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Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

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    #1172
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,862 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Trump: Decision on US Syria Response to Be 'Made Fairly Soon'

    He's been saying that for days.


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    #1173
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,699 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    It isn’t much of a conspiracy theory though. Basically western governments lie to go to war is the theory. One that’s more or less guaranteed to be true in any war of aggression you can think of.

    Yes.

    The greatest conspiracy pedalled is wars being fought for primarily humanitarian reasons, and yet as we see so many fall for it time and again, as long as it's being prosecuted by leaders they back. With this in mind some posters here tend to stay silent about the slaughter of civilians due to the complicity of those they back. The civilians killed in Gaza recently were to blame for their deaths because they had the temerity to protest against their occupiers. That's the sort of thing you would expect to hear from the apologist of dictators, yet its the same mantra trotted out by those who defend tyranny and human right abuses when it suits their right wing narrative. So their selective outrage about civilians being killed sounds most hollow.


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    #1174
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Trump:
    "Never said when an attack on Syria would take place. Could be very soon or not so soon at all! In any event, the United States, under my Administration, has done a great job of ridding the region of ISIS. Where is our “Thank you America?”"

    Well thanks for telling us nothing.

    They also did a great of arming ISIS.


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    #1175
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The 15 members of the UN security council would attribute blame, was in the Russian draft. Americans wanted an independent investigation so they could manipulate it same as they did for Libya.

    Russia wanted the investigation to not apportion blame, and for that to be left up to the Security Council so they could again use their veto to prevent that, should the investigation clearly show that Assad had used chemical weapons.

    Remember, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution precisely because it tried to apportion blame to Iran for arming the Houthis in Yemen and has vetoed all previous SC resolutions on Syria.


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    #1176
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    nacho libre wrote: »
    Yes.

    The greatest conspiracy pedalled is wars being fought for primarily humanitarian reasons, and yet as we see so many fall for it time and again, as long as it's being prosecuted by leaders they back. With this in mind some posters here tend to stay silent about the slaughter of civilians due to the complicity of those they back. The civilians killed in Gaza recently were to blame for their deaths because they had the temerity to protest against their occupiers. That's the sort of thing you would expect to hear from the apologist of dictators, yet its the same mantra trotted out by those who defend tyranny and human right abuses when it suits their right wing narrative. So their selective outrage about civilians being killed sounds most hollow.

    I agree.
    America wants to control resources. It does not give a crap about civilians being killed, if that was the case Saudi Arabia & Israel would be bombed back to the stone age.

    And it's not even that hard to figure out. Since the 1950's America has been installing dictators all over the place they think will useful to them. And you can get invaded for the smallest thing. Guatemala was destroyed for Land Reforms, because they wanted to give some poor peasents a bit of land.


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    #1177
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    I agree.
    America wants to control resources.

    Right let's look at the conspiracy theories about a pipe line that would have brought Cheaper oil and gas through the middle East into turkey and into Europe ,
    European states which are very much much dependent on russian gas , russia who's primary income is from gas and Oil sales to Europe ,

    Although the pipeline theory is only a conspiracy theory to blame america ,
    Who had most to lose if this pipeline went ahead .
    It wasn't America they can produce oil and gas themselves .

    So russia would have suffered the biggest losses income wise and economic wise from oil and gas if it came from the middle east .

    Yes ?
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1178
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    I agree.
    America wants to control resources. It does not give a crap about civilians being killed, if that was the case Saudi Arabia & Israel would be bombed back to the stone age.

    And it's not even that hard to figure out. Since the 1950's America has been installing dictators all over the place they think will useful to them. And you can get invaded for the smallest thing. Guatemala was destroyed for Land Reforms, because they wanted to give some poor peasents a bit of land.

    "If only more of today's military personnel would realize that they are being used by the owning elite's as a publicly subsidized capitalist goon squad.....I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street"
    -Smedley D. Butler, Major General, U.S. Marines


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    #1179
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    ArchXStanton wrote: »
    "If only more of today's military personnel would realize that they are being used by the owning elite's as a publicly subsidized capitalist goon squad.....I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street"
    -Smedley D. Butler, Major General, U.S. Marines

    Nothing compared to what the USSR inflicted on it's Iron Curtain satellite states to further 'their' interests.


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    #1180
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Gatling wrote: »
    Right let's look at the conspiracy theories about a pipe line that would have brought Cheaper oil and gas through the middle East into turkey and into Europe ,
    European states which are very much much dependent on russian gas , russia who's primary income is from gas and Oil sales to Europe ,

    Although the pipeline theory is only a conspiracy theory to blame america ,
    Who had most to lose if this pipeline went ahead .
    It wasn't America they can produce oil and gas themselves .

    So russia would have suffered the biggest losses income wise and economic wise from oil and gas if it came from the middle east .

    Yes ?

    I never mentioned a pipeline but sure whatever.


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    #1181
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Nothing compared to what the USSR inflicted on it's Iron Curtain satellite states to further 'their' interests.

    Give us the ol death toll there for the Iraq war,how about Vietnam? Mai Lai massacre? Sure fcuk it throw in Nagasaki and Hiroshima aswell while you're at it


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    #1182
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    ArchXStanton wrote: »
    "If only more of today's military personnel would realize that they are being used by the owning elite's as a publicly subsidized capitalist goon squad.....I spent 33 years in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street"
    -Smedley D. Butler, Major General, U.S. Marines

    Great quote.

    The American Mafia is basically capitalism in full swing.


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    #1183
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Nothing compared to what the USSR inflicted on it's Iron Curtain satellite states to further 'their' interests.

    I'm not sure about.
    American backed Chile killed 30,000 people and tortured & kidnapped thousands more. In El Salvador 90,000 people were killed in the conflict and about 70,000 next door during the Contra war. And those numbers are just peanuts compared to Korea, Vietnam & East Timor.


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    #1184
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Great quote.

    The American Mafia is basically capitalism in full swing.

    It's a corpocracy and has been for many years

    They rev the general public up for war under the guise of "protecting muh American freedamsss"

    Thank you for your service...


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    #1185
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    And those numbers are just peanuts compared to Korea,

    Remind us how that happened
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1186
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Nothing compared to what the USSR inflicted on it's Iron Curtain satellite states to further 'their' interests.

    Therein lies the rub. Of course the real trick is that the money men control both sides and always have. Banking was the first globalised industry and Lenin was well funded by western money. The communists were installed in power in 1917 and any opposition by the west to this was for show. Most of the wars in the 20th century were staged and Butler knew this. If you control the opposition it's pretty simple to justify anything to the public including spending trillions on the military.


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    #1187
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And russia demanding another UNSC meeting tomorrow to discuss American threats .

    Pathetic stuff
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1188
    gw80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭gw80


    pearcider wrote: »
    Therein lies the rub. Of course the real trick is that the money men control both sides and always have. Banking was the first globalised industry and Lenin was well funded by western money. The communists were installed in power in 1917 and any opposition by the west to this was for show. Most of the wars in the 20th century were staged and Butler knew this. If you control the opposition it's pretty simple to justify anything to the public including spending trillions on the military.
    Didn't russia recently expell a certain banking family and ban them from ever doing business in their country again,


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    #1189
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Statement from the British government war cabinet called today.


    "Cabinet 'agrees on the need to take action'

    Downing Street has just released a readout from this afternoon's Cabinet meeting.

    It says: "This afternoon Cabinet met and received an update on the attack against innocent civilians in Douma, Syria, on Saturday.

    "The Prime Minister said it was a shocking and barbaric act which killed up to 75 people, including children, in the most appalling and inhumane way.

    "Cabinet agreed that the Assad regime has a track record of the use of chemical weapons and it is highly likely that the regime is responsible for Saturday's attack.

    "The Prime Minister said it was a further example of the erosion of international law in relation to the use of chemical weapons, which was deeply concerning to us all.

    "Following a discussion in which every member present made a contribution, Cabinet agreed it was vital that the use of chemical weapons did not go unchallenged.

    "Cabinet agreed on the need to take action to alleviate humanitarian distress and to deter the further use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime.

    "Cabinet agreed the Prime Minister should continue to work with allies in the United States and France to coordinate an international"
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1190
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    Gatling wrote: »
    Statement from the British government war cabinet called today.


    "Cabinet 'agrees on the need to take action'

    Downing Street has just released a readout from this afternoon's Cabinet meeting.

    It says: "This afternoon Cabinet met and received an update on the attack against innocent civilians in Douma, Syria, on Saturday.

    "The Prime Minister said it was a shocking and barbaric act which killed up to 75 people, including children, in the most appalling and inhumane way.

    "Cabinet agreed that the Assad regime has a track record of the use of chemical weapons and it is highly likely that the regime is responsible for Saturday's attack.

    "The Prime Minister said it was a further example of the erosion of international law in relation to the use of chemical weapons, which was deeply concerning to us all.

    "Following a discussion in which every member present made a contribution, Cabinet agreed it was vital that the use of chemical weapons did not go unchallenged.

    "Cabinet agreed on the need to take action to alleviate humanitarian distress and to deter the further use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime.

    "Cabinet agreed the Prime Minister should continue to work with allies in the United States and France to coordinate an international"

    There's that "highly likely" again...

    You would think if they had intelligence and due to the serious nature of this accusation they would share it with the people they work for...the people


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    #1191
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,699 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    I agree.
    America wants to control resources. .

    It's not necessarily always about control of resources, it's to ensure hegemony- specifically to ensure the dollar is the reserve currency. I don't know about pipelines in Syria being the reason this time, but i know that it's very unlikely to be genuine concern about civilians dying. If it were we'd have seen interventions in the Congo and in places like Iraq in the 80s where chemical weapons were being used against civilians and Iranian soliders, but the west didn't do so because it did not suit the stratgetic interest at the time.


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    #1192
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    OPCW Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) team is on its way to Syria invited in by the Russians and Syrians. Start work on Saturday.


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    #1193
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    On the BBC they said the US have said they have now obtained body fluid samples from the attack and tests have been positive for chlorine but also for a nerve agent.

    And trump appears to have blinked.


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    #1194
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,075 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    nacho libre wrote: »
    It's not necessarily always about control of resources, it's to ensure hegemony- specifically to ensure the dollar is the reserve currency. I don't know about pipelines in Syria being the reason this time, but i know that it's very unlikely to be genuine concern about civilians dying. If it were we'd have seen interventions in the Congo and in places like Iraq in the 80s where chemical weapons were being used against civilians and Iranian soliders, but the west didn't do so because it did not suit the stratgetic interest at the time.
    Nothing to do with civilians dying in Syria or anywhere else.
    The problem is China, the biggest oil importer in the world is planning to dump the dollar by buying oil from Russia instead of Saudi Arabia and using the recently introduced Petro-Yuan. Not a conspiracy theory from some dodgy site as the usual suspects will claim, the Petro-Yuan is a fact and the US sees it a threat. Of course a puppet regime in the Kremlin would make the Petro-Yuan a non starter.https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-09/petro-yuan-newest-weapon-china-russia-iran-anti-usd-alliance


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    #1195
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    cnocbui wrote: »
    On the BBC they said the US have said they have now obtained body fluid samples from the attack and tests have been positive for chlorine but also for a nerve agent.

    And trump appears to have blinked.

    But the Russians said that it didn't happen. Are you trying to suggest that they would lie? Shame on you.


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    #1196
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    A source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told CNBC the U.S. was considering striking eight potential targets. Those targets include two Syrian airfields, a research centre and a chemical weapons facility. What are the other four targets not sure?


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    #1197
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    cnocbui wrote: »
    On the BBC they said the US have said they have now obtained body fluid samples from the attack and tests have been positive for chlorine but also for a nerve agent.

    And trump appears to have blinked.

    How they retrieve samples from an area controlled by the Syrian and Russian army?


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    #1198
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ArchXStanton wrote: »
    There's that "highly likely" again...

    You would think if they had intelligence and due to the serious nature of this accusation they would share it with the people they work for...the people

    Russia called a UN meeting for 10 am tomorrow and is allowing OPCW inspectors in so they can do an investigation.

    If Trump, Macron and May attack tonight they are breaking international rules.


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    #1199
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,575 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »

    If Trump, Macron and May attack tonight they are breaking international rules.

    Russia has no problem doing that so it shouldn't be an issue.

    I don't expect a strike tonight though given the chaos Trump is injecting in to preparations with his mindless statements on Twitter.


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    #1200
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Russia called a UN meeting for 10 am tomorrow and is allowing OPCW inspectors in so they can do an investigation.

    If Trump, Macron and May attack tonight they are breaking international rules.

    I don't expect them to strike tonight. I think Friday into Saturday or Saturday into Sunday. I'm also beginning to get the impression that the Americans are maybe taking a step back. I still think there will be military action, but rather than a sustained campaign it will probably be a bigger version of last year and be done and dusted in a few hours. I would also think the Russians will know in advance where not to be, I wouldn't want to be a Syrian soldier sharing a base with the Russians only to see their allies suddenly jump into their vans and leave.


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    #1201
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    How they retrieve samples from an area controlled by the Syrian and Russian army?
    The samples suggested the presence of both chlorine gas and an unnamed nerve agent, two officials said. Typically, such samples are obtained through hospitals and collected by U.S. or foreign intelligence assets on the ground. The officials said they were "confident" in the intelligence, though not 100 percent sure.

    Spies.


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