11 handicapper looking for advice on irons

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 1:08pm #1

Hello, new enough to boards & 1st thread so go easy on me

Background: I golfed a good bit when I was younger (12-16 yrs old) & gave it up for a good while (35now). Played a small bit of society stuff (3or4 rounds a year) from about 5 yrs ago until 2yrs ago. Then decided to become a member & make golf my pastime. Started back off 12 (in July16) & got down to 11 in early 17 but stuck on 11 all year.

Played PP last year (great craic!) & had a good run in the club matchplay. I strike the ball pretty well & far enough & I'm hoping to get down to single digit this year. Anyway, I was out with two 5 handicappers & a 10 handicap last night in Bruen practice. They all said that my irons are fairly out dated (they are!) & if I went for a fitting & bought new irons it'd help me a lot.

finally on to my question, I'm currently using callaway x14's with graphite shafts (3i - SW)... they are 20years old. I'm not looking to spend a huge amount on an upgrade at the moment (wife & I are saving) so I think that discounts ForeGolf (we all know the thread

) which my friend (6) used & rated highly. If I was to go to American Golf or McGuirks (Cork) & do a fitting with them & look at clubs in the sub €600/650 range (25% off @AG is massive aswell) do you think it'd be worth changing now? Or should I hold off & invest in a fitting with FG or with Padraig Dooley in Glanmire?

I know some will ask questions in the hope of helping me out & I'll do my best to answer.

*sorry for long OP!!!

Mantis Toboggan · 13-04-2018 1:17pm

Off 11 myself and targeting single figures. I was in a similar situation where by my clubs where oldish and also blades. Also wasn't looking to spend mad money. In the end got fitted for the Ping g400's in American golf. Got a good deal in black Friday week and got the full set including fitting for €520.

Really like the clubs and hitting them well despite playing little golf due to the weather. Definitely recommend them. I think getting fitted is the way to go whether it's foregolf or anywhere else once you trust them.

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 1:21pm

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Off 11 myself and targeting single figures. I was in a similar situation where by my clubs where oldish and also blades. Also wasn't looking to spend mad money. In the end got fitted for the Ping g400's in American golf. Got a good deal in black Friday week and got the full set including fitting for €520.

Really like the clubs and hitting them well despite playing little golf due to the weather. Definitely recommend them. I think getting fitted is the way to go whether it's foregolf or anywhere else once you trust them.

cheers for that Tyson! tbh I think most irons these days might be an upgrade to mine. Nice to read a good experience with AG, seem nice fellas anytime I go in

Seve OB · 13-04-2018 3:12pm

I read Graphite shafts and thought..... Yea, this guy needs to change his clubs alright

My advice, just have a look around, find somehting you like the look of and see where you can hit them for practice and who is going to offer you the best deal

I would also recomend you just look at your irons now. Spend the whole budget on them. Maybe get driver etc for your birthday/chrimbo. Ie.just ask everyone to give you vouchers

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 3:24pm

Seve OB wrote: »

I read Graphite shafts and thought..... Yea, this guy needs to change his clubs alright

My advice, just have a look around, find somehting you like the look of and see where you can hit them for practice and who is going to offer you the best deal

I would also recomend you just look at your irons now. Spend the whole budget on them. Maybe get driver etc for your birthday/chrimbo. Ie.just ask everyone to give you vouchers

thanks for the reply Seve! ya the 2 lads off 5 were shocked I was playing graphite shafts. right, getting booked into AG & i'll see how it goes.

I'm in love with my driver (Cobra Fspeed) & cant see me switching that out anytime soon

mafc · 13-04-2018 4:32pm

Would recommend AG too, have had a few fittings with them the most recent for new irons. Pleasant experience and no hard sell. Tallaght store if it’s close to you and ask for Ciaran. Best of luck

big_drive · 13-04-2018 6:08pm

If you could figure out your specs and what shaft suited along with length you could pick up a serious set 2nd hand in the €250 - €300 price range. Great value sets around

spacecoyote · 13-04-2018 6:10pm

mafc wrote: »

Would recommend AG too, have had a few fittings with them the most recent for new irons. Pleasant experience and no hard sell. Tallaght store if it’s close to you and ask for Ciaran. Best of luck

+1 on Ciaran in AG Tallaght.

Very sound man & will spend as much time with you as is needed. I got my current irons from him & must have spend at 2-2.5 hours in the shop trying different sets & options.

Had no pressure & bias towards any particular set either

Mantis Toboggan · 13-04-2018 6:32pm

I went American golf in Tallaght also, very good store!

bmay529 · 13-04-2018 6:52pm

Depends on your swing. I am 6' 2", reasonably fit and was fitted for graphite shafts by Leonard Owens in Royal Dublin many years ago when about 30, playing off 14, looking to get down. I used X14 irons with firm graphite shafts for years. They were always regarded as very good and forgiving clubs and I got down to 7 using them. Last year I replaced them with Mizuno JPX900 forged irons and S5 wedges all with Recoil F4 (stiff) graphite shafts and have been really preased with them, nice feel from the soft head and shaft (Mizuno had no upgrade charge for the Recoils). They are as precise as steel. Try them and see what you think, especially if you have been used to graphite. There is absolutely nothing wrong with graphite as long as you are happy with the weight and feel. I tend to like lighter clubs.

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 7:27pm

mafc wrote: »

Would recommend AG too, have had a few fittings with them the most recent for new irons. Pleasant experience and no hard sell. Tallaght store if it’s close to you and ask for Ciaran. Best of luck

Cheers for recommendation but I'm down in Cork. it is good to read ppl had good experience in AG!

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 7:30pm

big_drive wrote: »

If you could figure out your specs and what shaft suited along with length you could pick up a serious set 2nd hand in the €250 - €300 price range. Great value sets around

I know the original specs of my current clubs & I hit them well enough. So I guess ill go in to AG & see if anything suits better & go from there.

thanks for the reply

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 7:44pm

bmay529 wrote: »

Depends on your swing. I am 6' 2", reasonably fit and was fitted for graphite shafts by Leonard Owens in Royal Dublin many years ago when about 30, playing off 14, looking to get down. I used X14 irons with firm graphite shafts for years. They were always regarded as very good and forgiving clubs and I got down to 7 using them. Last year I replaced them with Mizuno JPX900 forged irons and S5 wedges all with Recoil F4 (stiff) graphite shafts and have been really preased with them, nice feel from the soft head and shaft (Mizuno had no upgrade charge for the Recoils). They are as precise as steel. Try them and see what you think, especially if you have been used to graphite. There is absolutely nothing wrong with graphite as long as you are happy with the weight and feel. I tend to like lighter clubs.

thanks for that! i'm 5'9"/10" and swing fast enough (in comparison to some I play with). the friend I mentioned off 6 went with the JPX900 forged (from FG) & rates them highly. I've no idea re graphite vs steel shaft really.

I'm thinking of looking at:
Mizuno JPX900
Taylormade M1/2/3/4 (not really too sure the differences)
Titilest 718 AP1
Callaway steelhead XR/Rogue
Cobra F8/7
Ping G400

so most popular models really :rolleyes:
I don't like the idea of losing my 3i, but looking at specs most 4i's these days are lofted like my current 3i.

ShivasIrons · 13-04-2018 10:00pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Cheers for recommendation but I'm down in Cork. it is good to read ppl had good experience in AG!

If you’re looking for an iron fitting, indoors on a mat is nearly a waste of time. No turf interaction and can’t see the true flight of the ball. Head somewhere where the fitting is outdoors.

kennethrhcp · 13-04-2018 10:27pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

If you’re looking for an iron fitting, indoors on a mat is nearly a waste of time. No turf interaction and can’t see the true flight of the ball. Head somewhere where the fitting is outdoors.

ya that's what friends were saying but tbh (& I know ppl say it's a myth) I don't think i'm at a level where a full on fitting will really be worth it (along with trying to save at the mo). I'm just looking for a better set of irons & I'll work away again on getting a bit lower & maybe if I can get down & start playing some bit consistent a full fitting in a few years will be worth it.

ShivasIrons · 13-04-2018 10:40pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

ya that's what friends were saying but tbh (& I know ppl say it's a myth) I don't think i'm at a level where a full on fitting will really be worth it (along with trying to save at the mo). I'm just looking for a better set of irons & I'll work away again on getting a bit lower & maybe if I can get down & start playing some bit consistent a full fitting in a few years will be worth it.

Getting a fitting doesn’t mean you have to buy. Why not go for one to see if a difference can be made? There’s not much to lose.

Russman · 13-04-2018 11:16pm

I’m going to very slightly buck the trend here, it might be blasphemy on a golf forum !!
From what you’ve said, both in terms of golfing ability & characteristics (height, speed etc) and your legitimate want to avoid spending an arm and a leg just yet, it sounds like you’re probably going to end up with some class of a “stiff” shaft, be it s300, PX 5.5, PXi, Nippon etc. Obviously a full on fitting will possibly dial everything in to the nth degree (then again fitters can often differ in their approach too), but IMHO if you get a set that’s in the right ball park you’ll be fine. I’d say go to somewhere that has the Mizuno swing analyser gadget, see what 3 shaft options that throws up, then find a set you like the look of with one or other of those shafts.
X14s are classic irons, so I’d say stick with something that still offers as much forgiveness as you can bear to look at, nobody “needs” better player irons to progress. The irons you mentioned are all good, the purist in me says Mizuno but that’s just because I like the shape of Mizzys. I guess the Pings would probably hold their value best, maybe, and would definitely be as forgiving as pretty much anything out there.

kennethrhcp · 14-04-2018 6:43am

Russman wrote: »

I’m going to very slightly buck the trend here, it might be blasphemy on a golf forum !!
From what you’ve said, both in terms of golfing ability & characteristics (height, speed etc) and your legitimate want to avoid spending an arm and a leg just yet, it sounds like you’re probably going to end up with some class of a “stiff” shaft, be it s300, PX 5.5, PXi, Nippon etc. Obviously a full on fitting will possibly dial everything in to the nth degree (then again fitters can often differ in their approach too), but IMHO if you get a set that’s in the right ball park you’ll be fine. I’d say go to somewhere that has the Mizuno swing analyser gadget, see what 3 shaft options that throws up, then find a set you like the look of with one or other of those shafts.
X14s are classic irons, so I’d say stick with something that still offers as much forgiveness as you can bear to look at, nobody “needs” better player irons to progress. The irons you mentioned are all good, the purist in me says Mizuno but that’s just because I like the shape of Mizzys. I guess the Pings would probably hold their value best, maybe, and would definitely be as forgiving as pretty much anything out there.

thanks for the reply. I'll go to AG next weekend & see the craic & if it doesn't feel better than the x14s i'll sit tight until later in the summer (after bruen) and reassess.

I think p.dooley in glanmire does mizuno (along with a few other brands) but unsure if he uses the mizuno swing analyser

BigChap1759 · 14-04-2018 6:31pm

Worth trying somewhere that has the mizuno shaft optimizer, will get you in the right ballpark for steel shaft

BigChap1759 · 14-04-2018 6:31pm

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Worth trying somewhere that has the mizuno shaft optimizer, will get you in the right ballpark for steel shaft

Think Halpenny have them and there shouldn’t be a charge

Bottle · 14-04-2018 7:00pm

If you get fitted for irons I would recommend not placing the order there and then, I would go to the range with your own clubs and see if you can borrow a couple of the custom fit recommendations and see how you get on. It really gives you an idea if they are the correct fit for you without a sales guy giving you the sell. I did it last year and it paid off, the shaft that was recommended and had all the good numbers launched really high in reality.

McGuirks in Kinsealey off the service, not sure if is available in Cork.

Hoboo · 14-04-2018 10:29pm

On to golfbidder.co.uk, set of apex CF16's, sorted.

http://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/5969/Callaway_Iron_Set_Apex_CF16.html

backspin. · 14-04-2018 11:33pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

I think p.dooley in glanmire does mizuno (along with a few other brands) but unsure if he uses the mizuno swing analyser

The mizuno jpx 900 hot metal seems to get good reviews.

kennethrhcp · 15-04-2018 8:59pm

thanks for the replies lads, I've been chatting to few ppl who I golf with & they've advised me to stick with my current irons until at least after the bruen (if I make the team) & not go messing with them as I'm swinging/striking pretty well.

after yesterday's round I think it's clear it aint the irons holding me back... it's in around the greens & silly mistakes. think i'll put the irons change on the back burner for a month or 2 & pop into the club pro for a lesson or 2 in the coming weeks.

ShivasIrons · 15-04-2018 9:15pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

thanks for the replies lads, I've been chatting to few ppl who I golf with & they've advised me to stick with my current irons until at least after the bruen (if I make the team) & not go messing with them as I'm swinging/striking pretty well.

after yesterday's round I think it's clear it aint the irons holding me back... it's in around the greens & silly mistakes. think i'll put the irons change on the back burner for a month or 2 & pop into the club pro for a lesson or 2 in the coming weeks.

It’s a fallacy to think that new irons will take some time to get used to. Remember the only reason to buy new clubs is for improved performance and that will happen very quickly and doesn’t take long to get used to.

stockdam · 15-04-2018 9:17pm

I was just about to answer when I read the last post from kennethrhcp above........as you said you need to focus on what is holding you back and it's very rarely that it's the clubs.

People throw shots away by doing silly things. Like taking driver out every hole when they either cannot hit a driver or else they don't need to. Focus on where you would like to play your next shot from and don't just blast away with the driver. Next find out why you aren't getting up and down from 30 yards in. Look at a good player and you may be surprised that they don't hit the ball much better but they are better around the greens and are picking up a shot to you every 2nd or third hole.

New shiny clubs are great but they usually do not solve swing faults or brain farts.

kennethrhcp · 15-04-2018 9:26pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

It’s a fallacy to think that new irons will take some time to get used to. Remember the only reason to buy new clubs is for improved performance and that will happen very quickly and doesn’t take long to get used to.

I hear you but my fear is distance control & not just striking well/forgiveness. with my current irons I know exactly what i'll take at certain yardages & the new clubs with the stronger lofts/increased tech would take a bit of getting used to. Bruen is only 4 weeks away (which I kind of forgot when I posted OP)

kennethrhcp · 15-04-2018 9:33pm

stockdam wrote: »

I was just about to answer when I read the last post from kennethrhcp above........as you said you need to focus on what is holding you back and it's very rarely that it's the clubs.

People throw shots away by doing silly things. Like taking driver out every hole when they either cannot hit a driver or else they don't need to. Focus on where you would like to play your next shot from and don't just blast away with the driver. Next find out why you aren't getting up and down from 30 yards in. Look at a good player and you may be surprised that they don't hit the ball much better but they are better around the greens and are picking up a shot to you every 2nd or third hole.

New shiny clubs are great but they usually do not solve swing faults or brain farts.

this is where i'm really struggling/messing up. some weeks it's decent but others I just seem to forget how to chip around the greens. I'll get a few lessons to try sort me out... will still look for the new shiny clubs tho later in the year

morrga · 16-04-2018 10:25pm

Went from 18 to 11 with AP1 and got Titliest AP3 end of last year. Best iron by a mile. AP3 has brought me to a new level of ball striking and accuracy already and only 4 months in. You will not regret it. Gary in AG Dundrum looked after me great.

miltonkrest · 19-04-2018 3:09pm

Seve OB wrote: »

I read Graphite shafts and thought..... Yea, this guy needs to change his clubs alright

My advice, just have a look around, find somehting you like the look of and see where you can hit them for practice and who is going to offer you the best deal

I would also recomend you just look at your irons now. Spend the whole budget on them. Maybe get driver etc for your birthday/chrimbo. Ie.just ask everyone to give you vouchers

sorry if this is a stupid question: whats the issue with graphite ?

Ronney · 19-04-2018 3:59pm

The only real getting used to is Distances control as the lofts on your X14 will be a club weaker than most modern sets.

Not long till everyone can hit there 36 degree Pitching wedge 150

GreeBo · 19-04-2018 4:33pm

miltonkrest wrote: »

sorry if this is a stupid question: whats the issue with graphite ?

I switched from stiff, steel shafts to regular, graphite shafts and went from 9 to 5 that year.

There is nothing wrong with graphite shafts and one mans stiff is another mans regular.

CalamariFritti · 20-04-2018 7:53am

Seve OB wrote: »

I read Graphite shafts and thought..... Yea, this guy needs to change his clubs alright

My advice, just have a look around, find somehting you like the look of and see where you can hit them for practice and who is going to offer you the best deal

I would also recomend you just look at your irons now. Spend the whole budget on them. Maybe get driver etc for your birthday/chrimbo. Ie.just ask everyone to give you vouchers

Sorry for the (somewhat) off topic question.
But why would graphite alone make you think that? Is it that graphite has that reputation of 'senior' or so?
Because to me it seems that graphite would be actually the far superior material to steel with regards to weight etc? Surely you can make graphite shafts any flex you like these days? No?
I'm asking cos' I'm playing steel shafts (KBS Tour S) and they go well for me. I got fitted for them. But at the time the guy had me hitting some really expensive graphite shafts just for comparison and boy they went easily a club or two longer for me and felt liker butter. They weren't whippy either. It's just that they were nearly 100 Euro a piece for the shafts alone and that was out of the question.

Russman · 20-04-2018 8:41am

GreeBo wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with graphite shafts and one mans stiff is another mans regular.

Exactly this. Modern shafts (from a reputable manufacturer) are very high quality, both in graphite and steel. Plus as Greebo mentioned, there's no real industry standard as such for what's regular and what's stiff. Even within a given brand, two of their models could be very different while being the same flex.

Seve OB · 20-04-2018 8:50am

Fair enough. It appears I am wrong re the graphite shafts. It's just something I always associated with cheap starter sets.

Russman · 20-04-2018 9:17am

Seve OB wrote: »

Fair enough. It appears I am wrong re the graphite shafts. It's just something I always associated with cheap starter sets.

Definitely agree with you about starter sets etc.

At the same time, there must be a reason that the vast, vast majority of irons are sold with steel shafts. Whether it be tradition and inertia, or the whole "steel is real" in terms of feel, who knows !

Seve OB · 20-04-2018 10:29am

Well as Calamari says above, an extra €100 per club for decent Graphite shafts will add up to a very expensive set of irons.

Does that mean thought that unless you are spending €2k+ on your irons, you really shouldnt be considering graphite shafts?

backspin. · 20-04-2018 11:06am

The pros would all be using them if they were superior to steel.

RoadRunner · 20-04-2018 11:15am

They are lighter shaft, suiting slower speed swing.

GreeBo · 20-04-2018 11:23am

backspin. wrote: »

The pros would all be using them if they were superior to steel.

The pros would all be using steel if they were superior to graphite.

Russman · 20-04-2018 11:25am

Seve OB wrote: »

Does that mean thought that unless you are spending €2k+ on your irons, you really shouldnt be considering graphite shafts?

I wouldn't say it means that tbh. I think all anyone is saying is that graphite shafts are much better now than they were 10/15 years ago, when there was a bit of a stigma about playing them in irons.

They can also make steel shafts that are almost as light as graphite now, so its really whatever you prefer.

Seve OB · 20-04-2018 11:51am

I like to carry my clubs, but the weight of them is ridiculous.
I got a new very light pencil bag at christmas and it is great. But no matter what bag, the seel shafts and forged heads are so heavy. I use it for 9-14 holes.
Made a mistake the other day and hadn't charged the battery, so I carried them for 18....... around Stackstown of all places!!! I was knackered.

I would love lighter clubs, but I will always choose performance over weight.

ShivasIrons · 20-04-2018 12:25pm

Re the comments about graphite shafts, graphite can be any weight they are not always light so you can get from 50 grams to 130 grams in iron shafts.

Before it was hard to get light steel shafts so graphite became the choice for lightweight, steel can now be as light as 75 grams in an iron.

What are the advantages of graphite now? Shock absorption is the main one, for golfers with hand, wrist and arm issues, graphite will be much easier to use for them, less worries about exacerbating their injuries. Lightweight graphite is cheaper then lightweight steel for ultra light shafts. The flex profile can also be changed easier in graphite so there's a little more design versatility in them.

Why steel? Steel has less torque so can be more accurate then graphite, especially for stronger players, which is why it's played by the majority of tour players.

Price wise, you can get expensive and cheap graphite and expensive and cheap steel. The expensive graphite would be more expensive!

kennethrhcp · 20-04-2018 12:39pm

one thing I did notice when I was swinging 2 of the lads irons is that in comparison to my x14s the heads of their irons felt a lot heavier.

is this something in newer irons?

ShivasIrons · 20-04-2018 1:01pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

one thing I did notice when I was swinging 2 of the lads irons is that in comparison to my x14s the heads of their irons felt a lot heavier.

is this something in newer irons?

No, the graphite in your irons makes your clubs feel lighter.

Seve OB · 20-04-2018 1:02pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

one thing I did notice when I was swinging 2 of the lads irons is that in comparison to my x14s the heads of their irons felt a lot heavier.

is this something in newer irons?

forged heads?

CalamariFritti · 20-04-2018 1:34pm

backspin. wrote: »

The pros would all be using them if they were superior to steel.

A few are using graphite. Snedeker I believe. There are others.

@Seve I didn't mean to question your statement, Was genuine question. I'm like others asking myself why isn't everyone using them. Thought you might know something I dont know (which is nothing).

CalamariFritti · 20-04-2018 1:36pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

No, the graphite in your irons makes your clubs feel lighter.

Which must not be confused with swing weight. What makes a club feel lighter/heavier is the ratio/weight distribution between shaft and head. The same clubhead with a lighter shaft will actually feel heavier to swing, but not to pick up.

Russman · 20-04-2018 1:39pm

Seve OB wrote: »

I like to carry my clubs, but the weight of them is ridiculous.
I got a new very light pencil bag at christmas and it is great. But no matter what bag, the seel shafts and forged heads are so heavy. I use it for 9-14 holes.
Made a mistake the other day and hadn't charged the battery, so I carried them for 18....... around Stackstown of all places!!! I was knackered.

I would love lighter clubs, but I will always choose performance over weight.

Would lighter clubs really make that much difference though ? I mean, even if you dropped the weight of your shafts by 30g each, which is huge per club, its still a fairly small overall reduction, no ? Taking out a windbreaker or a few balls is probably saving more weight.

kennethrhcp wrote: »

one thing I did notice when I was swinging 2 of the lads irons is that in comparison to my x14s the heads of their irons felt a lot heavier.

is this something in newer irons?

I'd say that's probably the fact that your own have graphite shafts which often feel much lighter (and probably are).

kennethrhcp · 20-04-2018 2:04pm

Seve OB wrote: »

forged heads?

one set were mizuno jpx 900 with forged heads.
the other set i'm not too sure if forged or not

kennethrhcp · 20-04-2018 2:07pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Which must not be confused with swing weight. What makes a club feel lighter/heavier is the ratio/weight distribution between shaft and head. The same clubhead with a lighter shaft will actually feel heavier to swing, but not to pick up.

I think this is more of what I meant. when swinging the other clubs it felt heavier/more powerful (if that makes sense) & it just felt like the club head was weighted in comparison to mine

11 handicapper looking for advice on irons

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