index is worth a look:
- Eir in is the middle/top of the pack in Ireland with fairly decent and stable speeds to Netflix
- Free is clearly at the very bottom of the pack in France with slower and more unstable speeds than Eir here

(and that is in spite of Eir operating mostly DSL service in a fairly small market with geographically widespread customer base, while Free is operating a mix of DSL and fibre in a much more densely populated country and a larger market whereby it is easier to deliver fast speeds)

Gonzo · 29-04-2018 11:11AM

I've yet to read something that isn't negative about Niel taking over Eir. It's all bad news.

Eir have always had alot of issues but if your lucky enough to have decent internet from them and no billing/customer service issues then they are fairly decent as their network currently is very good.

If that goes because Niel wants to cut corners and make the service cheaper and more profitable, then Eir have nothing left and we will have no option but to change provider.

Cuddlesworth · 30-04-2018 12:48PM

Population density
Switzerland = 212 sq. Km
Ireland = 68 sq. Km

Road density :Km of road per 100 sq. km of land area
Switzerland = 172.85
Ireland = 132

So we have roughly 33% of the population density but 75% of the road density.

At a guess, I would say that if you did a heatmap of Switzerland you would find the vast majority of people live in or right around towns like its neighbouring county's. Meanwhile in Ireland....

So its understandable that that providing a 10 gig service to Ireland would be significantly more expensive in terms of installation and operating costs. To a operator that is well behind in its infrastructure already.

Marlow · 30-04-2018 12:53PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

So its understandable that that providing a 10 gig service to Ireland would be significantly more expensive in terms of installation and operating costs. To a operator that is well behind in its infrastructure already.

Not really. The current FTTH rollout can be upgraded to 10gig without any problems.

It just takes a sh!tload of ONTs, OLTs and NGN hardware upgrades.

Now .. the VDSL covered areas .. that's an entire different problem.

But yes .. the shortcuts, the OpenEIR has made in the past ... and lack of investment in the network ... will haunt them and prevent such things from happening any time soon.

/M

Cuddlesworth · 30-04-2018 01:26PM

Marlow wrote: »

Not really. The current FTTH rollout can be upgraded to 10gig without any problems.

It just takes a sh!tload of ONTs, OLTs and NGN hardware upgrades.

Now .. the VDSL covered areas .. that's an entire different problem.

But yes .. the shortcuts, the OpenEIR has made in the past ... and lack of investment in the network ... will haunt them and prevent such things from happening any time soon.

/M

I'm not saying that the fibre can't go to 10gig(although its not just a simple matter of some transceiver swaps). Its that the simple cost of installing the network in the first place is significantly more expensive. Which has to be paid off.

Marlow · 30-04-2018 01:29PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its that the simple cost of installing the network in the first place is significantly more expensive. Which has to be paid off.

Well, that's what I referred to with a sh!tload of NGN upgrades. OpenEIR can't even deliver 10gig ports to wholesale partners in a timely manner.

Never mind delivering a 10gig residential product.

Only 2 exchanges (total) offer 100gig ports (City West and Clonshaug). And that's a recent development.

/M

ED E · 30-04-2018 01:31PM

Their CPE budget would need to be about 600% of what it currently is as a start before you even got to the CO or core.

Can we stop feeding troll threads perhaps? Ireland isn't Singapore and Impy is just a little fella the fell off the side of a 90's bus.

Marlow · 30-04-2018 01:32PM

Muhahahhaha.

turbbo · 30-04-2018 03:05PM

ED E wrote: »

Their CPE budget would need to be about 600% of what it currently is as a start before you even got to the CO or core.

Can we stop feeding troll threads perhaps? Ireland isn't Singapore and Impy is just a little fella the fell off the side of a 90's bus.

Think you mean Ireland isn't Switzerland.
You are paradoxically "feeding the troll" by commenting again on this thread - so am I btw. It's entertaining, how long will a thread like "10 GB Internet from Eir?" keep going? The broadband boards are pretty boring at the moment - not much happening in either of the rollouts and not many people moaning or praising, I wonder is the interest in the rollouts waning? Or as people have mentioned uptake being very poor are we as a nation fed up of poor telecoms service? Maybe we're now happy enough to while away the time on rubbish wireless connections - until eventually the NBP spends some of the 500 million on some actual infrastructure?

ED E · 30-04-2018 03:07PM

I meant Singapore - its the residential internet capital of the world.

10 GB Internet from Eir?

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