The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Triceratops Ballet · 20-04-2018 05:35PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're referring to but those don't appear to be "rights".

if you have cancer and can't get treatment because your pregnant how is that not affecting your right to life?
If you are sliced open against your will leading to a long and painful recovery how does that not impact on your right to bodily autonomy?

you're literally just making stuff up now to suit your agenda!

Triceratops Ballet · 20-04-2018 05:36PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Just more confabulation. As your doctor and the dog in the street will tell you. Unless you are extremely unlucky there is no reason why you should get pregnant if you don't want to.

I assume you have a reference to back that up?

20-04-2018 05:37PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Just more confabulation. As your doctor and the dog in the street will tell you. Unless you are extremely unlucky there is no reason why you should get pregnant if you don't want to.

This is ridiculous. Do you even read the posts?

BarleySweets · 20-04-2018 05:38PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're referring to but those don't appear to be "rights".

You’re just being childish now. Triceratops was 100% correct here. A person being actively forced to live a life that they don’t want against their will is literally what the right to self determination prohibits.

kylith · 20-04-2018 05:38PM

January wrote: »

Basic family planning 101, if you can't afford a child don't have one.

Hmmm, isn't that what some people say when increases to child benefit are mooted?

zedhead · 20-04-2018 05:38PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Just more confabulation. As your doctor and the dog in the street will tell you. Unless you are extremely unlucky there is no reason why you should get pregnant if you don't want to.

So you are ignoring the facts now? If no contraceptive is not 100% effective, it means that literally a number of people will get pregnant despite using said contraception.
Yes they can be considered unlucky, but it does happen.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-04-2018 05:39PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

if you have cancer and can't get treatment because your pregnant how is that not affecting your right to life?
If you are sliced open against your will leading to a long and painful recovery how does that not impact on your right to bodily autonomy?

you're literally just making stuff up now to suit your agenda!

As I've explained. Most rational people are in favour of abortion in circumstances where there is a serious threat to the mothers life or health.

horseburger · 20-04-2018 05:39PM

BarleySweets wrote: »

Ian O’Doherty complaining about other people acting morally superior?

Is that the same Ian O’Doherty who said on record that Muslims are never going to fit into Irish culture and shouldn’t be welcomed? The same guy who said the gay marriage referendum was a litmus test for the future of Ireland as a nation to scare listeners into voting against it?

Why focus on his views on other issues, rather than discussing why he holds certain views about the various groups that are campaigning, on this issue of the repeal of the Eighth Amendment?

He is a newspaper columnist. It is hardly surprising, that depending on the issue being discussed, that he might explore a contrarian viewpoint on a particular issue, and examine the arguments for and against that contrarian viewpoint.

I disagreed with comments he made about bus services, during the Bus Éireann strike last year.

That doesn't mean that I disregard all the perspectives he takes, on other issues, about which he writes, in his role as a columnist in the Irish Independent.

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amdublin · 20-04-2018 05:40PM

Amy Huberman has today tweeted her support for repealing the 8th amendment

v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-04-2018 05:41PM

zedhead wrote: »

So you are ignoring the facts now? If no contraceptive is not 100% effective, it means that literally a number of people will get pregnant despite using said contraception.
Yes they can be considered lucky, but it does happen.

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

BarleySweets · 20-04-2018 05:42PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Just more confabulation. As your doctor and the dog in the street will tell you. Unless you are extremely unlucky there is no reason why you should get pregnant if you don't want to.

Why would you think that? There’s plenty of reasons why pregnancy happens to a women who doesn’t want to get pregnant.

Unless you’re implying that it’s shameful for her to have sex without being on the pill or using condoms? Or unless you’re denying that contraceptives fail? Do you think that women who have recreational sex are shameful? Why?

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amcalester · 20-04-2018 05:42PM

horseburger wrote: »

Why focus on his views on other issues, rather than discussing why he holds certain views about the various groups that are campaigning, on this issue of the repeal of the Eighth Amendment?

He is a newspaper columnist. It is hardly surprising, that depending on the issue being discussed, that he might explore a contrarian viewpoint on a particular issue, and examine the arguments for and against that contrarian viewpoint.

I disagreed with comments he made about bus services, during the Bus Éireann strike last year.

That doesn't mean that I disregard all the perspectives he takes, on other issues, about which he writes, in his role as a columnist in the Irish Independent.

Why don’t you answer the question that you dodged by quoting IO’D?

Are you going to vote yes/no and what restrictions would you like to see in place if it is passed?

zedhead · 20-04-2018 05:42PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As I've explained. Most rational people are in favour of abortion in circumstances where there is a serious threat to the mothers life or health.

With the 8th amendment in place this is not allowed for.

Only with serious and immediate threat to the life of the woman. Their deteriorating health is irrelevant until it gets to the the point that it is immediately life threatening.

Repeal the 8th amendment and then lobby your local politicians for the legislation you want. With the 8th in place nothing can happen.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-04-2018 05:42PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As I've explained. Most rational people are in favour of abortion in circumstances where there is a serious threat to the mothers life or health.

but we're talking about the right to life of the unborn, you wanted to know why the unborn didn't deserve to have this right, and the answer is because it interferes with the rights of the person carrying it.

and if it's the case that most rational people believe that then most rational people should be voting yes because without a yes result the 8th amendment remains and women can't get an abortion if there is a serious risk to their health.

you never told me what you would say to a couple that has to travel for an abortion for ffa should the 8th be retained?

robarmstrong · 20-04-2018 05:43PM

amcalester wrote: »

Why don’t you answer the question that you dodged by quoting IO’D?

Don't bother, when pushed on certain points the poster has declined to comment on questions asked. Not worth your time.

zedhead · 20-04-2018 05:44PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

But you said before if you dont want to get pregnant you wont?

Now you're saying it can happen but if it does tough sh*t, deal with the health implications, life restrictions, financial limitations that you may not be able for.

Do we deny medical treatment to those who engage in high risk sports? They knew the risks so they should just deal themselves with the consequences right.

BarleySweets · 20-04-2018 05:44PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

Bull****. So you want to tie people down to raising kids together just because they decided to have sex together? Who are you to force that notion onto anybody? What kind of society would that result in?

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kylith · 20-04-2018 05:45PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

So someone in a relationship who either does not want children or does not want more children should not have sex with their partner until after menopause? Which can be anything up to age 50.

ETA: I take it you would also criminalise men who abandon their children?

20-04-2018 05:47PM

horseburger wrote: »

Why focus on his views on other issues, rather than discussing why he holds certain views about the various groups that are campaigning, on this issue of the repeal of the Eighth Amendment?

He is a newspaper columnist. It is hardly surprising, that depending on the issue being discussed, that he might explore a contrarian viewpoint on a particular issue, and examine the arguments for and against that contrarian viewpoint.

I disagreed with comments he made about bus services, during the Bus Éireann strike last year.

That doesn't mean that I disregard all the perspectives he takes, on other issues, about which he writes, in his role as a columnist in the Irish Independent.

Why focus on his views on anything?
Who cares what he thinks?
What does it have to do with repealing the 8th amendment?

Triceratops Ballet · 20-04-2018 05:47PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

by that "logic" when smokers present at hospitals with lung cancer they should be told to jog on

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v638sg7k1a92bx · 20-04-2018 05:48PM

BarleySweets wrote: »

Bull****. So you want to tie people down to raising kids together just because they decided to have sex together? Who are you to force that notion onto anybody? What kind of society would that result in?

I'm not forcing a notion onto anyone. They are the ones choosing to have sex.

BarleySweets · 20-04-2018 05:48PM

horseburger wrote: »

Why focus on his views on other issues, rather than discussing why he holds certain views about the various groups that are campaigning, on this issue of the repeal of the Eighth Amendment?

He is a newspaper columnist. It is hardly surprising, that depending on the issue being discussed, that he might explore a contrarian viewpoint on a particular issue, and examine the arguments for and against that contrarian viewpoint.

I disagreed with comments he made about bus services, during the Bus Éireann strike last year.

That doesn't mean that I disregard all the perspectives he takes, on other issues, about which he writes, in his role as a columnist in the Irish Independent.

Because your original quotes that Ian O’Doherty made were his accusations that some Repealers were “acting as if they are morally superior”. My quotes showed that Ian O’Doherty himself sees himself as morally superior to Muslims and gays who want to get married.

robarmstrong · 20-04-2018 05:48PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

My partner has a heart-shaped uterus and a medically diagnosed weak womb, so regardless of any precautions we take, any pregnancy we have gone through (apart from this one which has been all good so far at 27 weeks with a baby girl in there) there was a very, very high chance she was going to miscarry, or the baby would have died further along.

Based on your soundbite, I shouldn't even consider having sex with her, due to the above information. See your logic? We have gone through too many miscarriages and have had an abortion across the water where she was not liable to have support or aftercare.

Despite my belief against abortion, imagine my anger, that my partner could not have this in her own country because technically what's wrong with her isn't a threat to her life and isn't deemed a threat enough (despite the numerous miscarriages) to a pregnancy.

We didn't qualify for the very strict measures put in place, if the 8th was repealed, we would qualify.

zedhead · 20-04-2018 05:49PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

I'm not forcing a notion onto anyone. They are the ones choosing to have sex.

SO people who don't want children should remain celibate?

20-04-2018 05:49PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

Should we refuse treatment to alcoholics? Smokers?
How about extreme sportpeople?
People that get knocked down crossing the road?
They know the risks.............

SusieBlue · 20-04-2018 05:49PM

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

As adults we understand that there are risks involved with being in sexual relationships and the consequences of those risks, regardless of the precautions we take.

Ah, so we’re back into weaponizing children into punishments to be inflicted on their ‘careless’ parents.
We don’t trust these women to make an informed choice, but we forced the burden and responsibility of parenthood on them no problem.
Can’t be trusted with a choice, can be trusted with a child, is it?

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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