Threatened reduction of contact hours in core subject

darksarcasm · 26-04-2018 06:56PM #1

I'm hoping someone can help answer a question for me.

My principal is thinking of cutting hours for one of our subjects at senior cycle and I'm wondering if there is a circular governing how much contact hours are set out per subject?

TheDriver · 26-04-2018 07:11PM

Usually in ncca syllabus docs. Threatened is a strong word to use?

darksarcasm · 26-04-2018 07:32PM

Thanks for that, I've had a look but haven't been able to locate a suggested hours yet. I'll keep hunting.

We were told another subject needed an additional class per week and its coming from our subject, without any prior consultation. So I'm wondering how to best fight our corner!

man_no_plan · 26-04-2018 08:31PM

darksarcasm wrote: »

Thanks for that, I've had a look but haven't been able to locate a suggested hours yet. I'll keep hunting.

We were told another subject needed an additional class per week and its coming from our subject, without any prior consultation. So I'm wondering how to best fight our corner!

What subject? Someone here would probably know the hours.

darksarcasm · 26-04-2018 10:06PM

I don't want to specify - as that might might me too identifiable. Of the core subjects - Maths, English, and Irish - do they all have the same recommended teaching time? Because one core subject is getting an additional class at the cost of another core subject.

TheDriver · 26-04-2018 10:09PM

Maths and English usually get more than Irish

rainbowtrout · 27-04-2018 06:58PM

darksarcasm wrote: »

I don't want to specify - as that might might me too identifiable. Of the core subjects - Maths, English, and Irish - do they all have the same recommended teaching time? Because one core subject is getting an additional class at the cost of another core subject.

If it's a core subject you are not identifiable as every school does them and I'd bet any money that Maths is getting an extra class at the expense of Irish.

In my school it's 5 classes for English, Irish and Maths in 5th year and in LC it's 5 for English and Irish and 6 for maths.

MathsManiac · 27-04-2018 09:55PM

Leaving Cert subjects are all designed to be delivered in 180 hours of class contact time (i.e., 90 hours per year).
But the actual timetabling is up to school management. The worst that can happen to them is that, if there's a subject inspection and the inspectors don't like what they see, there'll be a tut tut about it in the inspection report.

(Reference for 180-hour assertion: page 19 of this: https://www.ncca.ie/media/2511/towards_learning_an_overview.pdf)

Snapgal · 27-04-2018 11:39PM

TheDriver wrote: »

Maths and English usually get more than Irish

Why is maths given more preference? Extra points for doing higher level also causing many capable students to drop lower level in Irish .There is so much to cover on the Irish leaving Cert higher syllabus. Each core subject should be treated equally.

eeguy · 27-04-2018 11:46PM

Snapgal wrote: »

Why is maths given more preference? Extra points for doing higher level also causing many capable students to drop lower level in Irish .There is so much to cover on the Irish leaving Cert higher syllabus. Each core subject should be treated equally.

Why should they be equal? Many STEM and business courses demand higher maths. Are there any that demand higher Irish?

TheDriver · 27-04-2018 11:56PM

Snapgal wrote: »

Why is maths given more preference? Extra points for doing higher level also causing many capable students to drop lower level in Irish .There is so much to cover on the Irish leaving Cert higher syllabus. Each core subject should be treated equally.

the issue is that Irish is a compulsory subject but its debatable if its considered core as its a language like German/French etc. Its not that maths and english are over important in their own right but rather the literacy and numeracy core aspects.

r93kaey5p2izun · 28-04-2018 12:35AM

Maths is given more at senior cycle in every school I know. Six periods usually and sometimes seven! I know several Maths and Irish teachers and all feel the demands of the HL Maths course far outweigh those of the Irish course. English teachers don't agree, but the two English and Maths teachers I know feel that while the English course is very long, there's a lot more scope to cover some of the material outside class by assigning reading to be done at home.

doc_17 · 28-04-2018 10:00AM

Every school in the county has the poor HL Maths teacher staying in every week after school in a frantic attempt to cover the course and do revision. I’m not saying other subjects don’t do the same but with Maths it appears to be universal.

Added to the that there is no opportunity for coursework/orals to take the pressure off the importance of the exam.

Also Maths only has 2hrs 30 mins per paper and there is no choice on the exam unlike nearly (or perhaps every??) other subject.

I only have 5 Maths classes at senior cycle but I also have 5 Physics classes per week and I get through that course by Christmas in 6th year.

Maths needs all the time it can get.

joebloggs32 · 28-04-2018 07:25PM

doc_17 wrote: »

Every school in the county has the poor HL Maths teacher staying in every week after school in a frantic attempt to cover the course and do revision. I’m not saying other subjects don’t do the same but with Maths it appears to be universal.

Added to the that there is no opportunity for coursework/orals to take the pressure off the importance of the exam.

Also Maths only has 2hrs 30 mins per paper and there is no choice on the exam unlike nearly (or perhaps every??) other subject.

I only have 5 Maths classes at senior cycle but I also have 5 Physics classes per week and I get through that course by Christmas in 6th year.

Maths needs all the time it can get.

The maths teachers of ireland really need to stand up to the NCCA. You are right about nearly every school having to lay on extra maths outside of the timetable. It's farcical. A course that's deliverable within the recommended allocated timeframe should be devised.

mirrorwall14 · 28-04-2018 07:29PM

We only have 5 per week in senior cycle higher level maths. It causes a huge amount of stress for the teachers involved. Not to mention that almost every school around us is giving 6 or even 7 periods a week with some "interesting" timetabling such as Higher level not getting PE etc The comparison is pretty stark in terms of time. Even one extra period a week for the two years gives massive amounts more time for them to finish the course

doc_17 · 28-04-2018 10:25PM

It doesn’t cause me stress. I have informed management that this is the last year I will be staying behind weekly after school to deliver free work to make up for the the lack of proper allocation for Maths on the timetable.

They can do what they want with that and I’ll be grand ðŸ‘ðŸ»

tuisginideach · 28-04-2018 10:32PM

Snapgal wrote: »

There is so much to cover on the Irish leaving Cert higher syllabus.

5 poems, 1 play and 5 pieces of prose and everything else covered by the same vocabulary - Aistí, Trialacha Tuisceana, Cluasthuiscintí agsu Sraitheanna Pictiúr. In MY day - 20 poems, 6 books, Stair na Teanga and Stair na Litríochta and everything else bar the Sraitheanna! Now, that was a lot to cover.

darksarcasm · 01-05-2018 04:47PM

Thanks for all the information. It's really interesting to hear what's happening in different schools

Threatened reduction of contact hours in core subject

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