Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

irishbucsfan · 24-04-2018 10:34AM

launish116 wrote: »

Silly suggestion but we did have a scrum half/out half who left recently and who has had a year abroad, if hey came back it would severally alter anti Irfu undertone.

If the answer for fans is bringing in a 34 year old who is on the decline, when we heard about how bringing in a Leinster lad for a year or two is just kicking the can down the road, then it tells us all we need to know.

launish116 · 24-04-2018 10:44AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the answer for fans is bringing in a 34 year old who is on the decline, when we heard about how bringing in a Leinster lad for a year or two is just kicking the can down the road, then it tells us all we need to know.

All I know is Irfu are making suggestions for their benefit. Not Ulster’s or the players. Neither player are keen on a move and nor am I on forcing a player to play somewhere they arn’t Keen. Tbh you can’t blame them.

We’re also being told the year before the Rwc we’ll be scraping the barrel for anyone decent.

Leinster’s options aren’t the experienced hands we need! Albeit they’re exciting and young. A Ruan Pienarr player type is what we need till after the Rwc on the basis he’s here for guidance and not to become first choice. I think that’s a fair assessment, he may be declining but there’s no doubt what he would give for Ulster and I don’t hear many other names being quoted. I just can’t see the Leinster lads being the solution!

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:46AM

launish116 wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Carbery would be a great signing. With Piutau going and serious doubts over Payne we need a good full back.

That's the issue he wouldn't becoming for game time at 15! though. I'd be very happy with him playing there though.

I was only taking the p***.

FWIW I think he is a fine out half in the making. He doesn't seem to have the edge to his game that Sexton has, but then that isn't necessarily a pre requisite for a 10. Farrell has it too, but then I'm not sure Barrett does, although I haven't seen him play as much.

irishbucsfan · 24-04-2018 10:49AM

launish116 wrote: »

All I know is Irfu are making suggestions for their benefit. Not Ulster’s or the players. Neither player are keen on a move and nor am I on forcing a player to play somewhere they arn’t Keen. Tbh you can’t blame them.

We’re also being told the year before the Rwc we’ll be scraping the barrel for anyone decent.

Leinster’s options aren’t the experienced hands we need! Albeit they’re exciting and young. A Ruan Pienarr player type is what we need till after the Rwc on the basis he’s here for guidance and not to become first choice. I think that’s a fair assessment, he may be declining but there’s no doubt what he would give for Ulster and I don’t hear many other names being quoted. I just can’t see the Leinster lads being the solution!

Realistically, the only 10 the IRFU could offer Ulster who is better than (Carbery or Byrne) is Sexton. Both are considerably better than anyone Ulster have. How that is not to Ulster's benefit is completely beyond me.

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:49AM

awec wrote: »

sydthebeat wrote: »

in what way?

In that if we’re lucky we’ll be going in to the season pinning all our hopes on McPhillips.

Not a great situation.

If Carbery and Byrne say no then time for the IRFU to splash the cash even if it means paying over the odds. They created this mess.

But did the IRFU create this mess? If a major sponsor turns round and says of you don't sack them we will withdraw all our money then they are in a bit of a pickle. The blame for this situation lies elsewhere IMO but I'll keep my counsel on that.

molloyjh · 24-04-2018 11:08AM

bilston wrote: »

But did the IRFU create this mess? If a major sponsor turns round and says of you don't sack them we will withdraw all our money then they are in a bit of a pickle. The blame for this situation lies elsewhere IMO but I'll keep my counsel on that.

Yeah at the end of the day, regardless of what anyone things of the incident itself, the IRFU and UR had no choice. But I think awec just loves the auld blame game.

launish116 · 24-04-2018 11:09AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Realistically, the only 10 the IRFU could offer Ulster who is better than (Carbery or Byrne) is Sexton. Both are considerably better than anyone Ulster have. How that is not to Ulster's benefit is completely beyond me.

I just don’t agree with forcing unwilling players to move teams. As beneficial as the options are? How that tranfers to the pitch is the issue? Would be a completely different issue if they were like Cooney.

Hands Like Flippers · 24-04-2018 11:14AM

launish116 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Realistically, the only 10 the IRFU could offer Ulster who is better than (Carbery or Byrne) is Sexton. Both are considerably better than anyone Ulster have. How that is not to Ulster's benefit is completely beyond me.

I just don’t agree with forcing unwilling players to move teams. As beneficial as the options are? How that tranfers to the pitch is the issue? Would be a completely different issue if they were like Cooney.

Tbf if they were here I am sure they would give 100%. I think however they would quite possibly look to go back to Leinster and in the meantime the young OH's haven't had as many starts. When CL was here did MCP get many starts?

launish116 · 24-04-2018 11:20AM

Ye it’s finding the balance is gonna be issue! All hypothetically McPhilips even be here

irishbucsfan · 24-04-2018 11:21AM

launish116 wrote: »

I just don’t agree with forcing unwilling players to move teams. As beneficial as the options are? How that tranfers to the pitch is the issue? Would be a completely different issue if they were like Cooney.

Yeah, absolutely forcing unwilling players to move teams is one thing. But that’s absolutely not necessarily what would happen. There’s a difference between forcing a player and convincing a player to move in their own best interests.

launish116 · 24-04-2018 11:25AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, absolutely forcing unwilling players to move teams is one thing. But that’s absolutely not necessarily what would happen. There’s a difference between forcing a player and convincing a player to move in their own best interests.

Realistically we all see the shambles Ulster are presently! Can you see either player willingly wanting to leave? Or be strong arm persuaded? Which is a sad sight!

irishbucsfan · 24-04-2018 11:26AM

launish116 wrote: »

Realistically we all see the shambles Ulster are presently! Can you see either player willingly wanting to leave? Or be strong arm persuaded? Which is a sad sight!

Not currently. I wouldn’t go near Ulster until they have a coach sorted.

It’d be a disaster for a player like Carberry to be there if the new coach wants to play 10 man rugby for example.

But once that gets sorted then absolutely I think it’s an attractive option.

molloyjh · 24-04-2018 11:42AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not currently. I wouldn’t go near Ulster until they have a coach sorted and have secured Champions Cup rugby next season.

It’d be a disaster for a player like Carberry to be there if the new coach wants to play 10 man rugby for example.

But once that gets sorted then absolutely I think it’s an attractive option.

Fixed that for you. The CC bit is huge. Whatever about the mess the Ulster is in, getting regular game time in the Champions Cup would be a selling point. If Ulster miss out on that they'll find it much harder to attract a 10 in no matter who they are.

launish116 · 24-04-2018 11:43AM

Make you wonder if Ulster don’t get CC would Munster be there destination?

irishfan9 · 24-04-2018 11:47AM

launish116 wrote: »

Make you wonder if Ulster don’t get CC would Munster be there destination?

they aren't going anywhere.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 12:07PM

irishfan9 wrote: »

they aren't going anywhere.

Today. We're a long way from anything definite yet.

24-04-2018 12:36PM

Saying no to Carbery or Byrne because you want McPhillips to develop seems incredibly short-sighted. You're gonna need more than one 10 next year..

Buer · 24-04-2018 12:37PM

launish116 wrote: »

Make you wonder if Ulster don’t get CC would Munster be there destination?

With Johnston signing today, Munster now have 4 outhalves on the books for next season. They're not signing anyone.

thomond2006 · 24-04-2018 12:48PM

Buer wrote: »

With Johnston signing today, Munster now have 4 outhalves on the books for next season. They're not signing anyone.

Yup. Door closed. A two-year deal for Johnston despite injuries and a lack of senior appearances show confidence in him.

Hands Like Flippers · 24-04-2018 01:10PM

AdamD wrote: »

Saying no to Carbery or Byrne because you want McPhillips to develop seems incredibly short-sighted. You're gonna need more than one 10 next year..

Refer to previous pages please.

Former Former · 24-04-2018 01:15PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Today. We're a long way from anything definite yet.

The reality is that;

a) If Nucifora and Schmidt say that someone has to move, then someone has to move. We have heard nothing that contradicts the report that they want someone to move.

b) Ulster Rugby would take the hand off anyone who was offering them players of the calibre of Carbery or Byrne. Some of the Ulster fans here are absolutely delusional about that.

c) And, of course, Ulster don't even have a head coach to accept or push back on these moves, essentially Nucifora is in charge. So he'll be asking himself if he's on board with his own suggestion. I'd say he'll go along with it.

Faugheen · 24-04-2018 01:20PM

It's hard to imagine that Byrne and Carbery haven't been consulted on this, surely? Can they really go to Cullen and say pick one before both players have been spoken to by either the IRFU or Leinster?

Am I giving the IRFU too much credit in saying that?

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 01:26PM

Faugheen wrote: »

It's hard to imagine that Byrne and Carbery haven't been consulted on this, surely? Can they really go to Cullen and say pick one before both players have been spoken to by either the IRFU or Leinster?

Am I giving the IRFU too much credit in saying that?

I'm certain they've both been spoken to. As I said earlier, I heard Byrne was going back around Christmas. And that came from inside Leinster. So it was being spoken about back then. Perhaps only in an exploratory manner.

Fogarty said they won't let anyone go who doesn't want to. How hard is it to make someone want to go?

awec · 24-04-2018 01:35PM

Former Former wrote: »

The reality is that;

a) If Nucifora and Schmidt say that someone has to move, then someone has to move. We have heard nothing that contradicts the report that they want someone to move.

b) Ulster Rugby would take the hand off anyone who was offering them players of the calibre of Carbery or Byrne. Some of the Ulster fans here are absolutely delusional about that.

c) And, of course, Ulster don't even have a head coach to accept or push back on these moves, essentially Nucifora is in charge. So he'll be asking himself if he's on board with his own suggestion. I'd say he'll go along with it.

Who mentioned pushing back on it?

jacothelad · 24-04-2018 01:50PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, absolutely forcing unwilling players to move teams is one thing. But that’s absolutely not necessarily what would happen. There’s a difference between forcing a player and convincing a player to move in their own best interests.

That would be quite a feat in this regard. Persuading one of those guys that it is furthering their career by leaving the best side in Europe to move to a club that has a complete faker as CEO, a man who is despised by the players, a side with no current coaching team for next season, a side whose putative best players are Coetzee and Payne and both may never pull on the shirt again would be the work of a genius. I also doubt that either of the players are stupid enough to buy it. It actually would be o.k. for them. Things seem to be on the up and there are a lot of excellent players putting their hands above the parapet once they have given the chance. Cometh the hour cometh the players - if you are lucky.

Despite the horrendous season in losing Coetzee, Jackson, Payne, Olding and injuries to many others others, despite Kiss being absolutely inept selecting shockingly daft player combinations, side-lining Cave nearly all season and turning one of the best defences into the worst it's ever been, Ulster have recovered somewhat and have at least ended the season on a better note than could be expected. In conference B, they have only won 1 game less than Scarlets and 2 less than Leinster. Only Leinster have scored more points or more tries. I think, given the shambles of injuries, suspensions, dreadfully useless signings, side lining of players and the all pervasive malignancy of the trial and it's appalling aftermath, things could have been a lot worse.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 02:14PM

jacothelad wrote: »

That would be quite a feat in this regard. Persuading one of those guys that it is furthering their career by leaving the best side in Europe to move to a club that has a complete faker as CEO, a man who is despised by the players, a side with no current coaching team for next season, a side whose putative best players are Coetzee and Payne and both may never pull on the shirt again would be the work of a genius. I also doubt that either of the players are stupid enough to buy it. It actually would be o.k. for them. Things seem to be on the up and there are a lot of excellent players putting their hands above the parapet once they have given the chance. Cometh the hour cometh the players - if you are lucky.

Despite the horrendous season in losing Coetzee, Jackson, Payne, Olding and injuries to many others others, despite Kiss being absolutely inept selecting shockingly daft player combinations, side-lining Cave nearly all season and turning one of the best defences into the worst it's ever been, Ulster have recovered somewhat and have at least ended the season on a better note than could be expected. In conference B, they have only won 1 game less than Scarlets and 2 less than Leinster. Only Leinster have scored more points or more tries. I think, given the shambles of injuries, suspensions, dreadfully useless signings, side lining of players and the all pervasive malignancy of the trial and it's appalling aftermath, things could have been a lot worse.

You seem to have persuaded yourself things aren't so bad in one post.

Hands Like Flippers · 24-04-2018 02:23PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

jacothelad wrote: »

That would be quite a feat in this regard. Persuading one of those guys that it is furthering their career by leaving the best side in Europe to move to a club that has a complete faker as CEO, a man who is despised by the players, a side with no current coaching team for next season, a side whose putative best players are Coetzee and Payne and both may never pull on the shirt again would be the work of a genius. I also doubt that either of the players are stupid enough to buy it. It actually would be o.k. for them. Things seem to be on the up and there are a lot of excellent players putting their hands above the parapet once they have given the chance. Cometh the hour cometh the players - if you are lucky.

Despite the horrendous season in losing Coetzee, Jackson, Payne, Olding and injuries to many others others, despite Kiss being absolutely inept selecting shockingly daft player combinations, side-lining Cave nearly all season and turning one of the best defences into the worst it's ever been, Ulster have recovered somewhat and have at least ended the season on a better note than could be expected. In conference B, they have only won 1 game less than Scarlets and 2 less than Leinster. Only Leinster have scored more points or more tries. I think, given the shambles of injuries, suspensions, dreadfully useless signings, side lining of players and the all pervasive malignancy of the trial and it's appalling aftermath, things could have been a lot worse.

You seem to have persuaded yourself things aren't so bad in one post.

Heh heh

jacothelad · 24-04-2018 03:06PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

You seem to have persuaded yourself things aren't so bad in one post.

I am pointing out the reality rather than the hysterical mudslinging of a few commentators. I would imagine that with Jackson and Olding playing things would have been a lot better. We'd have qualified for the play-offs easily. Lealiifano iss a good player but he isn't a 10. Nelson isn't a 10 and it showed. We lost 3 or 4 games we should never have lost. Even the loss at home against Embra was unlucky. With the clock in the red, Edinburgh were held up over the line. It should have been game over with Ulster in front but Owens awarded a scrum from which they dropped a goal.

Things aren't so bad once you strip out the reasons for the failures this season. If a new coach brings new ideas, if the injuries clear up and if the new guys continue their upward course next season will be o.k.

bilston · 24-04-2018 03:27PM

jacothelad wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, absolutely forcing unwilling players to move teams is one thing. But that’s absolutely not necessarily what would happen. There’s a difference between forcing a player and convincing a player to move in their own best interests.

That would be quite a feat in this regard. Persuading one of those guys that it is furthering their career by leaving the best side in Europe to move to a club that has a complete faker as CEO, a man who is despised by the players, a side with no current coaching team for next season, a side whose putative best players are Coetzee and Payne and both may never pull on the shirt again would be the work of a genius. I also doubt that either of the players are stupid enough to buy it. It actually would be o.k. for them. Things seem to be on the up and there are a lot of excellent players putting their hands above the parapet once they have given the chance. Cometh the hour cometh the players - if you are lucky.

Despite the horrendous season in losing Coetzee, Jackson, Payne, Olding and injuries to many others others, despite Kiss being absolutely inept selecting shockingly daft player combinations, side-lining Cave nearly all season and turning one of the best defences into the worst it's ever been, Ulster have recovered somewhat and have at least ended the season on a better note than could be expected. In conference B, they have only won 1 game less than Scarlets and 2 less than Leinster. Only Leinster have scored more points or more tries. I think, given the shambles of injuries, suspensions, dreadfully useless signings, side lining of players and the all pervasive malignancy of the trial and it's appalling aftermath, things could have been a lot worse.

I was thinking the same myself last night. We have lost 9 games all season...the same number as Munster...

That's with the sacking of our coach, two players, one of whom was our most important and also without Coetzee and Payne who are massive players too and with the trial going on in the background.

Honestly I feel we hit the trough now and I believe things will get better. I'm not sure how quickly. I have a feeling the 2019/20 season will be our friend as we won't suffer too much from the WC, but we will see.

mfceiling · 24-04-2018 05:24PM

Former Former wrote: »

b) Ulster Rugby would take the hand off anyone who was offering them players of the calibre of Carbery or Byrne. Some of the Ulster fans here are absolutely delusional about that.

I wouldn't go as far to talk about "the calibre" of Carberry or Byrne. 2 young lads with plenty of promise but neither of them has been a first choice 10 for Leinster going into crucial ERCC or league games.
If they had been first choice 10's for 2 or 3 seasons then yeah but we're talking about their "potential" at the moment.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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