The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

SusieBlue · 28-04-2018 12:05AM

kylith wrote: »

I bet Tubs didn’t pull her up on it.

She was a rambling eejit full of contradictions.

The Together for Yes woman who spoke about having to have her daughters ashes posted from the UK (!!!!) by courier after missing the funeral cos she couldn’t afford to travel back had me in tears.
I also noticed two woman sitting near her in the audience was crying at her story.

She was eloquent and to the point and measured. An excellent spokesperson for us. I wish I could thank her. I hope the Yes vote passes for her and her daughter Grace.

gmisk · 28-04-2018 12:23AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

She was a rambling eejit full of contradictions.

The Together for Yes woman who spoke about having to have her daughters ashes posted from the UK (!!!!) by courier after missing the funeral cos she couldn’t afford to travel back had me in tears.
I also noticed two woman sitting near her in the audience was crying at her story.

She was eloquent and to the point and measured. An excellent spokesperson for us. I wish I could thank her. I hope the Yes vote passes for her and her daughter Grace.

I wish I could like this more than once totally spot on.
Eloquent and to the point sums up the yes side tonight for me.

Wrongway1985 · 28-04-2018 12:28AM

lillycakes2 wrote: »

a HUGE lot of work needs to be done around sex education, that would solve a lot of the problem too. Having sex = possibility of having a baby .You can use contraception . You can make it work......Education is key here.........Not happening

While I agree the education well when I was going to school anyway was bare bones. No contraception has 100% success rate it would be great if things were that easy; people advocating no vote here were same people who said no one would have babies if contraception was made available in referendum now it's apparently being tossed around as a solution to keep this restrictive law in place??

SusieBlue · 28-04-2018 12:37AM

lillycakes2 wrote: »

a HUGE lot of work needs to be done around sex education, that would solve a lot of the problem too. Having sex = possibility of having a baby .You can use contraception . You can make it work......Education is key here.........Not happening

I’m sure the women who find themselves in the midst of a crisis pregnancy are aware that contraception exists.
They aren’t imbeciles.
4K abortions occur each year - are you saying it didn’t even dawn on that many women to maybe use a contraceptive?
The statistics show that the majority of those seeking a termination are doing so due to contraception failure.

It almost sounds patronizing to say ‘you can use contraception’ - it fails.
And either way, that advice is of no use to someone who is already experiencing a crisis pregnancy. That horse has bolted, so to speak.

sunbeam · 28-04-2018 12:59AM

amdublin wrote: »

Have any anti choicers watched The Handmaid's Tale I wonder. Does it unsettle them at all?? Make them think at all??

Like do you reckon Cora Sherlock or David Quinn sit down with a glass of wine to watch it of an evening.

I only started watching it late in the first season and then made sure I watched the double episode of the second series last night.

Like jaysis it really makes me think of the Catholic church when I watch it.

**Maybe the anti choicers SHOULD be watching it

I read the book as part of a college course in 1992 when we were about to vote on the freedom to travel and obtain information about abortion. Looking back, I'm horrified at the direction this country might have gone in if those amendments had not been passed.

I was 11 in 1983 and have lived my entire reproductive life under the shadow of the 8th. I am thankful that it has never directly impacted me but am saddened and angered by the stories I have read here and on the In Her Shoes Facebook page. I am still horrified by the Miss P case three years ago. No family should ever have been put through that.

I hope that repeal will happen but I expect the vote will be very close. We had No campaigners out here two weeks ago and large glossy Save The Eighth brochures left on the counter of our local pharmacy before Christmas, which were removed when I complained. Not a peep from the Yes side yet.

iguana · 28-04-2018 01:10AM

sunbeam wrote: »

Not a peep from the Yes side yet.

You have to remember, you are the Yes side. We're all just volunteers with very, very little financial backing.

threescompany · 28-04-2018 02:14AM

gmisk wrote: »

Repeal the 8th decent honest factual, save side aggressive evading or downright lies

Depends on your perspective...... I disagree there. I think the save the 8th did well & didn’t think they were aggressive at all

threescompany · 28-04-2018 02:23AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

That Save No girl sharing her story in the audience totally missed the point.
She CHOSE not to take the tablets ffs.

I believe her point was that she believes the very act of abortion is wrong...... she was going to have an abortion but after discussion and thinking about it, she didn’t and now she is so glad she didn’t...... she was trying to convey there are other CHOICES

threescompany · 28-04-2018 02:29AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I’m sure the women who find themselves in the midst of a crisis pregnancy are aware that contraception exists.
They aren’t imbeciles.
4K abortions occur each year - are you saying it didn’t even dawn on that many women to maybe use a contraceptive?
The statistics show that the majority of those seeking a termination are doing so due to contraception failure.

It almost sounds patronizing to say ‘you can use contraception’ - it fails.
And either way, that advice is of no use to someone who is already experiencing a crisis pregnancy. That horse has bolted, so to speak.

Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

gctest50 · 28-04-2018 02:33AM

threescompany wrote: »

..................

why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

Why should we build motorways ? criminals use them for fast getaways

Moiratat · 28-04-2018 02:53AM

threescompany wrote: »

Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

And what about me? What were my choices? If you were me what would you have done?

Grayson · 28-04-2018 03:50AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I’m sure the women who find themselves in the midst of a crisis pregnancy are aware that contraception exists.
They aren’t imbeciles.
4K abortions occur each year - are you saying it didn’t even dawn on that many women to maybe use a contraceptive?
The statistics show that the majority of those seeking a termination are doing so due to contraception failure.

It almost sounds patronizing to say ‘you can use contraception’ - it fails.
And either way, that advice is of no use to someone who is already experiencing a crisis pregnancy. That horse has bolted, so to speak.

I'm fine with them saying you can use contraception so long as two things happen.

1) They actually support sex education and contraceptive access. There isn't a pro life group that does this as far as I know. They're all catholic groups so that's a no-no.
2) Supply a time machine so that someone can go back in time and avail of contraceptives. Because otherwise it's doing nothing to solve the situation, they're just saying "told you so.

Zubeneschamali · 28-04-2018 06:31AM

threescompany wrote: »

why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

Why should you block abortion for women whose contraception failed? Women with a FFA? Women who were raped or abused? Women whose health is at serious risk?

You would block safe, legal abortion for those cases just to punish these "bad girls" that had unsafe sex that you don't approve of?

And it doesn't even stop the "bad girls" since they have a Constitutional right to travel to England. But if you're too poor to travel, or in the care of the state in an institution, or in hospital already, or in Direct provision, well, you're screwed.

dudara · 28-04-2018 06:51AM

threescompany wrote: »

Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

“Many women choose not to”.

Wow, talk about judgemental, and an incorrect generalisation to boot.

You’d rather punish all women for the perceived mistakes of a few. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face

erica74 · 28-04-2018 07:00AM

threescompany wrote: »

I believe her point was that she believes the very act of abortion is wrong...... she was going to have an abortion but after discussion and thinking about it, she didn’t and now she is so glad she didn’t...... she was trying to convey there are other CHOICES

If a woman wants an abortion there is no other choice. If a woman doesn't want an abortion, there are other choices.

threescompany wrote: »

Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

How many women do you know who went to the UK for an abortion because they "took a risk"?
What difference does it make to you personally whether any woman anywhere has an abortion?

Sofiztikated · 28-04-2018 07:39AM

threescompany wrote: »

I believe her point was that she believes the very act of abortion is wrong...... she was going to have an abortion but after discussion and thinking about it, she didn’t and now she is so glad she didn’t...... she was trying to convey there are other CHOICES

Well, no.

That's like saying you have other choices after being pushed out of a plane.

Sure, you could choose not to fall, you could choose not to get on the plane, you could choose to grow wings, but they're not really a choice when you are reaching terminal velocity, and the ground is fast coming towards you.

There's only 2 choices when you are pregnant. Stay pregnant, or abort the pregnancy. And the second option isn't available.

Annasopra · 28-04-2018 07:46AM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I am 100% sure Repeal will pass now. I find it hard to find a serious No voter. Even people who are against abortion are pretty rational about the referendum and know the 8th is not working. And yes they are worried about post repeal legislation but they will put trust in the government.

I am not 100% sure at all. Canvassing shows quite a large number of dont knows. They could swing either way.

Annasopra · 28-04-2018 07:59AM

Aharddecision wrote: »

Will we get to vote on the legislation?

No. The oireachtas will. If the yes vote passes.

Annasopra · 28-04-2018 08:01AM

Aharddecision wrote: »

My problem is I feel uninformed as to what will actually happen after we vote yes.

If we vote yes

The constitution is changed
The Minister for health will propose new laws

Annasopra · 28-04-2018 08:07AM

reubenreuben wrote: »

Why is it always england, england, england when some are referring to abortion statistics/comparisons.

Its not the only country that has legal abortions you know.

Exactly. Switzerland has a similar model to what we propose and the numbers are low.

Annasopra · 28-04-2018 08:08AM

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different. Do you mind me asking the reasons for why they wanted to have abortions?

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

Studies have shoen that most women do not regret their abortions.

Annasopra · 28-04-2018 08:16AM

iguana wrote: »

You have to remember, you are the Yes side. We're all just volunteers with very, very little financial backing.

Exactly. Yes side groups all over welcome volunteer canvassers.

Achasanai · 28-04-2018 08:30AM

gmisk wrote: »

Repeal the 8th decent honest factual, save side aggressive evading or downright lies

I haven't watched it (will do when it's up on the Player), but noted the Twitter reaction from the usual suspects on the No campaign: it's all about how they have 'won' the argument. One in particular caught my attention: was it a mistake that the Yes side went 'all doctor'? Ffs, as if going for facts over hysteria is the way to go.

Laneyh · 28-04-2018 08:49AM

Achasanai wrote: »

I haven't watched it (will do when it's up on the Player), but noted the Twitter reaction from the usual suspects on the No campaign: it's all about how they have 'won' the argument. One in particular caught my attention: was it a mistake that the Yes side went 'all doctor'? Ffs, as if going for facts over hysteria is the way to go.

The no side snuck in lots of sly comments about stuff not relevant to the amendment or the proposed legislation.

Among the inaccuracies Wendy Grace stated that if the 8th was removed we'd never have a chance to change anything ever again.
This is untrue as legislation can always be overturned and if we the electorate don't like legislation we can vote out the legislators.

Also mentioned 1-4 babies aborted in Britain, Downs Syndrome, nameless faceless friends living with regret.

I know at the core they feel they are protecting the most vulnerable but the zealousness and sneakiness employed is unreal

January · 28-04-2018 09:36AM

threescompany wrote: »

I believe her point was that she believes the very act of abortion is wrong...... she was going to have an abortion but after discussion and thinking about it, she didn’t and now she is so glad she didn’t...... she was trying to convey there are other CHOICES

She was never going to have an abortion. She's said so live on TV before and that new part about ordering the pills is bull**** too. Why only mention it now and not ever before?

Check out @newsworthy_ie’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/773908732912730112?s=09

BTW I did not make this video so did not add the Dr evil part in at the end or condone it but its there so deal with it.

RobertKK · 28-04-2018 09:38AM

Headline with the Daily Mail poll.
“Abortion poll shock as Yes support falls...and No support gains”.
I haven’t seen the figures yet.

tretorn · 28-04-2018 09:43AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/people-before-profit-wants-abortion-as-early-and-as-late-as-needed-1.3476984

This is why I am afraid to vote Yes.

What is Brid Smyth really saying here, is she saying her party are happy to go with the twelve weeks for the first Dail term but then they want the time limit for abortion to be revised up to birth.

What if a Government ever need her support and she wants unlimited abortion, we have already if we repeal the 8th removed all the unborns rights so how do we stop their lives be sold for votes if Brid Smyth and company hold the balance of power.

We have already seen what Coveney did, he threw all his principles out the window whenpush came to shove.

At least Zappone and her gang have the courage of their convictions, I would like to ask Zappone too what limit she really wants on abortion, does she want to go further than twelve weeks too.

Zubeneschamali · 28-04-2018 09:44AM

The fact in the headline is hardly a shock, it's what everyone has predicted.

Perhaps the numbers are shocking.

Sofiztikated · 28-04-2018 09:46AM

tretorn wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/people-before-profit-wants-abortion-as-early-and-as-late-as-needed-1.3476984

This is why I am afraid to vote Yes.

What is Brid Smyth really saying here, is she saying her party are happy to go with the twelve weeks for the first Dail term but then they want the time limit for abortion to be revised up to birth.

What if a Government ever need her support and she wants unlimited abortion, we have already if we repeal the 8th removed all the unborns rights so how do we stop their lives be sold for votes if Brid Smyth and company hold the balance of power.

We have already seen what Coveney did, he threw all his principles out the window whenpush came to shove.

At least Zappone and her gang have the courage of their convictions, I would like to ask Zappone too what limit she really wants on abortion, does she want to go further than twelve weeks too.

Its really not.

Killester1 · 28-04-2018 09:48AM

Igotadose wrote: »

patrickSTARR wrote: »

I've read at least one study showing the majority of women that have abortions do NOT regret it. Nor are there any significant post procedure risks to the mental health of the woman.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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