Speeding Summons / wrong everything

BattleCorp · 17-04-2018 09:57AM

Anybody who thinks that the OP should ignore the summons and not turn up in court is very naive.

How can you be 100% sure that the case won't be going ahead? It might not go away, no matter what you are told over the phone. No matter how much effort it is, you have to deal with this.

C3PO · 17-04-2018 10:04AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Anybody who thinks that the OP should ignore the summons and not turn up in court is very naive.

How can you be 100% sure that the case won't be going ahead? It might not go away, no matter what you are told over the phone. No matter how much effort it is, you have to deal with this.

Once again, I agree absolutely with this! If you turn up in court with the summons the Clerk of the Court will be able to tell you whether the case has, in fact, been struck out.

FishOnABike · 17-04-2018 10:33AM

C3PO wrote: »

Nothing like the loss that will accrue if you are convicted in your absence! Surely you could take a days leave?
I would be surprised if you get anything in writing from the Gardaí! If you do great, if not, you need to turn up in court!

BattleCorp wrote: »

Anybody who thinks that the OP should ignore the summons and not turn up in court is very naive.

How can you be 100% sure that the case won't be going ahead? It might not go away, no matter what you are told over the phone. No matter how much effort it is, you have to deal with this.

This. I have seen someone turn up late for court to find their case was already called and they were convicted in their absence for motoring offences (paperwork related - cant remember what combination of tax/insurance/NCT it wwas at this stage) and have a substantial penalty imposed.

Fortunately the judge in question did give the defendent the chance to put his case when he appeared after lunch. All his paperwork was in order and the charges + convictions struck out.

I would not advise ignoring this even if told over the phone that everything is sorted out. If you are convicted in court of speeding offences and non-payment of fines, you will automatically receive 5 penalty points and a fine up to a maximum of €1,000. The potential cost of a court fine and increased insurance premium for several years needs to be considered against the inconvenience and lower cost of going to court and making sure you don't end up with a conviction.

NUTLEY BOY · 17-04-2018 11:25AM

OP has been served. The case can only be conducted in the courtroom absent prior agreement to withdraw the summons.

I would write to the superintendent for the area covering the alleged offence setting out the basic facts and requesting that the summons be withdrawn.

Additionally, I would express my utter dissatisfaction at the manner in which this has been handled. I would round off my letter by asking AGS to deal with the matter definitively or deal with GSOC by way of a formal complaint.

I would send the letter by registered post to overcome this modern misfortune of letters going astray. I am very confident that AGS will not respond helpfully to OP which is why I would love to have a letter to produce in court to the DJ along with my proof of delivery.

I would write and waste no more time on the telephone as the contents of such conversations are notoriously hard to evidence in court and may descend to the level of "he said, she said".

OP, if you do not attend court you will lose the case by default.

STB. · 17-04-2018 06:02PM

FFS The advice given on this thread is nothing short of shocking.

The address on the summons bears no relation to the person with the same name who lived 2 miles down the road 16 years ago.

It is a mighty hop to say they will be convicted/fined etc in their absence! Having the same name as somebody with a different address DOES NOT and CANNOT result in any affect on the OP because his mother accepted a summons for somebody else.

Who I do feel sorry for is the person who does not know whats going on, if they do exist!

It is no harm to get the whole sorry mess recorded in wiriting with the local Garda station that wrongly served the summons at the wrong address however.

Glass fused light · 17-04-2018 06:20PM

STB. wrote: »

FFS The advice given on this thread is nothing short of shocking.

The address on the summons bears no relation to the person with the same name who lived 2 miles down the road 16 years ago.

It is a mighty hop to say they will be convicted/fined etc in their absence! Having the same name as somebody with a different address DOES NOT and CANNOT result in any affect on the OP because his mother accepted a summons for somebody else.

Who I do feel sorry for is the person who does not know whats going on, if they do exist!

It is no harm to get the whole sorry mess recorded in wiriting with the local Garda station that wrongly served the summons at the wrong address however.

What happens if the guard makes a correction to the summons on the court day to the OP's correct home address and confirms to the judge that the OP is aware as he has been calling both stations about it.

STB. · 17-04-2018 06:58PM

Glass fused light wrote: »

What happens if the guard makes a correction to the summons on the court day to the OP's correct home address and confirms to the judge that the OP is aware as he has been calling both stations about it.

Like hypothetically in a world where no judicial system exists ? That type of corruption is just a tad of a reach. No judge would agree to it as their bloody name is already on the summons.

The guards have clearly served the summons at the wrong address on the wrong person. This has been brought to their attention. Its a mistake.

The expectations here that because the wrong person (that bear nothing to the name and address on the summons) has been served are expected to attend court is the most fascinating insight into the legal minds on this thread.

Do you really think they will continue with this case now that it has been brought to their attention ?

The garda will turn up saying he could not be found.

tbarry31 · 17-04-2018 07:13PM

Glass fused light wrote: »

What happens if the guard makes a correction to the summons on the court day to the OP's correct home address and confirms to the judge that the OP is aware as he has been calling both stations about it.

They don't know my address only what direction I live in the Garda on the phone the other day wouldn't even take my address where I have lived for the last 12 years because and these are her own words you have nothing to answer for and she again apologised for any inconvenience caused and asked for their apologies to be sent to my mam. I was also told on the phone not to give it a second thought because the Garda who gave the summons to my mother has already handed back in his part of the summons for it to be sent back and Cahir Garda Station will then conduct an enquiry to actually find out who this person is.

K.Flyer · 17-04-2018 07:18PM

STB. wrote: »

[...]
The garda will turn up saying he could not be found.

And you can absolutely 110% assure the o.p. that this will definitely be the outcome.

Like the Garda who told me that it was ok for me Not to produce my insurance cert when I told him that I had already produced it a few days beforehand and he said he would check that record.
Quell my surprise when I received a handfull of summons for no licence, no insurance, failing to produce yada yada.
Only because gut instinct made me produce on 9th Day.
I went and got A Letter from the station and my insurance co. saying all was in order.
Judge apologised for wasting my time when I handed everything over to him.

O.p. get things in writing that this has nothing to do with you. Attend court if you can, or at least be represented, just in case.

tbarry31 · 17-04-2018 07:23PM

K.Flyer wrote: »

And you can absolutely 110% assure the o.p. that this will definitely be the outcome.

Like the Garda who told me that it was ok for me Not to produce my insurance cert when I told him that I had already produced it a few days beforehand and he said he would check that record.
Quell my surprise when I received a handfull of summons for no licence, no insurance, failing to produce yada yada.
Only because gut instinct made me produce on 9th Day.
I went and got A Letter from the station and my insurance co. saying all was in order.
Judge apologised for wasting my time when I handed everything over to him.

O.p. get things in writing that this has nothing to do with you. Attend court if you can, or at least be represented, just in case.

It sounds like you don't trust the Garda at all

STB. · 17-04-2018 07:29PM

K.Flyer wrote: »

And you can absolutely 110% assure the o.p. that this will definitely be the outcome..

I dont need to.

The summons was hand delivered to the wrong address.

There is a reason that "the occupier" is never summonsed to court. There is also a reason that they dont lock up people just because they have the same name as someone they are looking for who resides at another address.

K.Flyer · 17-04-2018 07:39PM

tbarry31 wrote: »

It sounds like you don't trust the Garda at all

On the contrary, I have absolutely no issues at all with them on a personal level.
But they are human like everyone and errors can be made, and with time, certain details may be accidentally forgotten.
At the end of the day you are the one who needs to decide how far you need to go to ensure that you are completely out of the situation that you found yourself in.
If it was me I would be making belt and braces sure it was dealt with.

tbarry31 · 17-04-2018 07:45PM

K.Flyer wrote: »

On the contrary, I have absolutely no issues at all with them on a personal level.
But they are human like everyone and errors can be made, and with time, certain details may be accidentally forgotten.
At the end of the day you are the one who needs to decide how far you need to go to ensure that you are completely out of the situation that you found yourself in.
If it was me I would be making belt and braces sure it was dealt with.

I made sure it was dealt with by ringing them telling them they served it in error they apologised and even thanked me for following up on this and saving them time. I was actually going to just bin it but followed some advice giving here and contacted the Gardai who have stated it's not me. I even got the girl in the office who deals with all the summons

wexie · 17-04-2018 07:52PM

K.Flyer wrote: »

On the contrary, I have absolutely no issues at all with them on a personal level.
But they are human like everyone and errors can be made, and with time, certain details may be accidentally forgotten.
At the end of the day you are the one who needs to decide how far you need to go to ensure that you are completely out of the situation that you found yourself in.
If it was me I would be making belt and braces sure it was dealt with.

Thing is....if this was a police force that had managed to enter the 21st century with the rest of us....

It would have taken them 5 minutes to send an email from

sgtjoeblogs@ags.ie

Dear OP,

as discussed we would hereby like to confirm the summons issued to you on <insert date> by garda <insert name> was indeed issued to you in error.

We would like to apologise for the inconvenience caused and thank you for taking the time to rectify this.

regards,

sgtjoeblogs

Or would that just be an unreasonable expectation?

Glass fused light · 17-04-2018 08:48PM

tbarry31 wrote: »

I made sure it was dealt with by ringing them telling them they served it in error they apologised and even thanked me for following up on this and saving them time. I was actually going to just bin it but followed some advice giving here and contacted the Gardai who have stated it's not me. I even got the girl in the office who deals with all the summons

Look did the woman explain how the summons would be cancelled and does she have the authority to act.

Until you get the guard who issued the summons, you are depending on a third party to have communicated correctly. Eg I called the local council regarding a road surface, asked to be put through to the roads section, it rang out and I went back to reception, who decided to sent an email out. I gave a detailed description i was looking for the road section covering x , explaining exactly what the problem was regarding the road surface, were the road was located and my contact details and she named the manager over the section. I got call from the roads manager at the other end of the county, someone from planning and the fly tipping manager. Their departments all got a message, basically please call x number and follow up.

tbarry31 · 17-04-2018 08:55PM

Glass fused light wrote: »

Look did the woman explain how the summons would be cancelled and does she have the authority to act.

Until you get the guard who issued the summons, you are depending on a third party to have communicated correctly. Eg I called the local council regarding a road surface, asked to be put through to the roads section, it rang out and I went back to reception, who decided to sent an email out. I gave a detailed description i was looking for the road section covering x , explaining exactly what the problem was regarding the road surface, were the road was located and my contact details and she named the manager over the section. I got call from the roads manager at the other end of the county, someone from planning and the fly tipping manager. Their departments all got a message, basically please call x number and follow up.

She said because it was giving to me in error there is something they have to sign on it , it will then be sent back to Cahir for investigation to find out who the real person is. I was then told I would be wasting my time going to Court as they have dealt with it

4ensic15 · 17-04-2018 09:31PM

tbarry31 wrote: »

I made sure it was dealt with by ringing them telling them they served it in error they apologised and even thanked me for following up on this and saving them time. I was actually going to just bin it but followed some advice giving here and contacted the Gardai who have stated it's not me. I even got the girl in the office who deals with all the summons

Have you any of that in writing? These things go wrong from time to time. When it does, where is the girl in the office going to be?

RobbieMD · 17-04-2018 09:35PM

STB. wrote: »

Like hypothetically in a world where no judicial system exists ? That type of corruption is just a tad of a reach. No judge would agree to it as their bloody name is already on the summons.

The guards have clearly served the summons at the wrong address on the wrong person. This has been brought to their attention. Its a mistake.

The expectations here that because the wrong person (that bear nothing to the name and address on the summons) has been served are expected to attend court is the most fascinating insight into the legal minds on this thread.

Do you really think they will continue with this case now that it has been brought to their attention ?

The garda will turn up saying he could not be found.

If you don't think summons or charges are amended in court on a frequent basis, then you probably aren't in district courts often. It's fairly common for them to be amended before any evidence is heard.

I think the Garda will continue with it, because as far as I can tell, the prosecuting member is still unaware of the mistaken identity, as far as he's aware the summons he applied for was issued and served.

For the OP, have you spoken to the investigating member? The woman who deals with the summonses is more than likely an administrator who has no authority to cancel summonses. If it has been served, the summons will be posted to the relevant district court office. It will be on a court list for the date on your copy of the summons. And there's every likelihood you will be convicted in your absence if you aren't there to raise this.

STB. · 17-04-2018 10:51PM

RobbieMD wrote: »

If you don't think summons or charges are amended in court on a frequent basis, then you probably aren't in district courts often. It's fairly common for them to be amended before any evidence is heard. .

Regardless of whether I am in a district court or not, I do have the uncanny ability to read a statutory instrument.

A Judge is NOT going to amend the address of a summons to satisfy where it was served rather than where it was meant to be served because a guess was made.

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/d331d5a55f7ce5a080256d2b0046a05e?OpenDocument

RobbieMD wrote: »

I think the Garda will continue with it, because as far as I can tell, the prosecuting member is still unaware of the mistaken identity, as far as he's aware the summons he applied for was issued and served.

.

The worst part of all of this Robbie, is that there is a summons out for someone who doesnt know about it that will quickly become an arrest warrant.

4ensic15 · 17-04-2018 11:02PM

STB. wrote: »

Regardless of whether I am in a district court or not, I do have the uncanny ability to read a statutory instrument.

A Judge is NOT going to amend the address of a summons to satisfy where it was served rather than where it was meant to be served because a guess was made.

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/0c609d7abff72c1c80256d2b0045bb64/d331d5a55f7ce5a080256d2b0046a05e?OpenDocument

.

If someone turns up in court, where it was served is immaterial. If someone is not there and the judge asked for service to be proven, the place where service was proved is immaterial. If service is proved, the guard is asked to prove his case. If there is no one there for the defendant, issues of address won't matter.
The judge is not going to make enquiries and cross examine the guard.

STB. · 17-04-2018 11:10PM

4ensic15 wrote: »

If someone turns up in court, where it was served is immaterial. If someone is not there and the judge asked for service to be proven, the place where service was proved is immaterial. If service is proved, the guard is asked to prove his case. If there is no one there for the defendant, issues of address won't matter.
The judge is not going to make enquiries and cross examine the guard.

Which is why quite a lot of cases get thrown out beit date name address etc.

You cannot serve a summons on any old address.

The defendant in this case is someone with a similar name who lives 2 miles up the road from where the summons was served.

Are you now telling me that the two are interchangeable ?

I would think that the repercussions of neglience are fresh in the minds of the Gardai after the most recent costly mistake

Etnies · 17-04-2018 11:21PM

My girlfriend was prosecuted for careless driving, her summons had the wrong address, wrong reg and wrong location of the incident.

The wrong address caused a delay of fine letter pre summons also.

Of course the guard only found out all this when he got to court because he refused to accept our calls to drop the charges.

The judge absoutly laid into him for wasting court time and case was thrown out he went purple.

STB. · 17-04-2018 11:53PM

People have got off drink driving charges for the wrong date been on the summons nevermind the wrong person being before the courts.

Wrong date
http://www.mayonews.ie/?option=com_content&view=article&id=19239:woman-escapes-drink-driving-charge-due-to-garda-error&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Wrong Address
http://www.donegaldaily.com/2015/12/17/man-cleared-of-dangerous-driving-after-summons-sent-to-wrong-address/

and 60,000 more
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/60000-driving-cases-struck-out-as-gardai-fail-to-issue-summons-263569.html

fxotoole · 18-04-2018 12:21AM

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

Just bin it. It's not for you.It'd make a nice roach for a fag.

This is really bad advice and will land the OP in a much worse position than they’re currently in

Seth Brundle · 18-04-2018 07:11AM

STB. wrote: »

Like hypothetically in a world where no judicial system exists ? That type of corruption is just a tad of a reach.

How is this episode an example of corruption?
:rolleyes:

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-04-2018 08:47AM

This post has been deleted.

Seth Brundle · 18-04-2018 09:14AM

Patww79 wrote: »

He was replying to a post that suggested the cop could change the address to the OP's to cover himself and deny all knowledge of telling him the matter was closed. That happening would be corrupt.

OmegaGene wrote: »

Read the thread properly and follow the ongoing conversation

Roll eyes

Neither are corrupt. The garda may be covering up their balls up but that's not corruption as we refer to it.

BattleCorp · 18-04-2018 09:43AM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There are often minor errors in addresses etc. that are amended in court. That's not necessarily a sign of corruption or Gardaí covering their ass. It could just be a misspelling etc.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but the OP hasn't gotten to speak to the Garda who issued the summons. And if the OP doesn't tell the Garda who issued the summons that this is a case of mistaken identity, how does the Garda know that he made a mistake?

Glass fused light · 18-04-2018 10:17AM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He was replying to a post that suggested the cop could change the address to the OP's to cover himself and deny all knowledge of telling him the matter was closed. That happening would be corrupt.
[/QUOTE]

STB. wrote: »

FFS The advice given on this thread is nothing short of shocking.

The address on the summons bears no relation to the person with the same name who lived 2 miles down the road 16 years ago.

It is a mighty hop to say they will be convicted/fined etc in their absence! Having the same name as somebody with a different address DOES NOT and CANNOT result in any affect on the OP because his mother accepted a summons for somebody else.

Who I do feel sorry for is the person who does not know whats going on, if they do exist!

It is no harm to get the whole sorry mess recorded in wiriting with the local Garda station that wrongly served the summons at the wrong address however.

Glass fused light wrote: »

What happens if the guard makes a correction to the summons on the court day to the OP's correct home address and confirms to the judge that the OP is aware as he has been calling both stations about it.

STB. wrote: »

Like hypothetically in a world where no judicial system exists ? That type of corruption is just a tad of a reach. No judge would agree to it as their bloody name is already on the summons.

The guards have clearly served the summons at the wrong address on the wrong person. This has been brought to their attention. Its a mistake.

The expectations here that because the wrong person (that bear nothing to the name and address on the summons) has been served are expected to attend court is the most fascinating insight into the legal minds on this thread.

Do you really think they will continue with this case now that it has been brought to their attention ?

The garda will turn up saying he could not be found.

"suggested the cop could change the address to the OP's to cover himself and deny all knowledge of telling him the matter was closed."

Did I actually write this in my post or has someone read what I had wrote and suggested a motivation for the action?

I was actually just asking a question, without using a '?'.

I have been consistently suggesting that the OP contacts the issuing Guard directly. That Guard has told the OP nothing. That Guard is not due to be available until the day before the court date. Guards work shifts so it possible that none of the people the OP is talking with will be working the same shift.
The OP is relying on assurances that the correct message is delivered read and understood and actioned by the Guard in question.
So I was thinking of garbled messages being left for the Guard not a stitch-up.

tbarry31 · 18-04-2018 11:21AM

Glass fused light wrote: »

"suggested the cop could change the address to the OP's to cover himself and deny all knowledge of telling him the matter was closed."

Did I actually write this in my post or has someone read what I had wrote and suggested a motivation for the action?

I was actually just asking a question, without using a '?'.

I have been consistently suggesting that the OP contacts the issuing Guard directly. That Guard has told the OP nothing. That Guard is not due to be available until the day before the court date. Guards work shifts so it possible that none of the people the OP is talking with will be working the same shift.
The OP is relying on assurances that the correct message is delivered read and understood and actioned by the Guard in question.
So I was thinking of garbled messages being left for the Guard not a stitch-up.

He is not on shift till the day before the court date he is on holidays.

Speeding Summons / wrong everything

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