The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

18-04-2018 03:34PM

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

which certain practices?
where are abortion rates a problem?

Triceratops Ballet · 18-04-2018 03:35PM

horseburger wrote: »

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

let's say that's all fair enough, what do you want to do with women who are pregnant and don't want to be?

captbarnacles · 18-04-2018 03:36PM

horseburger wrote: »

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

For me simply because it is dependent on the person carrying it and that person has complete control of everything that happens to their body.

That is just me my own particular view and it is different to a lot of pro-choice posters on here. The arguments on humanity etc are not relevant to my view although I understand the line of reasoning that Noz and others have on it.

Cabaal · 18-04-2018 03:37PM

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

Care to give an example if such a country that shares the same type of government, economy etc as Ireland?

Or are you just going to pull such claims out of your backside without facts and figures from reliable, respected sources?

Maybe you can pick one of those country's where a woman can jailed for having a miss carriage because of the crazy strict laws pro life people lobbied for? Too awkward perhaps?

BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 03:41PM

Cabaal wrote: »

So tell me, do you think women should be banned from travelling to the UK for abortions?

Do you think the 13th and 14th amendments should be repealed?

You think abortion is wrong so unless you answer yes to the above questions then you are nothing more then yet another pro life hypocrite... Happy to export our health issues rather then face them.

You know what, RobertKK has convinced me. He’s right about everything, all his facts make too much sense to be wrong! In fact, forget about banning women from traveling to the UK, I now think that women should be banned from traveling outside of the kitchen unless it’s to the maternity ward. Can’t wait to tell my fiancé all about my new viewpoint when I get home from work, this is so exciting!

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kylith · 18-04-2018 03:45PM

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

is Ireland one of those places?

FutureGuy · 18-04-2018 03:49PM

A small group in Limerick put up the first posters at the weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/180753015904821/?hc_ref=ARTep0_STXpr6pTYkjdnoDUSXE9QgnPh3C28ufe_2gjsOYufWcsNwb_YEpg0uRUlTHU

BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 03:51PM

optogirl wrote: »

but what about if it IS causing risk to the life of the mother? The 8th is still in the way.

No no no, don’t ask about stuff like that publicly. They only trust you if you agree with their views on the unborn’s right to life. So therefore, in order to earn their trust and respect, you should pretend to agree with them publicly and only seek/offer info about abortion in private.

What they seem to want women to do is: to lie to their faces and do what you want in private. Because let’s face it, their assumptions about what women do in private are far worse than the craziest fetishes that the kinkiest people I’ve met would even dream of.

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FutureGuy · 18-04-2018 03:52PM

A small group in Limerick put up the first posters at the weekend.

Didn't take too long.

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/180753015904821/?hc_ref=ARTep0_STXpr6pTYkjdnoDUSXE9QgnPh3C28ufe_2gjsOYufWcsNwb_YEpg0uRUlTHU

....... · 18-04-2018 03:54PM

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ohnonotgmail · 18-04-2018 03:54PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Being unborn is just one stage of life. It is as important as all the other stages of life for the human being and for all the human race.
If it was not just as important as a born life, otherwise we could have 100% abortion given we are told it is a woman's choice and if all women did for the sake of the argument, we could pretend it would have no consequences, even with one fifth to one sixth of pregnancies aborted in many western countries it is having a negative impact on society as each year the number of missing people from abortion grows in that society. The irony is immigration is then needed from regions with higher birth rates to fill jobs since the ratio of dependent people in society becomes a bigger burden on society as there are less younger people to do the jobs and pay taxes as the older generations retire, one consequence of smaller families is the rise in the retirement age.
This lack of taxpayers leads to immigration being needed to fill the hole of the missing people which takes people who could maybe help their own country to another where the pay is better and standards of living higher.
People can see the effect of immigration on politics in Europe with the rise of the far right and very right wing parties.
The societal effects of abortion are clear, it is negative and that non sentient human life is vital to all of humanity. If we decided to just kill all non sentient human in any form, we would go extinct. Some treat it as if it is not vital to mankind.

Missing people?? So if one woman is using contraception and doesnt get pregnant and another woman is also using contraception but the contraception fails and she has an abortion then that aborted foetus is somehow a "missing person"? I've read some nonsense on boards but this takes the biscuit.

ohnonotgmail · 18-04-2018 03:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

"certain practices"?

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applehunter · 18-04-2018 03:55PM

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BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 03:56PM

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Hate to be the “actually” guy but abortion is legal in all Middle Eastern countries. In fact, in all Muslim countries. It might be taboo amongst religious types, in a similar way to how it’s taboo here, but abortion is available in all Muslim countries on a much broader basis than it is in Ireland.

captbarnacles · 18-04-2018 03:58PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"certain practices"?

"Contraception"

Robbing the world of people for centuries.

BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 03:59PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"certain practices"?

I wonder if he means “shoving a hanger up your hole can be dangerous”, when he says “certain practices”. As if any of the poor girls who had to do that back in the day had a choice due to the 8th being such a restrictive constitutional amendment, no less!

ELM327 · 18-04-2018 04:00PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

"Contraception"

Robbing the world of people for centuries.

So does wearing sandals with socks, should we make wearing those illegal too! :P:P

captbarnacles · 18-04-2018 04:01PM

Robertkk actually wants unplanned and accidental pregnancies.

I always thought the Catholic obsession with abstinence only sex education was to preserve sex for marriage but nope! it's to boost the population!!

ohnonotgmail · 18-04-2018 04:03PM

ELM327 wrote: »

So does wearing sandals with socks, should we make wearing those illegal too! :P:P

In fairness that is something i could easily get behind.

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BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 04:07PM

horseburger wrote: »

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

That’s fine for you, you won’t be forced to have an abortion. After the referendum, your feelings on the unborn and abortion will affect you and your life only. Your preferences won’t influence anybody else, just like nobody else’s preferences will affect you.

If you get into a crisis pregnancy, you’ll have the freedom to choose not to abort if you wish. You can then choose to raise the child or put it up for adoption. Nobody will judge you or force you into making a choice that you don’t want to make.

Amazing how that works, right?

Zubeneschamali · 18-04-2018 04:09PM

BarleySweets wrote: »

Amazing how that works, right?

But what about other people's bedroom activities? Other people's medical issues? Don't I get to poke my nose in there?

Isn't that what democracy is all about?

BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 04:10PM

....... wrote: »

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That page has Ireland’s restrictions listed incorrectly so I’m not sure how much faith I’d put on their info.

Triceratops Ballet · 18-04-2018 04:10PM

....... wrote: »

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It's definitely available up to a point in Iran, but not "on demand"

NuMarvel · 18-04-2018 04:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Being unborn is just one stage of life. It is as important as all the other stages of life for the human being and for all the human race.

That sounds great, but there are plenty of examples in our law and society where the unborn are not regarded as being as important as all other stages of life.

In our constitution, the unborn's right to life is secondary to the freedom to travel; there's no equivalent constitutional provision for the right to life of the born. Every year, hundreds of women of women import pills for illegal abortions but no one is calling for their prosecution. In fact, some on the No side have called for these women to be decriminalised. Imagine the reaction if the same happened for homicides. And some unborn have no constitutional or legal protection whatsoever; nobody bats an eyelid to that.

How can you advocate a No vote on the basis that the unborn is the same as the rest of us, when a No vote perpetuates a status quo in which the unborn is not the same as the rest of us?

RobertKK wrote: »

If it was not just as important as a born life, otherwise we could have 100% abortion given we are told it is a woman's choice and if all women did for the sake of the argument, we could pretend it would have no consequences, even with one fifth to one sixth of pregnancies aborted in many western countries it is having a negative impact on society as each year the number of missing people from abortion grows in that society. The irony is immigration is then needed from regions with higher birth rates to fill jobs since the ratio of dependent people in society becomes a bigger burden on society as there are less younger people to do the jobs and pay taxes as the older generations retire, one consequence of smaller families is the rise in the retirement age.
This lack of taxpayers leads to immigration being needed to fill the hole of the missing people which takes people who could maybe help their own country to another where the pay is better and standards of living higher.
People can see the effect of immigration on politics in Europe with the rise of the far right and very right wing parties.
The societal effects of abortion are clear, it is negative and that non sentient human life is vital to all of humanity. If we decided to just kill all non sentient human in any form, we would go extinct. Some treat it as if it is not vital to mankind.

So you're saying legalising something that women are already doing will lead to the downfall of society. That sounds eerily similar to arguments made against previous societal changes. :rolleyes:

BarleySweets · 18-04-2018 04:12PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But what about other people's bedroom activities? Other people's medical issues? Don't I get to poke my nose in there?

Isn't that what democracy is all about?

Ugh, I forgot about all of those important issues, how could I forget any of that. Thank you for bringing them to my attention!

NuMarvel · 18-04-2018 04:14PM

ELM327 wrote: »

So does wearing sandals with socks, should we make wearing those illegal too! :P:P

I'd vote yes to putting that into the Constitution!

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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