The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

gmisk · 28-04-2018 10:40AM

https://twitter.com/eilistweets/status/990004359319695361?s=19

You would think if the save the 8th side are putting this lady front and centre she would at least decide what her story is?

28-04-2018 10:40AM

Robert, you seem to have some kind of vendetta against Peter Boylan, an expert in the field of maternal care who has seen first hand the problems the 8th causes. Why do you persist in calling him a liar when he's presenting factual evidence?

RobertKK · 28-04-2018 10:41AM

January wrote: »

What?

When a woman is suicidal because she is pregnant then ending that pregnancy will treat the suicidal thoughts. Forcing her to remain pregnant and locking her up against her will and force feeding her doesn't help.

It's not the same as introducing the death penalty for abusers.

Really?
Abortion made the girl at the the center of the C case suicidal, where she states abortion was worse than the rape.
https://amp.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/ccase-mum-i-grieve-for-my-lost-baby-every-day-29241584.html

Sofiztikated · 28-04-2018 10:42AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21

Given that I haven't watched the LLS, I won't argue with you on this.

However, given your propensity for saying something is a lie when its not, you'll have to forgive me for being dubious.

RobertKK · 28-04-2018 10:43AM

Flying Fox wrote: »

Robert, you seem to have some kind of vendetta against Peter Boylan, an expert in the field of maternal care who has seen first hand the problems the 8th causes. Why do you persist in calling him a liar when he's presenting factual evidence?

So he states last December that Irish maternity care is better than the UK.
Let’s remember then when he states a different position to support Yes. I doubt we had lots of women dying in pregnancy over the past four months.

kylith · 28-04-2018 10:46AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Really?
Abortion made the girl at the the center of the C case suicidal, where she states abortion was worse than the rape.
https://amp.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/ccase-mum-i-grieve-for-my-lost-baby-every-day-29241584.html

You mean the girl who didn’t know what was happening and who didn’t have a CHOICE in the matter?

swampgas · 28-04-2018 10:48AM

RobertKK wrote: »

So he states last December that Irish maternity care is better than the UK.
Let’s remember then when he states a different position to support Yes. I doubt we had lots of women dying in pregnancy over the past four months.

Maternity care statistics and abortion statistics are not clear in Ireland. But anyone with a brain in their head can see that Savita would be alive had the 8th not been in place, and that would have made the statistics even better.

Anyhow, I don't think you understand the concept of facts. You shouldn't just pick and choose the ones you like and ignore all those other ones that destroy your emotionally held position on abortion.

28-04-2018 10:49AM

RobertKK wrote: »

So he states last December that Irish maternity care is better than the UK.
Let’s remember then when he states a different position to support Yes. I doubt we had lots of women dying in pregnancy over the past four months.

He hasn't changed his position or told lies. He's saying that Ireland has a good safety record compared with the UK and US, but that doesn't mean we can't improve. The level of deaths are low, but there are legitimate concerns in the way pregnant women are treated in this country because of the 8th. Women have died because of it, and more would have died if they didn't have the option to go to the UK.

Killester1 · 28-04-2018 10:51AM

bubblypop wrote: »

He didn't hang around too long, so I can't ask him

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

Bannasidhe · 28-04-2018 10:52AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
I trust older women who have life experience.

My mother and her sisters - ages range from 83 to 76 - with 13 children and who knows how many grand-children/great grandchildren between them are all radically pro-choice. Indeed, they all believe men shouldn't even be allowed to vote on this, I disagree with them on that.

Their life experience has led them to their pro-choice views - because they had no choices.

Wrongway1985 · 28-04-2018 10:58AM

Killester1 wrote: »

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

Are you sure you never asked your mother?

swampgas · 28-04-2018 10:58AM

Killester1 wrote: »

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

Nope. You're alive because you're alive. You mother might have had a miscarriage, and then you wouldn't be here either.

You being grateful for being alive shouldn't mean that someone else, a woman or a girl who finds herself pregnant, should be forced to continue a completely separate pregnancy to the one that created you.

groovyg · 28-04-2018 11:02AM

kylith wrote: »

You mean the girl who didn’t know what was happening and who didn’t have a CHOICE in the matter?

Anti abortion groups got got involved in that C case as well
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/judge-jails-c-case-rapist-for-dreadful-evil-act-26165826.html

pitifulgod · 28-04-2018 11:02AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21

Addressed in responses.

https://twitter.com/Fedigan7/status/990131559792611333?s=19

mohawk · 28-04-2018 11:04AM

threescompany wrote: »

Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

This sounds far fetched. Women tend not to tell others they have had an abortion. Read in her shoes stories if you don't believe me. I don't believe there are women opening up to a pro-lifer and then saying they didn't use contraception. I don't see mention of men in this post either. Should both parties not discuss contraception prior to sex?

The tone of this post is very much punish those irresponsible women.

Pherekydes · 28-04-2018 11:05AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
I trust older women who have life experience.

They will no longer be affected by the 8th.

Those most unaffected by the 8th want to keep it the most.

PhoenixParker · 28-04-2018 11:08AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21

If your only measure of good maternal outcome is "the mother didn't die" then Ireland performs pretty well. How well, I'm admittedly a little suspicious of because there are differences in how different countries count their statistics.

Personally "mother didn't die" is not a satisfactory measure. I happen to think things like long term health impacts on the mother are also very important. Congrats you survived, sorry about the blindness, isn't exactly a great result.

Further our maternal mortality rate is achieved in the context of most women whose health or life is in danger being able to access abortion albeit by travelling to the UK. Lauding excellent maternal mortality statistics in the context of that safety valve is suspect at best.

WinnyThePoo · 28-04-2018 11:11AM

Killester1 wrote: »

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

I'm adopted and pro choice.

Killester1 · 28-04-2018 11:12AM

swampgas wrote: »

Nope. You're alive because you're alive. You mother might have had a miscarriage, and then you wouldn't be here either.

You being grateful for being alive shouldn't mean that someone else, a woman or a girl who finds herself pregnant, should be forced to continue a completely separate pregnancy to the one that created you.

Why do you have more empathy for the woman and less for the unborn ? Just asking.

Igotadose · 28-04-2018 11:16AM

Killester1 wrote: »

Killester1 wrote: »

Igotadose wrote: »

What study was this? Could you send the link? Anybody I know that had an abortion .... regret it to this day and the loss has played havoc with their minds.

Many. Heres one https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health

Google abortion regret see what you find.

The women I know all say the overwhelming emotion is relief

January · 28-04-2018 11:16AM

Killester1 wrote: »

Why do you have more empathy for the woman and less for the unborn ? Just asking.

Because the woman already has a life and has lived for countless years before hand. Probably already has children who have lives. Why should the unborn have equal rights to the woman.

Killester1 · 28-04-2018 11:19AM

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Are you sure you never asked your mother?

It was the sixties. The uk were refusing Irish girls abortions due to the high volumes and sending them back home ....... where abortion wasn’t an option.

Killester1 · 28-04-2018 11:23AM

Igotadose wrote: »

Killester1 wrote: »

Many. Heres one https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health

Google abortion regret see what you find.

The women I know all say the overwhelming emotion is relief

Yeah and the women I know say differ ....

amdublin · 28-04-2018 11:28AM

Killester1 wrote: »

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

Is it a feeling or your mother actually wanted to have an abortion?

Anyway my mother could have been hit by a car when she was pregnant.

I'm here now. Like you. If i wasnt here id be none the wiser. Like you.

joe40 · 28-04-2018 11:31AM

Killester1 wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

He didn't hang around too long, so I can't ask him

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

If you were conceived as a result of a condom bursting, would you be opposing to contraception now.
It is an analagous "what if" scenario

NuMarvel · 28-04-2018 11:35AM

RobertKK wrote: »

No it is a consistent theme that People who state their position, that Yes has fallen under 50% and the thing is will this trend continue.
Even in the Irish Times today they were on the canvass scene in Cork city with both sides and the conclusion was it could go either way.

If you're looking at people who state their position, i.e. say whether they are voting yes or no, Yes consistently polls at the 60% mark.

The fact of the matter is that this poll is another big blow for the No campaign. They've had a much earlier start, because they were always going to campaign for a No, no matter what was going to be on the ballot paper. Yet this is the largest gain they've had; 4%. By any objective evaluation, given the amount of time and money they've spent on billboards, online ads, posters, and marches, that's a very poor result.

I absolutely agree it could go either way on the day, but that will be because of the type of campaign the Yes groups run, and it'll have little to do with No groups. If the Yes campaign keeps focused and runs a campaign along the lines of the debate last night, it'll pass.

Wrongway1985 · 28-04-2018 11:37AM

Killester1 wrote: »

It was the sixties. The uk were refusing Irish girls abortions due to the high volumes and sending them back home ....... where abortion wasn’t an option.

In a time when contraception wasn't available! Ultimately she didn't use unsavory methods to not have you either, while I appreciate your existence isn't it fair to say your reasoning is largely based on assumption especially when the 60s was prior to the 8th amendment so played no part in you personally being born anyway.

NuMarvel · 28-04-2018 11:43AM

Killester1 wrote: »

It was the sixties. The uk were refusing Irish girls abortions due to the high volumes and sending them back home ....... where abortion wasn’t an option.

It isn't the 60s anymore. In reality, abortion is an option today, and it will continue to be one after the referendum, no matter which way it goes.

The decision isn't if Irish women can access abortion, because they do it here and abroad. It's if they can access legal, and by extension, safe abortion here. And I have yet to hear a valid argument against that.

Bannasidhe · 28-04-2018 11:46AM

amdublin wrote: »

Is it a feeling or your mother actually wanted to have an abortion?

Anyway my mother could have been hit by a car when she was pregnant.

I'm here now. Like you. If i wasnt here id be none the wiser. Like you.

I shouldn't be here at all.

After my Mother nearly miscarried my brother she was told she shouldn't have any more children. But Ireland in the 60s .... so she had a miscarriage 2 years later. 3 1/2 years later accidental me came along. Turns out my Mother had cervical cancer, at the age of 36 she had to have a hysterectomy, chemo, and all the joys of cancer treatment in the 1970s to save her life. She'd had it when pregnant with my brother but her symptoms were dismissed by doctors.

I have lifelong medical issues as a result. I was born legally blind but thanks to a rare female consultant who took a chance with radical new experimental treatment and a determined Grandmother who refused to let the authorities put me in a home for the blind and walked 5 miles twice a day to the hospital (and paid for it) I gained some vision.

If, my Mother had aborted me I wouldn't know anything about it because I would never have existed, and if the doctors had listened to her originally I would never have been conceived in the first place and she wouldn't have suffered years of depression and mental health issues stemming from what she went through. She might have actually been happy and enjoyed her life. But she was never given any choices.

Moiratat · 28-04-2018 11:48AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is clear for the majority of older people that retain/No is the compassionate position to be on, who some on the Yes side have attacked with ageism comments.
I don’t know you, and it is not my place to judge you as an individual even if I did as to make out I am somehow perfect.
I think yes for compassion is a lie as most of the abortions would be healthy women aborting healthy unborn. I think a lot of older wise people would also see through this Yes slogan lie.

So my experience is invalid to you because of what I have learned from it? Do I not deserve compassion as I was a healthy woman and my baby was healthy too?

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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