If you could choose to never have been born, what would you choose?

An Ciarraioch · 27-04-2018 07:24PM

Cooper Rapid Sextet wrote: »

I can't think of any reason I could have for ever wishing I had never been born. There's no way 'nothingness' could be preferable to my life. My children and grandchildren are now a part of me, but more importantly I am a part of them. Could they have done all the good works they do if they didn't share my DNA?
Life can be hard for many at times but it's also beautiful and rich. Experiences, sensations, emotions and actions are all part of life. It's a treasure-trove of wonder and awe. Even in the most boring, stressful or depressing day there can be many moments that trump nonexistence.

Indeed - no matter how inconsequential a person might consider their life to have been, they've undoubtedly made an indelible impression on friends, family, neighbours, etc, so merely by existing they have had a lasting influence on this world. And if you've had the slightest portion of success either individually or being working as part of a team at any stage, that would have been impossible without your personal input.

Spency90 · 27-04-2018 08:18PM

100 percent would chose to never have been born.
My parents are both narcissists, my dad is a massive alcoholic and my mother is bat **** insane. My eldest brother is now a paranoid schizophrenic, has never and will never work. Growing up he bullied and tortured me and my siblings relentlessly.
My second brother cannot cope with social obligations and has no friends outside of his job.

My parents divorced when I was four and I have known nothing but chaos. Both my parents earned good money and they spent every single cent on themselves. Dad used to pretend every year he was still 21 years old, when he was in fact 45 with 4 kids. He had foreign holidays multiple times a year, was out partying and drinking 5 nights of the week, had girlfriends and prostitutes coming and going. He used to watch porn on the family computer in the living room WHILE HIS CHILDREN WERE IN THE SAME ROOM.
He stopped acknowledging/ speaking to me when I left childhood and went through puberty. I went school filthy, never washed, hair greasy, no lunch, falling alseep in class, fought with EVERY PERSON around me. Had no idea how to be a woman or what to expect. It's only looking back now that I can not believe that out of every single teacher I had, none of them reported me to social services. I was 6 stone when I was 16 standing at 5 foot 7. Every bone was sticking out, I was all sinew. He bought a holiday home in the Philippines around this time.

Mam used to leave us alone in her derelict countryside house in the middle of nowhere whenever she felt like it. Would wake up with her gone, no idea where she was or when she was coming back, no food in the fridge, no heating. The worst was when the rats came and would keep us awake at night scratching and rustling in the roof above us. Mam would deny it constantly saying it was birds, birds don't have claws and stay up all night running around. You know those extreme hoarders shows on TV? My mam is one of them. What no one ever talks about on that show is the stench. The overwhelming stench off piles and piles of old clothes, rotting sheets, dead rats decomposing in the walls, its beyond rancid. At one stage she went to Australia for a month because 'she always promised herself she would' and left me and my brother alone in that **** hole during one of the coldest winters in Mayo. I missed so much school.

I suffered mental, physical, emotional, medical and some sexual abuse. I left secondary school having no idea how to navigate the world. I find it so difficult to get on with or understand ppl. I'm quite sensitive and have been bullied often. I made no friends in Uni as I spent every waking moment trying to find work, going from three month contract to three month contract. The chronic stress made me have heart palpitations, constants sweats, insomnia. I couldn't comprehend that ppls parents PAID THEIR RENT. And then bought them clothes! AND also helped them out or gave them money when they needed it? Anxiety, depression, you name it I've got it! I've never had a proper relationship. I've never known love of any kind. I've been abused by the few men I've dated, I've been abused by managers, I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted numerous times in nightclubs.
To the men reading this, please stop shoving your hands between womens legs in nightclubs and then laughing, some of use will still be getting over the violation years later.

The worst part is how long I tolerated it for, when children are young, they internalise the abuse and see themselves as wrong and as deserving of it. I've tried to shake these thoughts. My dad instilled a huge sense of fear in us. Some ppl refer to walking on eggshells, I prefer saying it was like walking on broken glass and trying not to cut your feet. He presented a Mr. Perfect image around the town, but looking back now how on Earth could ppl see the same pisshead in the pub every night of the week and not wonder about his kids. He would go ballistic if we left a cup on the table, or a teaspoon in the sink for a second. That's how he controlled us, the great shame of speaking out or telling someone about what was going on.

I first attempted suicide at age 14 by trying to overdose on paracetamol tablets. You cannot imagine how much of a failure I felt when I woke up. I couldn't even top myself properly. I've never been able to get on with people. I've had huge anger problems my whole life. I've tried to kill myself twice a year on average and generally think about it on a weekly/monthly basis.
I hate being alive. I hate the endless struggle. I speak to no-one from my home town. I have no childhood friends. I have no friends from Uni. I will never own a house. I will never fool someone long enough into loving me or even finding me attractive.
I'm nearly 30 and I am decades behind people in terms of career, friendships, relationships, social skills, savings. Every year its a trial to eek out a survival, every next year is the year things will get better!

I've been to multiple counsellors and Pieta house but I always end up back here. I wish I could get relief, I wish the nightmare of life would end.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 27-04-2018 08:47PM

I'm grateful to be alive. Life has been hard and unforgiving but at least I got to experience it.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 27-04-2018 08:49PM

Spency90 wrote: »

100 percent would chose to never have been born.
My parents are both narcissists, my dad is a massive alcoholic and my mother is bat **** insane. My eldest brother is now a paranoid schizophrenic, has never and will never work. Growing up he bullied and tortured me and my siblings relentlessly.
My second brother cannot cope with social obligations and has no friends outside of his job.

My parents divorced when I was four and I have known nothing but chaos. Both my parents earned good money and they spent every single cent on themselves. Dad used to pretend every year he was still 21 years old, when he was in fact 45 with 4 kids. He had foreign holidays multiple times a year, was out partying and drinking 5 nights of the week, had girlfriends and prostitutes coming and going. He used to watch porn on the family computer in the living room WHILE HIS CHILDREN WERE IN THE SAME ROOM.
He stopped acknowledging/ speaking to me when I left childhood and went through puberty. I went school filthy, never washed, hair greasy, no lunch, falling alseep in class, fought with EVERY PERSON around me. Had no idea how to be a woman or what to expect. It's only looking back now that I can not believe that out of every single teacher I had, none of them reported me to social services. I was 6 stone when I was 16 standing at 5 foot 7. Every bone was sticking out, I was all sinew. He bought a holiday home in the Philippines around this time.

Mam used to leave us alone in her derelict countryside house in the middle of nowhere whenever she felt like it. Would wake up with her gone, no idea where she was or when she was coming back, no food in the fridge, no heating. The worst was when the rats came and would keep us awake at night scratching and rustling in the roof above us. Mam would deny it constantly saying it was birds, birds don't have claws and stay up all night running around. You know those extreme hoarders shows on TV? My mam is one of them. What no one ever talks about on that show is the stench. The overwhelming stench off piles and piles of old clothes, rotting sheets, dead rats decomposing in the walls, its beyond rancid. At one stage she went to Australia for a month because 'she always promised herself she would' and left me and my brother alone in that **** hole during one of the coldest winters in Mayo. I missed so much school.

I suffered mental, physical, emotional, medical and some sexual abuse. I left secondary school having no idea how to navigate the world. I find it so difficult to get on with or understand ppl. I'm quite sensitive and have been bullied often. I made no friends in Uni as I spent every waking moment trying to find work, going from three month contract to three month contract. The chronic stress made me have heart palpitations, constants sweats, insomnia. I couldn't comprehend that ppls parents PAID THEIR RENT. And then bought them clothes! AND also helped them out or gave them money when they needed it? Anxiety, depression, you name it I've got it! I've never had a proper relationship. I've never known love of any kind. I've been abused by the few men I've dated, I've been abused by managers, I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted numerous times in nightclubs.
To the men reading this, please stop shoving your hands between womens legs in nightclubs and then laughing, some of use will still be getting over the violation years later.

The worst part is how long I tolerated it for, when children are young, they internalise the abuse and see themselves as wrong and as deserving of it. I've tried to shake these thoughts. My dad instilled a huge sense of fear in us. Some ppl refer to walking on eggshells, I prefer saying it was like walking on broken glass and trying not to cut your feet. He presented a Mr. Perfect image around the town, but looking back now how on Earth could ppl see the same pisshead in the pub every night of the week and not wonder about his kids. He would go ballistic if we left a cup on the table, or a teaspoon in the sink for a second. That's how he controlled us, the great shame of speaking out or telling someone about what was going on.

I first attempted suicide at age 14 by trying to overdose on paracetamol tablets. You cannot imagine how much of a failure I felt when I woke up. I couldn't even top myself properly. I've never been able to get on with people. I've had huge anger problems my whole life. I've tried to kill myself twice a year on average and generally think about it on a weekly/monthly basis.
I hate being alive. I hate the endless struggle. I speak to no-one from my home town. I have no childhood friends. I have no friends from Uni. I will never own a house. I will never fool someone long enough into loving me or even finding me attractive.
I'm nearly 30 and I am decades behind people in terms of career, friendships, relationships, social skills, savings. Every year its a trial to eek out a survival, every next year is the year things will get better!

I've been to multiple counsellors and Pieta house but I always end up back here. I wish I could get relief, I wish the nightmare of life would end.

That's really tough, but I really believe you can turn things around- if you wish to do so

decky1 · 27-04-2018 08:52PM

jasus lads it's gone over my head, what's the question again.? wtf.?

GreeBo · 27-04-2018 08:55PM

It's an impossible question because no one has or indeed could ever have experience of the two options.

Non existence isn't a thing, is the absence of a thing.
You can't measure the absence of a thing that never existed.

Hence the question is illogical.
Imagine a colour that doesn't exist, how do you feel about it not existing?

Donald Trump · 27-04-2018 09:14PM

Your poll does not have option 3

3) Choose that Opening Posters of stupid threads would not have been born

:pac:

hatrickpatrick · 27-04-2018 09:22PM

I mean this is a deeply existential question - the crux of my take, for those who are viewing this from the "blissful, peaceful non-existence" angle is that without existing, you can't be aware of, or appreciate, the feeling of either bliss or peace. To experience the feeling of relaxation requires one to have a conscious existence to begin with - to take an easily relatable analogy, nobody actually experiences peace and relaxation while asleep, they experience in the moments before falling asleep and in the moments after waking up and feeling rested.

Therefore, I just can't see any positives to non-existence - but then I'm lucky in that although I've experienced depression and very occasional suicidal musings in my past, overall my personality type (ENFP) is generally more prone to optimism about the big picture even if the details are a bit sh!te. And when I say big picture, I really mean big picture, as in "I have an exam coming up which I'll probably fail, but holy sh!t isn't the Milky Way Galaxy just the most f*cking beautiful piece of celestial artwork, and don't get me started on those active quasars blazing billions of light years away".

I've often wondered how much one's perception of questions like these relies upon one's personality type, whether you go by the Myers-Briggs metric of one of the many other systems used to designate different types of people and different types of minds - from a work point of view, ENFP is associated with having a grandiose overall vision for a project, but not being the type of person to consult about the fine tuning or nitty gritty of it. So from that point of view, it makes sense that I tend to be more interested in the beauty of the universe at large than the individual experience of some of the sh!te contained within it.

Anyone else happen to know their personality type, and whether it might impact how they answer questions like these?

erica74 · 27-04-2018 09:27PM

I voted that I would have chosen to not exist. I have had a hard horrible life and it weighs on me. When I imagine never having existed, I feel light as a feather, like I can float away and be free.

Rubberchikken · 27-04-2018 09:31PM

To exist definitely.

sonic85 · 27-04-2018 09:31PM

For me personally it would have to be never existed. Never really fit in anywhere, socially awkward so have had very few friends or relationships so what's the point in life? Isn't that what life is supposed to be about? Forging links with people - lasting bonds that even if everything else goes to **** you'll still have people you can talk to laugh with and rely on? If you have none of that what's the point in existing. Living in a world of 6 billion people or so and feeling like you're alone. Worst feeling in the world

jace_da_face · 27-04-2018 09:55PM

The question is a good one and has been debated in much depth. Check out David Benatar, professor of philosophy at Cape Town university. He describes himself as an anti-natalist and has written such books as 'Better never to Have Been' examining this exact question. His argument is basically that it would be more humane to allow the human race to die out, because to exist is to suffer. Had you not existed you would not have suffered. You could equally say that had you not existed you would not have experienced joy also. But this he argues is irrelevant as if you didn't exist you would never have known that. He describes that particular aspect of the argument as an asymmetrical argument. This is the kind of logic only philosophy can tease out.

All that said, one thing is for sure. There certainly are many lives that have not been or are not worth living.

wexie · 27-04-2018 10:07PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Anyone else happen to know their personality type, and whether it might impact how they answer questions like these?

I'm one of the 'lucky' 2 or so % that is INTP (the logician)....and to be honest....it's not working out to well for me so far....but I think that's probably more to do with how I grew up rather than anything else.

And I'm not too sure whether or not it would impact on how I would answer the question (I haven't yet).

I seem to be one of the unfortunate few Wibbs was talking about for whom the drugs don't work

It's an ongoing struggle to try to make sense of the world and my place in it.

For the moment though I don't think I can bring myself to answer that I'd prefer to never have existed, that would mean abandoning all hope and giving up trying...

Bonzo Delaney · 27-04-2018 10:08PM

Look, load of bollox you're either here or you're not .
As Paul Brady once said "life is what you make it".
Get on with life onwards and upwards and enjoy the journey

NickNickleby · 27-04-2018 10:20PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

This place gets fcuking worse each time I log on.

Aha Barry, presumably that's a variation on "I think therefore I am".

If you had never existed, you wouldn't have had to put up with this sh*te.

I, on the other hand, am happy to have existed and to exist because I get to read these threads.

Of course, if the threads annoyed me, wouldn't I have been better to have never existed?

Or to exist, but boards.ie not to exist??

I have a headache.

Therefore , I exist.

_Dara_ · 27-04-2018 10:23PM

Cooper Rapid Sextet wrote: »

Life can be hard for many at times but it's also beautiful and rich. Experiences, sensations, emotions and actions are all part of life. It's a treasure-trove of wonder and awe. Even in the most boring, stressful or depressing day there can be many moments that trump nonexistence.

Since my terminal diagnosis, I'm not enjoying my life. Sometimes enjoyable things happen but now that I know I'm dying soon, life is simply not enjoyable for me any more. I will be taking my own life, once I figure it out. The combination of health problems and mental anguish is hell. And this diagnosis keeps throwing crap at you. It does not let up. And it's not going to lift, it's been three years. So for me, there is a point where life is too hard to enjoy it anymore and the sporadic nice experiences are not enough to make the hard times worth it. Yeah, bring on death. And I've had people say stuff to me about the beauty of life. I really have to struggle to not roll my eyes in front of them. Statistically, they will almost certainly have a normal life expectancy. Tis easy for them to say. What would they know? And anyone who tries to tell me I've been given a gift has been the recipient of a tongue-lashing.

Just wanna say to anyone reading this, this isn't a cry for help and I'm not looking for advice. In fact, advice not welcome.

NickNickleby · 27-04-2018 10:32PM

On a somewhat serious note, I saw a priest on telly years ago. He was saying that despair is not an option, and that in some parts of the world where people live lives of abject squalor and poverty for generation after generation, even they don't think "ah why allow new born children to live, they're just going to live lives of abject...etc etc". But they never do. Why? Perhaps because hope is stronger than despair. But if I could remember EXACTLY he said, its more likely he used the word 'faith'.

I always say that bad as things can get, some sort of relief will come eventually, even if that is in the form of acceptance of the situation. Sounds a bit trite when I see it written, but I could not advocate an alternative. To believe (or think you know) there's no hope, means accept it or............

I cannot even contemplate the other side of that coin. even if it is as clean as "to have never existed"

Apologies for the timing of my posts - the opening line of this one was in reference to my own previous post immediately above yours.

Wibbs · 27-04-2018 10:36PM

Spency90 wrote: »

100 percent would chose to never have been born....

Christ Spency.

I dunno what to say. What could I say. Anything I could say would be just another line in empty platitudes that you've heard already. FWIW I feel for you. And I know it's not worth much in the saying.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Anyone else happen to know their personality type, and whether it might impact how they answer questions like these?

I'm ENTP apparently. The "inventor". Dunno how it would inform my answer though? Maybe the whole "can see possibilities" thing? So more likely to adopt a wait and see attitude? And use too many "?"

jace_da_face wrote: »

The question is a good one and has been debated in much depth. Check out David Benatar, professor of philosophy at Cape Town university. He describes himself as an anti-natalist and has written such books as 'Better never to Have Been' examining this exact question. His argument is basically that it would be more humane to allow the human race to die out, because to exist is to suffer. Had you not existed you would not have suffered. You could equally say that had you not existed you would not have experienced joy also. But this he argues is irrelevant as if you didn't exist you would never have known that. He describes that particular aspect of the argument as an asymmetrical argument. This is the kind of logic only philosophy can tease out.

Well... maybe Jace. Though philosophy has too often both descended down the rabbit hole and gone up it's own arse in ever circular displays of semantic nonsense. Take this bit: You could equally say that had you not existed you would not have experienced joy also. But this he argues is irrelevant as if you didn't exist you would never have known that. It also makes his argument about suffering irrelevant. Sounds like a navel gazer who has already decided the result of his personal thought experiment and just looks for the means to prove what he already believes. Which is fine, but Plato he ain't.

One could also argue that human beings are the only creature we know of and may ever know of that have come to the point of realising their own existence in a largely unconscious universe. That, right there is special. More, we have taken that and have attempted to explain the reality of the universe itself. And succeeded in many ways. That's even more special. Indeed the very question of this very thread and the social enquiring mind and tech and stuff we've created is itself a perfect expression of our specialness in the universe.

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Look, load of bollox you're either here or you're not .
As Paul Brady once said "life is what you make it".
Get on with life onwards and upwards and enjoy the journey

Oh there's much to that B. Though I would say - and this is only my own personal observation - that what mental insults like depression take away first is a sense of perspective and the enjoyment of anything, never mind the mundane, the joyful easy stuff becomes a void to be suffered through.

Malayalam · 27-04-2018 10:38PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Since my terminal diagnosis, I'm not enjoying my life. Sometimes enjoyable things happen but now that I know I'm dying soon, life is simply not enjoyable for me any more. I will be taking my own life, once I figure it out. The combination of health problems and mental anguish is hell. And this diagnosis keeps throwing crap at you. It does not let up. And it's not going to lift, it's been three years. So for me, there is a point where life is too hard to enjoy it anymore and the sporadic nice experiences are not enough to make the hard times worth it. Yeah, bring on death. And I've had people say stuff to me about the beauty of life. I really have to struggle to not roll my eyes in front of them. Statistically, they will almost certainly have a normal life expectancy. Tis easy for them to say. What would they know? And anyone who tries to tell me I've been given a gift has been the recipient of a tongue-lashing.

Just wanna say to anyone reading this, this isn't a cry for help and I'm not looking for advice. In fact, advice not welcome.

So sorry, Dara

No words really, you say the truth so well.

If there is any comfort in knowing that you sober us up every time you share your life, then know that.

Peace.

FizzleSticks · 27-04-2018 10:42PM

This post has been deleted.

Malayalam · 27-04-2018 10:43PM

Spency90 wrote: »

100 percent would chose to never have been born.
My parents are both narcissists, my dad is a massive alcoholic and my mother is bat **** insane. My eldest brother is now a paranoid schizophrenic, has never and will never work. Growing up he bullied and tortured me and my siblings relentlessly.
My second brother cannot cope with social obligations and has no friends outside of his job.

My parents divorced when I was four and I have known nothing but chaos. Both my parents earned good money and they spent every single cent on themselves. Dad used to pretend every year he was still 21 years old, when he was in fact 45 with 4 kids. He had foreign holidays multiple times a year, was out partying and drinking 5 nights of the week, had girlfriends and prostitutes coming and going. He used to watch porn on the family computer in the living room WHILE HIS CHILDREN WERE IN THE SAME ROOM.
He stopped acknowledging/ speaking to me when I left childhood and went through puberty. I went school filthy, never washed, hair greasy, no lunch, falling alseep in class, fought with EVERY PERSON around me. Had no idea how to be a woman or what to expect. It's only looking back now that I can not believe that out of every single teacher I had, none of them reported me to social services. I was 6 stone when I was 16 standing at 5 foot 7. Every bone was sticking out, I was all sinew. He bought a holiday home in the Philippines around this time.

Mam used to leave us alone in her derelict countryside house in the middle of nowhere whenever she felt like it. Would wake up with her gone, no idea where she was or when she was coming back, no food in the fridge, no heating. The worst was when the rats came and would keep us awake at night scratching and rustling in the roof above us. Mam would deny it constantly saying it was birds, birds don't have claws and stay up all night running around. You know those extreme hoarders shows on TV? My mam is one of them. What no one ever talks about on that show is the stench. The overwhelming stench off piles and piles of old clothes, rotting sheets, dead rats decomposing in the walls, its beyond rancid. At one stage she went to Australia for a month because 'she always promised herself she would' and left me and my brother alone in that **** hole during one of the coldest winters in Mayo. I missed so much school.

I suffered mental, physical, emotional, medical and some sexual abuse. I left secondary school having no idea how to navigate the world. I find it so difficult to get on with or understand ppl. I'm quite sensitive and have been bullied often. I made no friends in Uni as I spent every waking moment trying to find work, going from three month contract to three month contract. The chronic stress made me have heart palpitations, constants sweats, insomnia. I couldn't comprehend that ppls parents PAID THEIR RENT. And then bought them clothes! AND also helped them out or gave them money when they needed it? Anxiety, depression, you name it I've got it! I've never had a proper relationship. I've never known love of any kind. I've been abused by the few men I've dated, I've been abused by managers, I've been raped, I've been sexually assaulted numerous times in nightclubs.
To the men reading this, please stop shoving your hands between womens legs in nightclubs and then laughing, some of use will still be getting over the violation years later.

The worst part is how long I tolerated it for, when children are young, they internalise the abuse and see themselves as wrong and as deserving of it. I've tried to shake these thoughts. My dad instilled a huge sense of fear in us. Some ppl refer to walking on eggshells, I prefer saying it was like walking on broken glass and trying not to cut your feet. He presented a Mr. Perfect image around the town, but looking back now how on Earth could ppl see the same pisshead in the pub every night of the week and not wonder about his kids. He would go ballistic if we left a cup on the table, or a teaspoon in the sink for a second. That's how he controlled us, the great shame of speaking out or telling someone about what was going on.

I first attempted suicide at age 14 by trying to overdose on paracetamol tablets. You cannot imagine how much of a failure I felt when I woke up. I couldn't even top myself properly. I've never been able to get on with people. I've had huge anger problems my whole life. I've tried to kill myself twice a year on average and generally think about it on a weekly/monthly basis.
I hate being alive. I hate the endless struggle. I speak to no-one from my home town. I have no childhood friends. I have no friends from Uni. I will never own a house. I will never fool someone long enough into loving me or even finding me attractive.
I'm nearly 30 and I am decades behind people in terms of career, friendships, relationships, social skills, savings. Every year its a trial to eek out a survival, every next year is the year things will get better!

I've been to multiple counsellors and Pieta house but I always end up back here. I wish I could get relief, I wish the nightmare of life would end.

Very sorry to hear Spency. You are tremendously brave. Sending you love for just being a great warrior.

Wibbs · 27-04-2018 10:46PM

Stoneriver wrote: »

Before you die have a look at some Eckhart Tolle videos, the beauty of life comes from the stillness behind your thoughts.

Tolle is a chancer, a mountebank, a philosophical quack of the highest fucking order. A cut price Bodhisattva for his audience of chronically well, couch dwelling, Oprah consuming, trans fatted brains, suburban American "moms" who bought wholesale into The Secret, but doesn't bare the weight of even the most unschooled of questioners. Actually I'm swaying into the area of being fucking angry that you would post that twat as a response to D's post. Seems like basic bloody cop on of actual realities aren't part of his "teachings".

Malayalam wrote: »

So sorry, Dara

No words really, you say the truth so well.

If there is any comfort in knowing that you sober us up every time you share your life, then know that.

Peace.

+1000

jace_da_face · 27-04-2018 10:47PM

Stoneriver wrote: »

Before you die have a look at some Eckhart Tolle videos, the beauty of life comes from the stillness behind your thoughts.

I tried to read 'The Power of Now'. I just could not follow it at all

Malayalam · 27-04-2018 10:50PM

I spent more than 10 years struggling with terrible life altering anxiety to the point of not leaving the house in all those years and sometimes not being able to move for months - I chose not to take meds and to try unravel the torment. It was beyond awful but I always wanted to be alive. I find this planet and a human life to be shockingly beautiful. I love nature and my family and learning new things all the time. I chose to be.

Malayalam · 27-04-2018 10:51PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Tolle is a chancer, a mountebank, a philosophical quack of the highest fucking order. A cut price Bodhisattva for his audience of couch dwelling, Oprah consuming, suburban American "moms" who bought wholesale into The Secret, but doesn't bare the weight of even the most unschooled of questioners.

+1000

Yes. Eckhart Tolle is a pain in the hole.

Bonzo Delaney · 27-04-2018 11:02PM

Oh there's much to that B. Though I would say - and this is only my own personal observation - that what mental insults like depression take away first is a sense of perspective and the enjoyment of anything, never mind the mundane, the joyful easy stuff becomes a void to be suffered through.[/QUOTE]

I honestly think depression needs a falcilatator
to fester and take over a vulnerable mind ie: someone to agree with the depressants point of view to feed the depression . I believe in the glass is half full philosophy and if you project that train of thought even in the toughest of situations it'll see you through it .

I feel for -darra- something that's never visited my door
Thankfully,but buy picking out the positvies in their life so far will help them get through what they have to deal with presently

wexie · 27-04-2018 11:09PM

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

I honestly think depression needs a falcilatator
to fester and take over a vulnerable mind ie: someone to agree with the depressants point of view to feed the depression

I don't know, I think that might be a pretty simplistic way of looking at things.
Aside from the fact there is such a thing as biological depression (ie. something actually wrong with the brain that can be treated with medicine).

In some cases it's simply a having had to conform or adjust for so long that eventually something breaks. Only so much bend in a rod before it snaps.

I wouldn't argue with you though that those who see the glass as half full might have a better outlook on things though. Or a healthier one at least.

Mister Vain · 27-04-2018 11:09PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Anyone else happen to know their personality type, and whether it might impact how they answer questions like these?

I'm an architect which makes up only 2% of the population. I spend a lot of time inside my own head. I find romantic relationships completely suffocating. I'm oblivious to social norms and other practical aspects of life. Hmm...

Wibbs · 27-04-2018 11:14PM

Stoneriver wrote: »

Do you have any basis behind this opinion?

I freely used the term mountebank, you had to google it. Yes, I am an arrogant cunt. Both I find a terrible weakness and a terrible strength of personality.

Joking aside: Knowledge, experience, healthy cynicism and a well honed bullshit detector. Take your pick. Stop looking for gurus. The vast majority are just as fucked as you are, many are moreso, but have more polish and BS to cover it up.

jace_da_face · 27-04-2018 11:14PM

Well I see the usefulness of the mindfulness aspect. But some of the other arguments just did not convince me. Its been a while since I tried to read it but I think he made assertions about worrying being futile or it is pointless to think concerned about the future. I just can't be convinced about that.

If you could choose to never have been born, what would you choose?

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