Is Islam right for Ireland?

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would you go specifically to somewhere that you know don't have pork & look for it?
Seems like you just want an argument

Deleted User wrote: »

Hellrazer wrote: »

Weve now gotten divorce,gay marriage,contraception and in a few weeks time we`ll have abortion on demand which will be the final nail in the coffin of the catholic church here. Do we really want any religion to have this much influence on society again? If we let it happen again we are the bigger fools.

No religion should ever have the power the catholic church had in this country.

I'm concerned about the cultural aspect too. In the last few years, we've seen a massive shift in public perception about the harassment and abuse of women. Between Weinstein, Metoo, the Belfast case, etc, there has been this focus on "men" as being the aggressors within society towards women, and the generally accepted belief that this is not acceptable. The movement to implement consent classes, sex education, new laws etc are all growing strongly and there will be changes in our society to protect women further than they already are. As a result, it's likely that women will engage in more expressions of that freedom and behave in a more unrestrained manner. Fair enough.

However, Islamic culture does not tolerate this. The male is the complete dominant factor in the society. The female does not behave in any manner that might bring shame to the family unit or the culture as a whole. Depending, on where they're from and the type of Islam, the females are likely to be kept away from non-family males, their freedoms restricted, and the expectations of their behavior is closely monitored. There isn't any acceptance of going out drinking, dating, flirting or any of the behavior that western women believe themselves entitled to.

I knew a family from Oman for three years. I knew the Husband from work, and would often be invited to join their evening meal. Two beautiful children, and a wife I never actually saw, or spoke to. During the meal, the wife would eat in an adjoining room out of my sight, but able to hear the conversation. When she would deliver the food to the table, she would be covered from head to foot, and not speak to me directly. Only through her husband. While the children were young, they were able to join the meal, but once the female child reached a certain age she was stopped from doing that, and kept in the other room. Lovely family. Yes, that's one example, but it's an example people don't really want to acknowledge as being fairly common from many Islamic cultures. Instead, we're always told to think of the more cosmopolitan or modern Islamic people, forgetting that Islam thrives in poorer regions and these less educated/more traditional people are also coming here.

Am I the only one that sees the conflict here? Even without the aggressive involvement of Islamic men against western women, which has been documented across Europe. (Shame gangs, Assaults, etc), there will be the temptation for feminists to demand equal freedoms for women within Islam. There will be direct threats to the very core laws and customs that Islamic people expect of their females. And it won't be the gradual modification and evolution of practices that more modern Islamic states experienced, but the more western application of media and social consciousness. And the expectation of changes immediately within years not decades. The expectation of Change in the West is not a slow thing anymore... everything must be changed quickly. You really think Islamic men (and many of the women) are going to appreciate the threat to their culture?

Such movements will definitely generate a reaction although I'm fully expecting Islamic men to preempt the threat by pushing for their own culture to spread within Europe, simply because western civilisation wants to be "fair" to minority beliefs. Although whether they remain a minority, with larger families, and generally greater numbers of younger people than westerners, is anyone's guess.  

We are being so short-sighted. Islamic culture does not match with western culture. While in the past, there was the expectation that western cultures would remain dominant in the regions, Muslims who moved to the West would keep their culture and religion behind the closed doors of their homes. That's no longer the case. In France, we are seeing more and more expressions of that culture and the conflict of when it meets the local culture. The documentaries about how women are no longer able to walk the streets of various French cities are ignored, or dismissed. The behavior of young Islamic men participating in Shame gangs are dismissed. The assaults and rapes by young men in Europe, even without believing the actual numbers involved, should be shocking, but are dismissed.

This is not about being a bigot. This is about being sensible. If we can clearly point out that certain behavior is unacceptable by any religious/cultural group, then we can limit the influence of that religious/cultural group. Which is not what we're doing, and any suggestion of doing so is met with a dismissive gesture.