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Dublin routes news and general chat

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    #812
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    Hey guys, the better informed here might know - has the Ryanair route to Naples been made all year round? I was under the impression it was meant to be seasonal / winter...not complaining at all, means more choice for me if the destination is a family visit.

    Just a bit worried they could drive EI out of the route and hike the price afterwards...


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    #813
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,141 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Hey guys, the better informed here might know - has the Ryanair route to Naples been made all year round? I was under the impression it was meant to be seasonal / winter...not complaining at all, means more choice for me if the destination is a family visit.

    Just a bit worried they could drive EI out of the route and hike the price afterwards...

    A fairly good way of checking is checking yourself by seeing if you can book it! A quick 30 second search has told me that it is year round, operating 5x weekly in the summer and 2x weekly in the winter.


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    #814
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Hey guys, the better informed here might know - has the Ryanair route to Naples been made all year round? I was under the impression it was meant to be seasonal / winter...not complaining at all, means more choice for me if the destination is a family visit.

    Just a bit worried they could drive EI out of the route and hike the price afterwards...
    I think EI are well established on the route and it’s also a big route for American tourists who connect off their US flights, so on that basis I don’t think they’ll drop it anytime soon


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    #815
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Its great to have it all doing so well and the second runway on the way but the taxi times and waiting for takeoff at Dublin are now getting a bit silly. Every single flight I've been on at Dublin recently has been 30 minutes late taking off.... now I know the airlines build that in but its very annoying having to wait in a big queue of planes for takeoff. Adding more routes is only going to cause more problems here. Add to that the growing problem of having to wait a long time for a gate upon landing. I've had that twice recently. Most recently was a midday landing from Larnaca with Cobalt... 25 minutes in the hold, land, 25 minute wait on the tarmac for a gate to open.


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    #816
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Its great to have it all doing so well and the second runway on the way but the taxi times and waiting for takeoff at Dublin are now getting a bit silly. Every single flight I've been on at Dublin recently has been 30 minutes late taking off.... now I know the airlines build that in but its very annoying having to wait in a big queue of planes for takeoff. Adding more routes is only going to cause more problems here. Add to that the growing problem of having to wait a long time for a gate upon landing. I've had that twice recently. Most recently was a midday landing from Larnaca with Cobalt... 25 minutes in the hold, land, 25 minute wait on the tarmac for a gate to open.

    Yep, you’re absolutely correct and Dublin must be one of the worst airports in Europe for this right now. At times it’s as bad as the sh!* show at some of the US airports.
    Hopefully the new runway and an overhaul of air traffic management will relieve this but gate space will continue to be an issue and the layout of the gates doesn’t help. Hopefully proper, meaningful gate/pier expansions will happen soon at DUB


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    #817
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Its great to have it all doing so well and the second runway on the way but the taxi times and waiting for takeoff at Dublin are now getting a bit silly. Every single flight I've been on at Dublin recently has been 30 minutes late taking off.... now I know the airlines build that in but its very annoying having to wait in a big queue of planes for takeoff. Adding more routes is only going to cause more problems here. Add to that the growing problem of having to wait a long time for a gate upon landing. I've had that twice recently. Most recently was a midday landing from Larnaca with Cobalt... 25 minutes in the hold, land, 25 minute wait on the tarmac for a gate to open.

    The only published scheduled times are the the times the aircraft it is scheduled to push back from the gate and the time it is due to arrive on stand in the arrival airport (not the time it lands).

    You can’t say that you took off “30 minutes late”. The schedule incorporates time for taxi and holding delays as well as actual flight time.

    Did you push back on time and were you late on stand at the arrival airports?

    They are the questions that you need to ask!

    Having said all that yes it is frustrating to have to wait in a line of aircraft, but anyone flying out of LHR for example would be well used to that phemomenon.

    Dublin does however (as you rightly say) badly need the second runway and more stand space.


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    #818
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Did you push back on time and were you late on stand at the arrival airports?

    No. I've found in Dublin you never push back on time, certainly in my experience anyway. 20 minutes "late" is my recent average. In general I haven't been late on stand at the arrival airport so the timings are not too bad in the grand scheme of things but it still results in frustrated passengers.


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    #819
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    No. I've found in Dublin you never push back on time, certainly in my experience anyway. 20 minutes "late" is my recent average. In general I haven't been late on stand at the arrival airport so the timings are not too bad in the grand scheme of things but it still results in frustrated passengers.

    Then you’re not late! You’ve arrived on time.


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    #820
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Its great to have it all doing so well and the second runway on the way but the taxi times and waiting for takeoff at Dublin are now getting a bit silly. Every single flight I've been on at Dublin recently has been 30 minutes late taking off.... now I know the airlines build that in but its very annoying having to wait in a big queue of planes for takeoff. Adding more routes is only going to cause more problems here. Add to that the growing problem of having to wait a long time for a gate upon landing. I've had that twice recently. Most recently was a midday landing from Larnaca with Cobalt... 25 minutes in the hold, land, 25 minute wait on the tarmac for a gate to open.

    The only published scheduled times are the the times the aircraft it is scheduled to push back from the gate and the time it is due to arrive on stand in the arrival airport (not the time it lands).

    You can’t say that you took off “30 minutes late”. The schedule incorporates time for taxi and holding delays as well as actual flight time.

    Did you push back on time and were you late on stand at the arrival airports?

    They are the questions that you need to ask!

    Having said all that yes it is frustrating to have to wait in a line of aircraft, but anyone flying out of LHR for example would be well used to that phemomenon.

    Dublin does however (as you rightly say) badly need the second runway and more stand space.
    I find taxi times at LHR very good actually, LGW is definitely worse in that regard but the bottle necks in DUB around the piers create a worse situation than either LHR or LGW


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    #821
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Locker10a wrote: »
    I find taxi times at LHR very good actually, LGW is definitely worse in that regard but the bottle necks in DUB around the piers create a worse situation than either LHR or LGW

    I can well remember extended taxi times from gates 78-90 at T1 in the evening peak period - it mightn’t be as bad nowadays.


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    #822
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    What’s with the massive delegation of aircraft in Dublin for incoming and outbound aircraft? Gatwick has a far more efficient system I believe?


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    #823
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,141 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Perhaps this is one for the infastructure thread?


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    #824
    LiamaDelta
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    LXFlyer wrote:
    Then you’re not late! You’ve arrived on time.


    That's true but only because the airlines are building in more time for waiting on the ground. It's frustrating and inefficient to quite often be waiting longer on the ground than the flight duration. The goal should be for minimal waiting/taxi time not being 'on time'.


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    #825
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    What’s with the massive delegation of aircraft in Dublin for incoming and outbound aircraft? Gatwick has a far more efficient system I believe?
    Gatwick and I believe Heathrow do separation of aircraft by minutes and not nautical miles ?! Anyway Gatwick are much more efficient with runway movements


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    #826
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,894 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Yes as a very regular passenger to both airports LGW seems to manage separation much more efficiently, both being single runway airports with terminals very close to the active .

    Is there some reason airspace management by the Dublin tower is like this ?


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    #827
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I remember reading on here that Gatwick can do something that Dublin can't. But I have no idea what that something is. I have spent 20+ minutes from pushback to runway at Gatwick many times, its not quite as bad as Dublin in my experience but it is boring.


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    #828
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I suspect you are referring to the concept used at both Heathrow and Gatwick by ATC, where the flights are given a "land after", which can be given before the preceding flight has cleared the active runway, which is not available to ATC at Dublin.

    The result is that tighter separation can be used between flights, making it possible to get more movements per hour on the runway.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #829
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    I suspect you are referring to the concept used at both Heathrow and Gatwick by ATC, where the flights are given a "land after", which can be given before the preceding flight has cleared the active runway, which is not available to ATC at Dublin.

    The result is that tighter separation can be used between flights, making it possible to get more movements per hour on the runway.

    Thats interesting. Is there any reason it can't be used in Dublin?


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    #830
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I don't know if IAA have ever even considered it, it puts more pressure on both the flight crew and the ATC controllers to get it right, the Americans use a similar concept, in that I've been "cleared to land" when still 15 miles out with a number of aircraft ahead of me on the approach, I guess it depends on the rules that are in place at the behest of the regulators.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #831
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Blut2 wrote: »
    Thats interesting. Is there any reason it can't be used in Dublin?

    Im lead to believe NATS in the UK pioneered technology for this system in order to reduce delays and maximise runway usage, I dont know the inside reason Dublin dont use this, or something similar, but it doesn't surprise me that they don't...


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    #832
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Locker10a wrote: »
    Im lead to believe NATS in the UK pioneered technology for this system in order to reduce delays and maximise runway usage, I dont know the inside reason Dublin dont use this, or something similar, but it doesn't surprise me that they don't...

    A simple google shows Dublin’s runway isn’t long enough to allow the application of this procedure. Previous lander needs to 2500m from the threshold which in Dublin is basically bravo 7.


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    #833
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    I don't know if IAA have ever even considered it, it puts more pressure on both the flight crew and the ATC controllers to get it right, the Americans use a similar concept, in that I've been "cleared to land" when still 15 miles out with a number of aircraft ahead of me on the approach, I guess it depends on the rules that are in place at the behest of the regulators.

    US ATC are big fans of clearing aircraft to perform "visual approahes" despite having numerous aircraft. Clearing for a visual approach allows for closer spacing and puts the onus of separation onto the flight crew.


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    #834
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Negative_G wrote: »
    US ATC are big fans of clearing aircraft to perform "visual approaches" despite having numerous aircraft. Clearing for a visual approach allows for closer spacing and puts the onus of separation onto the flight crew.

    But I'm sure you know all this already.

    Indeed, and when you're operating into a busy GA field, it can make life "interesting", especially if you get a mix of slow single engine training aircraft flying circuits, and high performance twins all using the same runway.

    Flying circuits in the twin was even more challenging, especially at places like Shoreham (UK) where there are restrictions on the approach profile because of high ground. I still remember one controllers remark when we called crosswind one day.... "Roger Fox Tango, No 4 for 23, but we both know that's going to change". It did, we'd already passed one C150 as we climbed out, we passed another as we turned downwind, and another on base, and it was a struggle to get the speed back enough to let the aircraft on the runway get off again before we crossed the threshold, the circuit speed of the Twin Com was double that of the C150, and the performance of the twin was such that it wasn't possible to slow it down too early because of single engine minimum speed constraints, with similar constraints applying to the climb out. Massive fun to fly it though.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #835
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    A fairly good way of checking is checking yourself by seeing if you can book it! A quick 30 second search has told me that it is year round, operating 5x weekly in the summer and 2x weekly in the winter.

    I know that...I was looking for some more official information, as I could find nothing. The reason is that Naples airport has a bit of a weird history with flights appearing and disappearing without notice, plus some really silly power struggles (e.g. for years Delta reserved a slot for a NY flight, but the flight itself never materialized).

    When Ryanair opened its initial routes, there was an agreement that all their flights should not be in direct competition with any of the existing services - the GESAC director went out publicly saying that, as they didn't want to lose airlines; The FR Dublin flight, in particular, was to be seasonal and "complementary" to the EI summer one.


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    #836
    Noxegon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    Figured general chat is the best place for this.

    At the moment (18:45 Friday) there are eleven aircraft queuing up for take off. The new runway can’t come soon enough.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



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    #837
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,141 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    I know that...I was looking for some more official information, as I could find nothing. The reason is that Naples airport has a bit of a weird history with flights appearing and disappearing without notice, plus some really silly power struggles (e.g. for years Delta reserved a slot for a NY flight, but the flight itself never materialized).

    When Ryanair opened its initial routes, there was an agreement that all their flights should not be in direct competition with any of the existing services - the GESAC director went out publicly saying that, as they didn't want to lose airlines; The FR Dublin flight, in particular, was to be seasonal and "complementary" to the EI summer one.

    Well, they don't really get more official than the flight schedules. If you can book it, they plan it to happen!

    In regards to not being in direct competition, the Ryanair flights don't operate at the same time I as the Aer Lingus flights, I'd presume that's the only way not to be in 'direct compeition' yet operate on the same route on any same day an Aer Lingus flight operates. Not sure how much these clauses really stand up though, it's a free European market and I doubt any agreement would go any further than Ryanairs own 'word'.


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    #838
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    There's a couple of discussions that ran to about 20 posts that are more appropriate to the runway/infrastructure thread, so they've been moved over there.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #839
    Slashermcguirk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Slashermcguirk


    Great to see the dublin - Hong Kong direct flights seem to be selling very well. Doesn’t surprise me and I hope the Beijing direct flights to dublin with Hainan are a big success too. Forgive the pun but dublin airport is flying it these days! Consistent strong growth and direct access to so many new destinations. Becoming a real hub particularly for transatlantic traffic

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/cathay-pacific-very-encouraged-by-advance-bookings-for-dublin-hong-kong-route-1.3473754?mode=amp


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    #840
    Sexual Chocolate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sexual Chocolate


    Yeah I'm book at the end of June in that route, really looking forward to it. As I booked through a travel agent can I still pick my seat 48hrs before departure ?


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    #841
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,686 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    ET to cut from 4 to 3 weekly with effect from end of month (late change)


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